Dancer Archive

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Tralmek wrote:

• We brought up our issues with AFK macrotainers (also known as LAMers back in the day) as early as July 2003. The Devs stood impassively by, doing nothing.


• They Devs introduced professions as the way to open a FSC slot. The LAMer population grew, and themurmoring about the plague of AFK macroing Entertainment professions became a roar. The Devscode inbuffing. ((A process which, by the way, everyone managed to live without up until then. That's right, mind buffs aren't needs, they're wants.)


• The Devs come up with the bright idea of handing out holocrons like candy. Now everyone has a holocron, and eventually a good portion of them come through and AFK macro their way through the Entertainment professions. Outrage from the Entertainmentcommunity is huge at this point, but our pleas land on deaf...err...DEV ears.


• Some enterprising LAMer enters cantina left with the idea of AFK'ing buffs though the further abuse of recursive macros.

This is the day Live Entertaining really took a turn for the worse. Our style of play had been under attack before, but most of us were making it through, assuming there had to be a light at the end of this long dark tunnel. When buffbots started showing up in our cantinas, everywhere, a lot of people felt it was the end of Entertaining. They were making their way through the plague of AFK macrotainers, but when it became obvious that there were ways to AFK macro absolutely everything in the Entertainment professions, a good portion of the Entertainment community had its soul crushed.

Sure, a lot of people left early-on when the AFK macrotainers first showed up in the cantinas, even when the LAMershad the respect to leave themselves in a back corner and not spam. More people left when the cantinas began to fill with AFK macrotainers hologrinding their way to Jedi, but the real exodus of Live Entertainers happened when buffbots started showing up. Now, Live Entertainers are looked down upon as being nothing better than NPC's, because the Entertainment professions are seen as being entirely AFK. There is no respect in most players' minds for Entertainers, because there is no respect for our time or our services because AFK macrobots can perform identical services with no time committment of their own, and they can do it 23/7.

Now, it is apparent that the bottom has just fallen out of rock bottom, because we, the Live Entertainment community have been accused of causing the very horrors we have been fighting for more than a year now. Has the outlook on Entertainers really become so perverted that people actually believe that Live Entertainerscaused the AFK'ers? That WE are responsible for the buffbots and the lag, the plague that is AFK macrotainingand all the other things we have been fighting against? That's sad. No, that's absolutely pitiful.

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Ok let me clarify what I was trying to explain since apparently you have completely misunderstood my point and motivation of my post. I love the entertainer profession and what I meant by saying that entertainers made this bed was simply this:

You can only find AFK entertainers - that is why everyone uses them and doesnt have regard for the actual performers that put time into the craft. Entertainers that are truly wanting to explore any of the performing art professions need to become more prevelant in the game. If you give them a reason to not have to spend the extra $15.00 on a second character then they wont. If you give them a reason to spend credits/time with your performer then they will. My only intent by my post is to say that if true entertainers want the AFK buff bots to stop taking the dignaty and spotlight from their profession then they need to be more visible and available. So if they want the AFK/buff bots to disappear so bad when are they going to appear? Don't get me wrong, I love being an entertainer, but too be honest there are very few players who actually play their entertainer. They sit AFK out of bordom or spending everylog in moment in the same cantina surrounded by AFK'ers (no wonder no one notices you!) I am simply saying take entertainers back out into the cities, have fun, host events, visit player cities you have never been to or love to visit. All I am saying is that performers that are truly performers need to start making themselves apparent if anyone of the entertainer class players would like buff bots to go away. You cannot expect everyone to come to you in life, sometimes you need to seek out what you want.

1. People that I have talked to prefer a live ENT over a afk ENT.


2. Those that responded to my poll would rather take chef BE food than get a buff from a buffbot.


3. Just over half of the people that visit buffbots don't tip and not one has admitted to tipping over 5k (I on the other hand during that time received numerous tips for buffs in the 10k+ range - again proving that people prefer ATK ENTs)


4. Those that admitted using AFK ENTs/buffbots stated convienence. They just wanted their buffs or their BF heal without searching for a live ENT.


5. Very few use the search option in the game or even attempt to make friends with live ENTs.


6. Also, some individuals will watch or get buffs from ENTs of their own faction or a known neutral. Meaning if there is an AFK ENT of their faction but no ATK, but their are ATK of the opposing faction, they will watch the AFK ENT of their faction. (I found that interesting and a bit more common than I thought it would be).


