Dancer Archive
Thread: A Suggestion: Entertainment City Buff Capital of your server
Aynianu
Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:48 am
#27
Petronela wrote:
Been there, done that, got a T-shirt. A game I used to love over course of 4+ years became nothing but a never-ending schedule of raids. So, I ran away to SWG world and so far (with few momentarily lapses) I have been able to play this game while still remembering it’s only a game where I go to escape the reality, duties and schedules.
Deli'ah
Ugh i just had an Everquest flashback. 
Dovakic
Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:00 am
#28
I understand what your all saying, and I guess upon review this idea wouldn't work. I was referring to a city on our server, Zion, where theres a buff bot for both doctor and dancer buffs. Theres always people there hanging out and talking and getting buffs and going out to hunt stuff (bigger mobs, Nightsisters and such). I just thought that if a place like this could be staffed by live players, it would be just as effective, and imho, just as well used. It wouldnt stop all buffbots, but it might give you a place to do your thing w/out having to deal with them. I dunno. Whatever I guess.
Just be aware please, and dont take this as a flame even though it may sound like one: A lot of us aren't interested as heavily in the social aspect of this game. We don't want to come into the cantina after getting killed and have a chat about it, we want to get back out there asap and hunt more mobs, because thats what we enjoy...just like you enjoy being in the cantina and chatting with people and having a good time there. I'm sure your all aware of this, but a balance between these two is going have to be found, esp after macros are removed, to keep us all enjoying the game in the way we want to.
Just be aware please, and dont take this as a flame even though it may sound like one: A lot of us aren't interested as heavily in the social aspect of this game. We don't want to come into the cantina after getting killed and have a chat about it, we want to get back out there asap and hunt more mobs, because thats what we enjoy...just like you enjoy being in the cantina and chatting with people and having a good time there. I'm sure your all aware of this, but a balance between these two is going have to be found, esp after macros are removed, to keep us all enjoying the game in the way we want to.
Message Edited by Dovakic on 01-12-2005 11:00 AM
Message Edited by Dovakic on 01-12-2005 11:01 AM
PoetDancer
Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:13 pm
#29
Its great that you are trying to give us advice, Mulberry. But I still need to understand why do you even care about our needs? You have everything you want now via unattended buffbots. If you want a guaranteed live master musician and live master dancer on every world, then the bottom line is dear, you are going to have to give us a guaranteed audience 24/7 that is amicable to tipping us.
Is it unreasonable to ask you for that? Of course it is. That's why we aren't asking players to do it.
But what I'd really like to hear from you is not why you and others use buffbots. We already know why you do. The more interesting question I'd like to know is why do you even care about the needs of live entertainers. That's something I never seem to get from buffbot users who want to "help" us.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 01-12-2005 01:19 PM
Dovakic
Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:38 pm
#30
PoetDancer wrote:Its great that you are trying to give us advice, Mulberry. But I still need to understand why do you even care about our needs? You have everything you want now via unattended buffbots. If you want a guaranteed live master musician and live master dancer on every world, then the bottom line is dear, you are going to have to give us a guaranteed audience 24/7 that is amicable to tipping us.Is it unreasonable to ask you for that? Of course it is. That's why we aren't asking players to do it.But what I'd really like to hear from you is not why you and others use buffbots. We already know why you do. The more interesting question I'd like to know is why do you even care about the needs of live entertainers. That's something I never seem to get from buffbot users who want to "help" us.Message Edited by PoetDancer on 01-12-2005 01:19 PM
Its sad that your so jaded that you can't take a suggestion for what it is: an idea. I came in here with an idea from a buff consumers perspective, it was discussed, and the flaws in my idea were revealed to me. Simple as that. I now know it wont work.
Why do I care? I guess I'm not 100% sure. I'd like to see everyone get enjoyment out of the game in the way they choose to play it. I don't think I care now though. I'll keep using bots until they remove macros, then I'll figure out a way to continue using them, because of the, quite frankly, extremely callous and bordering on rude way I've been treated by the people here.
I had wondered why so many ppl flocked to buffbots, now I know. Thats all I'll say on the subject.
Message Edited by Dovakic on 01-12-2005 02:39 PM
gladiatory2k
Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:24 pm
#31
"You might be tied down 1 night a week, but otherwise you'd be free to do whatever"....
I just find it odd that,to get the most out of your playtime, you would suggest we sacrifice ours In a broad sense.
What if I don't want to be tied down 1 night a week? An obligation to be somewhere to provide a service has several names. "Job" and "Employment" arewhat come to mymind. How would you feel if, for some reason,your playtime that was tied down 1 night a week forsome reason and that 1 night a week was the only way to earn credits and good XP?
