Dancer Archive

TailorElek,

Please forgive me if this sounds too candid. But not everyone who dances and wares what they wear is doing so because they feel forced to. I dance what I dance and I wear what I wear because it is how I choose to express myself. You can take your condescending self-righteous ness somewhere else. This is a teen game. If you are offended, find another game. If you are comfortable with your small children's exposure, be a responsible parent and don't play the game.

Not everyone shares your horror or aversion to skin, the body, or computer generated represnetations of human beings. Not everyone is uncomfortable with eroticism (and actually, I would think a great many people like myself really have a hard time with the idea that anyone would actually find computer pixels erotic, but oh well).

So, you certianly can control yourself, but you cannot control anyone else. You go right on not tipping the people you don't want to tip, and I'll go right on dancing how I want to dance and wearing what I want to wear.

PS -- which by the way is usually stripped pantst and a reinforced leather shirt. But I just wanted to go on record to say taht if I decide that today I feel the need to wear a bikini or a flesh wrap, I will without any deep concern about your personal feelings on the matter.

Sel

Hello TailorElek,

I did note that you advertised your services on another thread in the Dancer Forum. I think one might safely assume that you would like our business? I'm no business woman, but I think it would likely be bad for business to encourage a boycott of your own customers.

Oh for goodness sake.. If you don't like them, you have every right to 'boycott' dancers who wear them, but don't assume every dancer that has them is some sort of trollop.

I have a fleshwrap. I HAD an exotic leotard that I gave to a friend because of the bugs with it .. I also have one of nearly all of the gowns that are available, a large selection of pleated skirts, and a great deal of outfits that are far more elegant than sexy. erm.. yes.. there *are* in fact some master tailor and lower items that I do not yet own <g>

At any rate, the point is this - do not judge someone's personality or dance style by what they wear. I change clothes often while I perform, and yes, *gasp* I do wear the fleshwrap on occasion.. that, however, does not imply anything further than it being ONE piece in my rather extensive wardrobe.

And I'm sorry, but I'm quite tired of hearing "do it for the children" in regards to clothing, erotic dance a'la Diamond or anything else. Kids aren't supposed to be playing this game, and if a parent has no problem with a game that includes racism, classism, elitism, slavery, murder, and animal abuse, not to mention weapons, violence and gore, then I most certainly will not feel bad for wearing an outfit that covers each and every bit of my characters more precious parts.

Quoted - "

Mass murder in game is A OK, but a semi nude avatar is bad. Thank you for your input, you are now a darwin award potential winner. Please go back to draggin your knuckles around your home and flingin poo.

"

Actually, before giving insults one must realize the culture from which it springs. In America, the Bible is the norm, and it has a great amount of violence and sees the body as sin; therefore, in the United States, violence is seen as normal, but the body as taboo. Now, in Europe it is the opposite. Many commercials even have nudity, but it is so commonplace people dont notice... Alas, in many european countries violence IS more monitored than nudity is in the US.

I am a US citizen, but was born in Scotland. I personally prefer the European views. Basically I can see if the person was angry at how those 'trench-coats' show a female avatars boobs fully exposed, and too many dancers wear vests or jackets for just that effect.

I will agree that dancers need to moderate their sluttiness, but then, i dont see the flesh-wrap or exotic leotard as slutty. Go to a normal dance school in the real world, you will see much tighter and possibly revealing outfits.

On the other hand, I think there should be a way to flag an account "ADULT" and have parts of cantinas, etc only accessible by these, where dancers can go topless etc.

Seeing violence only hurts a child whos parent cant tell them the truth about it, and that its a game and explain things are different than real life. Fear of the body and sexuality can have jsut as bad effects... the more taboo, the more a rebelling child is willign to go that route.

Just my thoughts.

Astrid - Bloodfin

Lacy - Starsider

nice joke. if it's not NPCs where fleshwraps too, what are you going to do, moralize to them? lol.

The only piece of clothing that's lame in the game is exotic leotard on girls with maximum torsos. It clips the leotard and really looks stupid.

Other than that there's nothing in the game that's wrong as far as clothing goes.

Personally I like the infiltrator suit for dancing and casual wear. Nice and comfy

-- Yp

Honestly I find many of the other clothing more appealing on female dancers, I'm not sure why. Yes the fleshwrap has a certain appeal to it.. the first 5 times you see it.. but when you walk into the cantina day after day and see 5, 6, 7 female twi'lek's in fleshwraps guess what.. it gets OLD. Then when a lovely human or female twi'lek strolls in wearing something different like a nice dress or leotard and actually looks CLASSY.. you will find yourself watching them specifically.

I notice this as a regular customer, but even moreso when I'm an entertainer myself and generally see the same people everyday. The ones with variety and personality are just plain more FUN (in my opinion) than someone who wears the same color fleshwrap everyday, and has a built in lapdance/tip macro, but otherwise doesn't say a word.