7. Another reason AFK ENTs are watch, is the time that the person is on. There are noATK ENTs on during their time.


8. Those that actively seek ENTs tend to seek ENTs of their faction (or confirmed neutral).

During the six days in the cantina and competing against a buff bot, I disappeared for aday to do some target practicing on mountain squills. I showed back up to the cantina and the buffbot happened to be there. When she came ATK, we talked for a brief bit before she went AFK. She mentioned that she made 1 million credits in 5 days. What I didn't mention that during the 12 hours that I was there for each of those five days I made 750k which about 35% of that was just general tips and only one person didn't tip me for a buff (who was promptly placed on my ignore). I will admit, it was boring as hell sitting ATK during that time, though every ENT that had a macro going with 'tip me' or 'watch me' etc was promptly placed on my ignore list (needless to say, this master dancer wasn't training them and of course, I don't need the AP).

During that time, I made friends with a few patrons and I encourage them to place me on their friends list and if they needed a buff, shoot me a tell and if it was convienent, I would meet them somewhere.

I have mix feelings on the removal of recursive macro since it makes things easier for me to talk in the cantina with the patrons, engage in tells, group talk (which was mostly dead), and talk on other channels. If it was removed, guess I would need to eliminate a few of those channels while performing. If the recursive macro is removed, the buffbots and AFK ENTS will be gone, but I do have concern for those time period that there might not be an ATK ENT.

Those that state that live ENTs would return, I hope you are right, but after talking to some live ENTs, most have a combat profession since they do not like living in a cantina. There are not that many live ENTs that spend all or most their time in a cantina for others. I would only proposed to the Devs that they place NPC ENTs in a couple of NPC cities whose ent healing would change every two weeks from ent healing I - IV. PCs would deposit credits to the NPC ENT for a certain amount of time to watch/listen to get their BF healed. I won't argue for the ability for them to buff. This solution would probably have some resistence from true live ENTs and I would expect that from them, but can anyone else provide a true viable option for people to get BF healing that is reasonable (I don't think sitting in a medical facility to get 3 BF healed every 10 minutes are being reasonable) for those time period that there may not be a live ENT.I would more than willing to listen to it. Maybe provide medics in medical facilities also that would do the same.

My overall experience in the cantina those 6 days were mixed. I felt extremely discouraged at the condition our profession has fallen into. I found ways to adjust but at times it seems like I had to work more than have fun. At one point, I was wondering if I got a big big big wookiee to plant themself on the buffbot if that would be a form of grief? When I moved on, I made a few friends and have a couple that stated when it came to my exit quest from the village that they would help me out.

Well, long post and I hear those mountain squills are causing some trouble. Time to grab my krayt laser rifle and kill them without armor or buffs (but never without brandy and ahrisa).

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Naish wrote:
Wow, that is one hell of a book you wrote there.

Everyone on my server loves my bot. I have a group of 20 using me on a regular basis and they all love me. I have had 3 complaints from other entertainers in the 3 months that I have been runing my service.

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Leave it to you, Naish, to contribute intelligently to the debate.

/sarcasm off

All I have to say is, "well, duh!" Of course, people love your bot. That's the problem.

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Shasi wrote:

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You can only find AFK entertainers - that is why everyone uses them and doesnt have regard for the actual performers that put time into the craft. Entertainers that are truly wanting to explore any of the performing art professions need to become more prevelant in the game. If you give them a reason to not have to spend the extra $15.00 on a second character then they wont. If you give them a reason to spend credits/time with your performer then they will. My only intent by my post is to say that if true entertainers want the AFK buff bots to stop taking the dignaty and spotlight from their profession then they need to be more visible and available. So if they want the AFK/buff bots to disappear so bad when are they going to appear? Don't get me wrong, I love being an entertainer, but too be honest there are very few players who actually play their entertainer. They sit AFK out of bordom or spending everylog in moment in the same cantina surrounded by AFK'ers (no wonder no one notices you!) I am simply saying take entertainers back out into the cities, have fun, host events, visit player cities you have never been to or love to visit. All I am saying is that performers that are truly performers need to start making themselves apparent if anyone of the entertainer class players would like buff bots to go away. You cannot expect everyone to come to you in life, sometimes you need to seek out what you want.

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You said you read this whole thread, so you should know exactly why you can only find afk "entertainers." These people for one, are not real entertainers. But, beyond that, the reason you don't find the live entertainers in the Cantinas anymore is because the afk'ers drove us out. You yourself said how boring it was being live there. That's what we all feel most of the time. The afk'ers took away our playground, they took away our business, they took away our livelihoods. It wasn't always like that. Sure, there were afk'ers from the beginning. But, it used to be that there were more live players. But, then with the hologrind and the afk'ers came en masse and totally ruined the atmosphere of the Cantinas, more and more of us began to leave the Cantina, the profession, or the game entirely. THAT is why we aren't there. Remove the afktainment and the buffbots, and we will most assuredly return.