That is the point, that is the reason there are buff bots.....no one wants to be tied down for one night a week. Just as combat profs don't want to be force to go hunting for an ATK entertainer for an hour when they only have 3 hours to play. We all have our own reasons to play.
With the recent WOW/EQ purges a lot of people have resorted to buying new characters in order to provide for themselves what they used to be able to get from others. It is just the way things happen. When you are on the west coast and a majority of the players on your server are on the east coast, then a buff bot will be a logical answer. Or if you are in australia, Japan, Germany, whatever, you play at odd hours and your only choice is a buff bot.
I understand what Mul is asking. maybe if someone knew where an ATK was at all times, then it would eliminate an hour of scouring the galaxy for a live entertainer at 5 am EST. And if a guild needs access to a mind buff 24 hours a day, someone in the guild will make a buffbot. This gives them an advantage over the other side or at least keeps them on level footing. Any serious PVP requires an entertainer buff. Battles can be fast and over in a matter of minutes. taking the time to look for a live entertainer can mean you may miss the fight entirely. PVPers are helped most by Entertainer buffs. PvEers can go without a mind buff in most cases. A mixture of Ahrisa, brandy, and muon in emergencies makes the advantage of a mind buff almost overkill. In order to be the most use, make yourself available people that are most benefitted by mind buffs, you would almost need to be at theed cantina, or in Coronet ready to buff at a moments notice. Yeah that seems like a job, but so is running a decent crafting or mining business in the game or going on missions with 6000 credit missions made every 5 minutes. Yes Entertainer can seem like a job, but so can a lot of things in this game. Do you think the Combat professions don't have to dedicate one night a week to money grinding on Dantooine for 3 hours just to be able to affrod the weapons, foods, stims they need in battle? How about a crafter that has to go out, track down resources for 3 weeks, just to make something that is only slightly better than the guy in the tent next to him?
Our server population seems almost decimated by the recent exodus. I suspect it is happening to all other servers as well. Buff bots will be going soon.....but pretty much only because that $15 a month is now going to go to WOW, or Everquest, or even Matrix. This isn't a time to beat down a suggestion to improve the availability of a live entertainer.
You can flame awaybecause i do not know what I am talking about. But I used to play a musician. My alt is a 0421 musician and I did all of it ATK. I remember sitting in coronet for 3 hours at a time waiting until someone in the group at that cantina got back to their computer long enough to invite me into their group. I remember having more fun talking to those entertainers that WERE at their computers and felt chatty then any of the customers I was keeping from having their version of fun in the game. I know what it is like to wake up with drool rolling down my chin and key board indents in my head because I fell asleep to StarWars3. I also know that in order for me to provide a service, I really didn't need too much money.....and now with the introduction of JTL I have NO need for money. I went to my alt to understand the entertainers better and know what it really takes to be helpful to players around. I just wanted to add my two cents, i know you all know better than I what is needed to save dancer/musician from just being an automaton's profession.
Devil_Tiger
Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:00 pm
#32
gladiatory2k wrote:
I know what it is like to wake up with drool rolling down my chin and key board indents in my head because I fell asleep to StarWars3.
LOL, I've woken up to pretty much the same thing a couple of times
Ikewe
Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:39 pm
#33
I have no problem with being "tied down" for some period of time *IF* and here's the big if, you can make the pay worth it. Yes other professions have times when it feels like a job but the vast majority of them are doing some task that rewards them with credits or loot. Combat professions spend hours "grinding" but they aren't relying on someone else to tip them the pay. This is one of the prime reasons I gave up full time staffing of a cantina. I couldn't make any money doing it. It's rare for people to tip for healing these days and with the players choosing a vending machine for their buffs... well picket missions or Janta missions always pay. The excuse is always "I don't have time to search for an entertainer." Okay I'll accept that, but here's my question, how are you searching that's taking so darn long? I've never once not responded instantly to a tell asking me for a buff. With the ability to use my own ship for transport my travel time has been drastically reduced. When I am dancing in a cantina I now always use a /register command. My character is always searchable. I monitor the ent channel all the time. So which of these methods have you used that has resulted in such a delay that you were forced to forego your planned activity? If you tell us what's taking up the time, we can probably address that to make finding us not just easier but also faster. I shouldn't have to be glued, 23/7into one spot in order for you to get what you want fast. Before the vending machine was installed in the Mining Outpost on Dantooine, I never once heard people say "it takes too long to find an entertainer". They would complain that they had to travel to X planet to see the entertainer if one wasn't at the Outpost. Which is why so many of us began to regularly set up there. So now the complaint isn't that you have to travel but that it takes too long. So help us fix that. Tell us what about the current search abilities takes so much time and we'll see if we can improve that.