Funkadelik Brotha(Scylla)/Sskaar Sskitter(StarSider)

Well, I don't have a flesh wrap, but I do wear an exotic leotard. I actually don't wear it to get noticed, I wear it because it's what the twi'lek dancer wore in the movie and I think that's cool Cheesy? Maybe, but I don't care.

I also own a metal bikini, because it looks like a genie in a bottle!, and when I'm dancing lyrical or just feel like covering up a bit, I have a nice dress and a grand twi'lek headwrap which seems to get me noticed even more than the leotard.

We all have our reasons..

I just bought a fleshwrap not too long ago. The reason I didn't have it before is because I didn't think it would look right on me. I love my exotic leotards though. Normally I will only wear those things if my regulars ask me to or I just feel like a change.

If you feel the need to not tip someone for what they wear that is your business. Telling us we need to worry about your children is rediculous. I play the game, dance the way I want, and wear what I want for my entertainment, and the entertainment of my customers. I'm not going to worry if everyone that comes into the cantina has children or not so I can quick change my clothes so they cant see my legs!

Relica Tremayne

Master Dancer / Image Designer

Eclipse

I'm afraid that I'm about to make myself unpopular.

Folks, a little tolerance is in order, and I'm not speaking to TailorElek here.

The post that started this thread was a perfectly reasonable one. A player was seeing a trend in the cantinas he was visiting. That trend bothered him, he made some presumptions about what was causing the trend, and he posted his views about it. He never attacked anyone. He never used any inflammatory language. He didn't condemn anyone.

What he said was "You don't need to dance semi-nude in order to get tips. In fact, some of your customers prefer you to look dressed and elegant instead." This is a valid opinion. He didn't say he was organizing a boycott. He simply said he doesn't tip people who dress in a way he dislikes.

Roughly half of the responses were strongly emotional and some were downright ugly. Swiller, I'm looking at you.

I wonder if he would have gotten the same response if he had said "You don't have to dance in your underwear to get tips...".

Some rules for the road:

• Forums carry very little emotional context. I may say "I hate broccoli" in what I "hear" as a perfectly reasonable voice. You absolutely LOVE broccoli. Because of that, you "hear" me speaking in an angry voice and assume that I want to stamp out broccoli and all it stands for.
  
  Don't make assumptions about context. Read a note twice and, hard as it might be sometimes, give the person the benefit of the doubt. Assume that (in their mind at least) they were speaking reasonably and calmly.
  


• If you weren't named and your previous statements weren't referenced then you weren't being personally attacked, even if the speakers views conflict with yours. Debate is all about disagreement. It's okay for someone to hold a different view and to express it. It's okay for you to express your view. Someone can disagree strongly and still be a reasonable person.
  


• Don't assume things about other players and then attack those things. You know nothing about anyone on these forums except what they've posted publically. Just because you feel that "Nobody but a person with background X would feel that way", that doesn't mean that the other person actually IS background X. Stereotypes are abhorrent no matter which side of the argument they appear on.
  


• Don't call names, especially implied names. Don't ridicule the other person. The weakest argument you can possibly make is to assume things about someone and then make fun of those made up things. It shows that you don't have any way of backing up your own viewpoint.
  


• In other words apply the Golden Rule - Before you respond emotionally, ask yourself how you would react if you received the post you were about to send. If the answer is "I'd get pretty mad!" then don't send it.
  


• Oh, and just for completeness - The oldest forum axiom there is: Whoever mentions Hitler or Nazis first automatically loses. Hasn't gotten that far around here yet, thankfully, but I see trends I dislike.

Let's keep this and all of the forums around here a place where everyone can express their opinions and we can talk about them in a civil manner, even if we disagree with them.

Nice post Slick... however there were a couple points in the original post that set people off:

1. The reference to "young children" as the reason to cover up. There's another post about this. I think 90% of the forum agrees that SOE has decided this amount of skin is acceptable. Parents are responsible for what their children see. I am not responsible for who sees the way I act (to a certain extent). I'm not out doingthis inreal life public. Everyone is here in this game voluntarily.

Imho: Everyone in this game should be ready to be offered a lap dance, or be requested to give a lap dance. You can respond "no"and that should be the end of it, but you shouldn't be offended by the initial request.

2. The original post implied a threat to "cover up" or "no tips". No one takes well to threats, implied or otherwise. These especially don't work well when most dancers make very very little already.

3. I am curious if this tailor sells such things as these offensive hot pants and the flesh wraps.

4. What movie is the flesh wrap from?

I wasn't going to respond but Slick's post was very good, as was Yajedi's reply.

In a way, I agree with the original poster. I'm *sick* of seeing half the dancers wearing a fleshwrap. It isn't that they pull them out and dance in them for a half hour, that's the *only* thing a lot of them wear. I get to see fleshwraps allll the time in the cantina, then when I am running to the med center I'll often see at least one person wearing one, then once I enter the med center one or two of the medics will have one on. (No, I'm not joking). Oddly enough, one of the dancers that exclusively wears a fleshwrap also seems to have the AFK flag as a permanent adornment above her head...