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Hvzeda wrote:

1. People that I have talked to prefer a live ENT over a afk ENT.


2. Those that responded to my poll would rather take chef BE food than get a buff from a buffbot.


3. Just over half of the people that visit buffbots don't tip and not one has admitted to tipping over 5k (I on the other hand during that time received numerous tips for buffs in the 10k+ range - again proving that people prefer ATK ENTs)


4. Those that admitted using AFK ENTs/buffbots stated convienence. They just wanted their buffs or their BF heal without searching for a live ENT.


5. Very few use the search option in the game or even attempt to make friends with live ENTs.


6. Also, some individuals will watch or get buffs from ENTs of their own faction or a known neutral. Meaning if there is an AFK ENT of their faction but no ATK, but their are ATK of the opposing faction, they will watch the AFK ENT of their faction. (I found that interesting and a bit more common than I thought it would be).


7. Another reason AFK ENTs are watch, is the time that the person is on. There are noATK ENTs on during their time.


8. Those that actively seek ENTs tend to seek ENTs of their faction (or confirmed neutral).

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It's so interesting to me that so many people claim to come on these boards and say that they would prefer a live entertainer, or answer surveys and say the same thing. Yet, in the entire 7 hours I was there in Coronet, once the buffbots arrived, I did not have ONE SINGLE PERSON seek out a live entertainer. In fact, I was pretty much ignored. So...um, where were all these people who say they prefer a live entertainer? Do they even take a mere 30 seconds and look around the Cantina for one? I doubt they do. They may say they prefer it, but, do they make even the teensiest bit of effort to validate what they say?

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Drygo wrote:

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Hvzeda wrote:

1. People that I have talked to prefer a live ENT over a afk ENT.


2. Those that responded to my poll would rather take chef BE food than get a buff from a buffbot.


3. Just over half of the people that visit buffbots don't tip and not one has admitted to tipping over 5k (I on the other hand during that time received numerous tips for buffs in the 10k+ range - again proving that people prefer ATK ENTs)


4. Those that admitted using AFK ENTs/buffbots stated convienence. They just wanted their buffs or their BF heal without searching for a live ENT.


5. Very few use the search option in the game or even attempt to make friends with live ENTs.


6. Also, some individuals will watch or get buffs from ENTs of their own faction or a known neutral. Meaning if there is an AFK ENT of their faction but no ATK, but their are ATK of the opposing faction, they will watch the AFK ENT of their faction. (I found that interesting and a bit more common than I thought it would be).


7. Another reason AFK ENTs are watch, is the time that the person is on. There are noATK ENTs on during their time.


8. Those that actively seek ENTs tend to seek ENTs of their faction (or confirmed neutral).

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It's so interesting to me that so many people claim to come on these boards and say that they would prefer a live entertainer, or answer surveys and say the same thing. Yet, in the entire 7 hours I was there in Coronet, once the buffbots arrived, I did not have ONE SINGLE PERSON seek out a live entertainer. In fact, I was pretty much ignored. So...um, where were all these people who say they prefer a live entertainer? Do they even take a mere 30 seconds and look around the Cantina for one? I doubt they do. They may say they prefer it, but, do they make even the teensiest bit of effort to validate what they say?

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I only reported what people state. I have no way to monitor what people do in the game. And yes, I have had people come in and look around. I've observed the behavior. I seen patrons come and ask "Is there a live entertainer," to which I always reply with a "Yes" and if they ask again, I respond with a "yes" in a tell. I do know of people that refuse to get services for a buffbot even it they know it means they will be at a disadvantage in PvP. I have had people ask in a tell if I was there and then ask me for a buff after I responded and their were 2 BUFFBOTS in the cantina. So there are people that prefer live ENTs. There are some people with integrity and principles. I'm sorry your one day in Coronet was terrible and that was why I did 6 straight days, 12 hours straight in the Coronet cantina to get a better feel of the game and views towards buffbots and AFK ENTS.

My short survey was a convienent sample thus not representive of the server nor of players in this game, that is why I never made a generalization. And where did I state that many people claimed this? I even stated is was a short lived survey due to the moderators removing my thread.

Wow, that is one hell of a book you wrote there.

Everyone on my server loves my bot. I have a group of 20 using me on a regular basis and they all love me. I have had 3 complaints from other entertainers in the 3 months that I have been runing my service.