I have tried to remain calm and avoid getting angry in this discussion. But when you come here and say "I'm always going to use a buffbot no matter what because you people got angry" then it makes it very difficult to try to have an even-tempered discussion.
You think you're game play is difficult because you can't get a mind buff 23/7 and you need one in order to have fun? Well heck trygoing all darn week not making a single credit and have people treat you like crap simply because you aren't a vending machine. The dang ticket collector at the Starport gets more respect than I do and it makes you wait 5 minutes before you can travel to another planet. I only make you wait 3 mins and 20 seconds, yet some how I have become the scourge of the galaxy who must be stopped at all costs. grrr..... okay I'm starting to foam at the mouth and before someone breaks out the tranquilizer gun I'd better just tuck tail and get my dancing shoes on and go do my best to provide non-stop, smiling, but non-interactive buffs and healing on command.
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
Isleh
Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:47 pm
#34
gladiatory2k wrote:
"You might be tied down 1 night a week, but otherwise you'd be free to do whatever"....
I just find it odd that,to get the most out of your playtime, you would suggest we sacrifice ours In a broad sense.
What if I don't want to be tied down 1 night a week? An obligation to be somewhere to provide a service has several names. "Job" and "Employment" arewhat come to mymind. How would you feel if, for some reason,your playtime that was tied down 1 night a week forsome reason and that 1 night a week was the only way to earn credits and good XP?
That is the point, that is the reason there are buff bots.....no one wants to be tied down for one night a week. Just as combat profs don't want to be force to go hunting for an ATK entertainer for an hour when they only have 3 hours to play. We all have our own reasons to play.
With the recent WOW/EQ purges a lot of people have resorted to buying new characters in order to provide for themselves what they used to be able to get from others. It is just the way things happen. When you are on the west coast and a majority of the players on your server are on the east coast, then a buff bot will be a logical answer. Or if you are in australia, Japan, Germany, whatever, you play at odd hours and your only choice is a buff bot.
I understand what Mul is asking. maybe if someone knew where an ATK was at all times, then it would eliminate an hour of scouring the galaxy for a live entertainer at 5 am EST. And if a guild needs access to a mind buff 24 hours a day, someone in the guild will make a buffbot. This gives them an advantage over the other side or at least keeps them on level footing. Any serious PVP requires an entertainer buff. Battles can be fast and over in a matter of minutes. taking the time to look for a live entertainer can mean you may miss the fight entirely. PVPers are helped most by Entertainer buffs. PvEers can go without a mind buff in most cases. A mixture of Ahrisa, brandy, and muon in emergencies makes the advantage of a mind buff almost overkill. In order to be the most use, make yourself available people that are most benefitted by mind buffs, you would almost need to be at theed cantina, or in Coronet ready to buff at a moments notice. Yeah that seems like a job, but so is running a decent crafting or mining business in the game or going on missions with 6000 credit missions made every 5 minutes. Yes Entertainer can seem like a job, but so can a lot of things in this game. Do you think the Combat professions don't have to dedicate one night a week to money grinding on Dantooine for 3 hours just to be able to affrod the weapons, foods, stims they need in battle? How about a crafter that has to go out, track down resources for 3 weeks, just to make something that is only slightly better than the guy in the tent next to him?
Our server population seems almost decimated by the recent exodus. I suspect it is happening to all other servers as well. Buff bots will be going soon.....but pretty much only because that $15 a month is now going to go to WOW, or Everquest, or even Matrix. This isn't a time to beat down a suggestion to improve the availability of a live entertainer.
You can flame awaybecause i do not know what I am talking about. But I used to play a musician. My alt is a 0421 musician and I did all of it ATK. I remember sitting in coronet for 3 hours at a time waiting until someone in the group at that cantina got back to their computer long enough to invite me into their group. I remember having more fun talking to those entertainers that WERE at their computers and felt chatty then any of the customers I was keeping from having their version of fun in the game. I know what it is like to wake up with drool rolling down my chin and key board indents in my head because I fell asleep to StarWars3. I also know that in order for me to provide a service, I really didn't need too much money.....and now with the introduction of JTL I have NO need for money. I went to my alt to understand the entertainers better and know what it really takes to be helpful to players around. I just wanted to add my two cents, i know you all know better than I what is needed to save dancer/musician from just being an automaton's profession.
Lets start with three simple phrases.
"Hi, do you offer entertainer buffs regularly?"
"Do you mind if I add you to my friends list so I know when your on?"
"I'll send you a tell next time I need a buff and to make sure you are not busy."