As a tailor who is skilling up, I tend to make new clothes an awful lot as I get new schematics. I'm not a master tailor yet, so I don't have anything particularly revealing beyond hotpants and the small bustier (which I do wear occasionally but usually only for a while before I log for the night). Last night I was getting great tips dancing poplock2 while wearing a lekku wrap, sports wrap, lined shorts and sandals. Hardly a 'sexy' outfit, but I was dancing with the music-I think poplock looks great with rock-using my lightshow to enhance my flourishes and chatting with people a LOT. There was also a dancer with a fleshwrap on and I don't think she got any more watchers than I did just for showing more skin.

However, where I really disagree with the original poster is when it comes to children. I know that the overall trend in the US is for people to not take responsibility for anything they do (witness that McDonald's lawsuit-maybe your coffee wouldn't have burned you if you'd put it in the cupholder, dummy). However, I am not responsible for your children. As others have stated, this is a TEEN game. In order to have an account, anyone under age pretty much needs the permission of their parent since they have to use mom or dad's credit card to pay. It is not MY job to worry about whether or not the people coming into the cantina are very young-that's their parent's job and if the parent does not want to spend time monitoring what their child does online, they shouldn't let their children online AT ALL.

I know someone else on another thread mentioned that parents can't monitor their children 24/7. Well guess what? Your kid isn't playing SWG 24/7. If you only have an hour where you can spend with your child, why don't the BOTH of you play the game together? One hour is plenty, and that way you don't have to worry about what kind of people your child runs into in game.

It is totally your perogative not to tip dancers in flesh wraps, just like my medic will not action heal anyone who is not actually at their keys, but I will never ever go on what appears to be a crusade to get other people to not heal AFKers. As a tailor, I assume that you will not be making any of the revealing, skimpy outfits that you gain once you reach master, right?

PS I like brocolli!

Another great post from Velvet

Let me share an incident I experienced a week or so ago in a public cantina. I already told this story on the main boards once, so if you've heard it, please forgive me and move along

I was dancing in my "home" cantina in Mos Eisley with several friends. It was a great night as I had been on Naboo and Corellia quite a bit, and hadn't seen my old regulars in some time. I was having fun greeting them and catching up on things, flirting and being my usual self.

A group of adventurers came in and sat down on the floor near me to watch the dancers. As I always try to do, I started getting their attention. I chatted with a couple of them and then asked the small Bothan in the middle a question. Silence. Maybe he was afk? I waited, kept chatting and dancing, and then /emoted something funny about him not answering. Still nothing. So I /beckoned him. That's all - nothing sexual or overt, just /beckon.

The female medic accompanying him sent me a /tell: "Careful, he's only 8."

I was shocked! Then she explained, "I'm his mother. His dad is the Scout next to him."

Now I was thoroughly mortified (though I hadn't done anything wrong). I said I admired how they were playing *with* their kid and watching him rather than turning him loose. We had a pleasant conversation and she wasn't mad at me at all.

But it shocked me to death that an 8 year old kid would be in a public cantina in a "T" rated game. I refuse to apologize for utilizing the tools the game gives me - but by the same token I do not want to be party to the corruption of a minor

The moral of this story: You just never know who you're dancing for, and there's no accounting for taste ... OR standards.

To the original poster and all who agree with him:

I'm not responsible for your kids. No one is but you. If you failed to read the "Teen" rating on the box, it is not, nor will it EVER be my problem. Asking people to make SWG into a disney wonderland so you can bring the toddlers is pathetic. How quickly people forget the very same skimpy outfits were in the VERY same SW movies they let their kids watch. Now I have to point out that there is even a seen where a Twi'lek slave's BOOB pops out in the scene where she struggles on Jabba's leash before being dropped down a dark shaft and into the jaws of a rancor. And you expect the dancing community to take your gripe seriously?

LOL!!!!!

Ever leave your sports illustrated out on the coffee table? How about those of you complaining conservatives who subcribe to maxim and casually leave the mag in the living room where your children play? Need I mention that most cartoons are more voilent than some adult TV dramas? In other words, hypocrites have no moral high-ground from which to complain.

A simple commercial of a beach scene with girls playing volleyball in their swimsuits show just as much skin as a fleshwrap and leotard. None of the dancer's outfits are offensive when compared to what your kids see on TV every day. Why people choose to complain about a fleshwrap is beyond me. Thik about his next time your kids are sitting down in front of the tube whenever "Baywatch" is on or leave a copy of the Victoria's secret catalog on top of the recycling bin.

And lastly, I am inclined to think that those who demand other people be responsible for THEIR children are overall bad parents themselves. Have a good day, and do your part by keeping your children out of the cantinas in the first place. I'm just a gamer that accepts the "TEEN" rating, not a freakin' babysitter.