Once you build up a list of entertainers, it will probably take you as long to find a entertainer buffing or willing to buff as it would to read this reply to this post. Please also note that you can add comments in you friends list. "Master Musician" and/or "Master Dancer" would be a handy note. Also, notes like the timesthat personregularly offer buffs are good.
One of the biggest problems I think is that you need adancer & musician to do the primary and secondary mind stats. One of the quickest things SOE can do to help people get full mind buffs faster is let Musician and Dancer each do primary and secondary mind stats.
Devil_Tiger
Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:00 am
#35
<start angry rant transmission>
People that flock to buff bots have the attitude that you have - all entertainers need to be master dancers/master musicians and be online 24/7 to provide you with a service that you don't want to pay for. Is it so hard to ask you to repesct our gaming choice to want to an active member of the game? apparently it is. It is people like you that keep buff bots active. It is people like you that turn young aspiring entertainers into a "/macro start $15 a month AFK routine to make other people's gaming experience fun while I do nothing but make sure Windows doesn't crash on me" buff bots. You came in with a half thought through, porr idea and then got mad beacuse the ATK entertaining community pointed out how this absurd idea only improved YOUR gameplay and put entertainers into a second very poorly paid 8 hour a night job to make your kind happy. You want to improve our gameplay experience, try asking a live entertainer if he/she would be able to provide a mind buff for you and then actually pay him/her for the service. I have a friend that is a master dancer and musician,and even though she is in another guild, she is always happy to provide a buff anytime to anyone. And because I hate the fact that poeple usually don't pay forthose services, I make sure she stays well equipped with rifles, armor,shared loot, and tips.
<stop angry rant transmission>
Dovakic
Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:18 am
#36
I'm sorry....I was going to leave this as is, but...well...my response will speak for itself.
btw...paragraphs are your friends.
Devil_Tiger wrote:People that flock to buff bots have the attitude that you have - all entertainers need to be master dancers/master musicians and be online 24/7 to provide you with a service that you don't want to pay for The same goes for doctors, so dont give me that crap. Is it so hard to ask you to repesct our gaming choice to want to an active member of the game? apparently it is. No. It isnt. My idea was to try and figure out a way for both parties to get what they want. It is people like you that keep buff bots active. It is people like you that turn young aspiring entertainers into a "/macro start $15 a month AFK routine to make other people's gaming experience fun while I do nothing but make sure Windows doesn't crash on me" buff bots. And its people like you who make people like me go to the buffbots. You came in with a half thought through, porr idea and then got mad beacuse the ATK entertaining community pointed out how this absurd idea only improved YOUR gameplay and put entertainers into a second very poorly paid 8 hour a night job to make your kind happy I dont think I ever got mad. I, atleast IMHO, remained very calm and made every effort I could not to flame. The same cannont be said about you. Was my idea half thought out? Possibily..heck even probably. I'm not an entertainer. I'm sorry I dont know your game mechanics and play style well enough to be allowed to enter your forums and present an idea.. You want to improve our gameplay experience, try asking a live entertainer if he/she would be able to provide a mind buff for you and then actually pay him/her for the service I've gotten buffs from live entertainers many times. Every single time, I've tipped them. I don't often tip people for healing my wounds, but as a doctor, I cant remmeber the last time anyones tipped me for healing their's either. Does it make it right? No, but thats the way it is. . I have a friend that is a master dancer and musician,and even though she is in another guild, she is always happy to provide a buff anytime to anyone. And because I hate the fact that poeple usually don't pay for those services, I make sure she stays well equipped with rifles, armor, shared loot, and tips. Thats very nice of you. What exactly did I do to you again to deserve this kind of response? Offer an idea that you didnt like? So sorry, I'll be sure never to again.
btw...paragraphs are your friends.
Message Edited by Dovakic on 01-12-2005 03:21 PM
Else-Whira
Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:31 am
#38
Which of the entertainers posting their opinions in this thread did you go out and watch perform?
Do you even know who any of these people are or what they do or are you just upset that they don't agree with your take on how they play the game?
No one posting in this thread made you seek out a buff bot. You chose to do that yourself. I understand that you don't like to socialize or tip someone for entertainment. You certainly aren't alone in that reguard. If you really are the slightest bit interested in seeing a live dancer get some enjoyment from the game, take a couple minutes of your busy game time and just sit and really watch one of us dance. Interact a little bit ( nothing fancy, just an occaisional /smile /cheer or /clap) After you get healed up just throw out a /tip to that person you interacted with. Wala you just improved an ATK dancer's day more than you could possibly understand.
If you really want to make us happy, hang around after you get healed up and tell us a little about your day or come by before you go out fighting and ask us for a mind buff and again throw out a /clap or a /cheer while we animate. It won't cause you to lose faction or xp, you won't have your equipment lose any condition.. Who knows... Maybe you'll even make a friend.
Do you even know who any of these people are or what they do or are you just upset that they don't agree with your take on how they play the game?
No one posting in this thread made you seek out a buff bot. You chose to do that yourself. I understand that you don't like to socialize or tip someone for entertainment. You certainly aren't alone in that reguard. If you really are the slightest bit interested in seeing a live dancer get some enjoyment from the game, take a couple minutes of your busy game time and just sit and really watch one of us dance. Interact a little bit ( nothing fancy, just an occaisional /smile /cheer or /clap) After you get healed up just throw out a /tip to that person you interacted with. Wala you just improved an ATK dancer's day more than you could possibly understand.
If you really want to make us happy, hang around after you get healed up and tell us a little about your day or come by before you go out fighting and ask us for a mind buff and again throw out a /clap or a /cheer while we animate. It won't cause you to lose faction or xp, you won't have your equipment lose any condition.. Who knows... Maybe you'll even make a friend.
Shaizann
Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:32 am
#39
Mulberry, I certainly appreciate that you came to us with an idea to help. We're a pretty jaded crowd though, I know. You get that way afterover a year of bots, grinders, and afk(oh my!). I would hate that you would take the reactions here and judge us by it as a whole. It is an unfair generalization.
I'm also glad you can see it from our side and realize what the flaws are in your proposal. At base the big issue is no matter what sort of scedule we would set up to man the Entertainment district we could (and would) get surplanted the second someone plopped their bot there. It would be somewhat like the buff house you described previously, but on a grander scale, and just as much a detractor (perhaps more so) than the current bots. Even I personally know it is difficult to see a post from a non-Ent as a help. We have had so many folks come through and blast us to pieces for wanting them to come to us for a buff over the bot. Unfortunately, as you have pointed out, it being the 'right thing to do' is not enough. This is 2005 after all, and the combat folk are much more concerned with getting out there to kill stuff than slowing down to talk to us a moment or two.
I think one of the fundamental issues is that us and the combat folk both want totally different things from our gaming experience. They would like to get out there and kill things as fast as possible with the best weapons. Looking for the maximum reward with minimum of risk or time investment. That is partially why there is so much discussion about looking for the best template for fighting and all of that. People are looking for the "one way" to fight to go forth and become uber. Social folk are, of course, looking to talk and enjoy the interaction. About the only optimizing I think about is how to best combine flo's for smooth sounding music or looking dance. Aside from that I just want to hang out in the cantina and enjoy it. I don't mind buffing at all and I don't think I've ever turned down more than a handful of people for one in all the time I've played.
I understand your point that the combat folk don't want to talk to us at length, necesarrily, but I do not think it is unreasonable to ask for a modicurm of politeness when asking for a buff. I also do not think it is too much to ask to speak to us like we're people instead of running up to us and throwing up an invite or rudely stating 'BUFF PLZ'. Perhaps I'm just old fashioned, but I just don't see why it's hard to show a little respect both ways.
The game mechanics of buffing have thrown our two player archetypes together in sortof like the 'MMOG Odd Couple' style experience. The combat folk circumvent the appearantly painful notion of talking to us directly us by using atomatons that have done much to harm our inteneded play area, the cantina. I hope that after the recursive macros are dealt their death blow that we can find a middle ground you were speaking of in your initial post. I really want to find it too, and I think I know a good way for it to happen.
I agree with what Panthu's thoughts on what is the general way to fix the issue for both parties. Entertianer Healing/Buffing needs to be fun, and I mean fun for both player types. Combat folk need to have something to see about going to a Cantina that is not just something they 'have to do' they should have a reason to go there because first and foremost it's fun. Secondly, it fulfills a game mechanic demand. I liked her idea of a min-game for example. Let's say you got to play a quick round of tetris while you got buffed or maybe even soemthing as simple as Tic-Tac-Toe. My desired end state would be one such that one of the combat folk come in intending to get there 3:20 buff and get out and wind up staying for 10 minutes or more because it was a cool experience.
Now, entertainers are in a position to do some of this now by putting on shows and organized things in cantinas and what have you. Things thatcan be quite entertaining. It just becomes increasingly difficult to do in the presence of a sea of zombies. It's a viscious cycle.
Ok, I've rambled enough, I hope you get that I would rather you not walk out of our forum on a sour note and know that while a good many of us appreciate any effort to help, that it is quite hard to seesuch offerings as helpthese days, and becomes more so with time.