Dancer Archive
Thread: Jukebox and Dancer
Landlubber
Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:47 pm
#14
Drygo wrote:
I completely understand and sympathize with the musician. But, let's be nice...please.
Sure - from a dancer's point of view, that was a perfectly valid question, and I neither blame the OP for it nor resent her asking it. I just can't answer it, because I listened to a jukebox (not voluntarily) for all of 20 seconds so far, so I have no clue whatsoever what songs are available, and neither do I want to know, for my own peace of mind as a musician (or what's left of it anyway). And those 20 seconds happened when the mayor of my player city dropped one in my cantina after the patch. I then had to inform him politely but firmly that while I completely understand him wanting to try it out, next time he should do me the courtesy of asking me before he fits my cantina with a soundtrack which I can't disable and which effectively preventsme from playing there for a full 8 hours. He switched it off immediately...
And also, it just should be kept in mind that this may very well be a sign that SOE consider their so-called "exciting new play-style" a failure and intend to completely scrap the entertainer professions after the Combat Upgrade. And that would affect the dancers too. The jukebox may be just the death knell for us musicians, but if they stop seeing us as a viable profession (which they obviously did long ago), there's no reason to assume that they think differently for dancers.
Yes, I realize those are worst-case assumptions... but really, can we be blamed for considering them?
Anyway, my apologies to the OP for a mostly OT reply. No offense intended.
LyteFoot
Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:48 am
#15
ChiiTWINS wrote:
When you can't get a live band for a party, a CD player works nicely IRL. There's no difference here.
Yes there is a big difference. In RL I can't go buy CD's of performances that never occurred, I can't go buy performances that are impossible to perform in some capacity live. The difference is that the songs played on the jukebox are more varied, more professional, and better mixed than a musician can ever do.
That said I'm never going to fault someone for improving their game play. I hate that they made it so attractive that it gives more possibilities for the dancers to perform to, however since they did I certainly wouldn't fault someone for using all the tools they have available. Just don't gloat over the fact that your profession got something at my expense as was done in another thread
.
IshtoBlade
Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:14 am
#16
Path lights the candles and dims the lights, preparing for an intimate dinner with a few close friends. "Umm...music. Need music"
A band? Naaa..
Path attends a very serious meeting of The Imperial Order. Event is by invitation only and topics discussed are top secret. Mood music would enhance the gathering.
A band? Ha...they would shoot ME!
Groovymarlin
Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:02 am
#17
I really feel for the musicians on this one. Sure people like the jukeboxes, because they have a wide variety of music and it's stuff we haven't heard as much (or so I'm told). After months of the same songs over and over, I'm sure even musicians are tired of some of their songs.
It is, as someone said, a "thoughtless, braindead decision" by the devs to put the jukebox in the way they did. Instead of giving new songs and types of music to musicians, they make a jukebox. Instead of making it an item that only musicians can create and record the music for, they make it a player event perk that anyone can buy for eight hours at a time.
Sad. Have they said ANYTHING to musicians about this? I mean, seriously.
It is, as someone said, a "thoughtless, braindead decision" by the devs to put the jukebox in the way they did. Instead of giving new songs and types of music to musicians, they make a jukebox. Instead of making it an item that only musicians can create and record the music for, they make it a player event perk that anyone can buy for eight hours at a time.
Sad. Have they said ANYTHING to musicians about this? I mean, seriously.
kirah_ashlin
Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:03 am
#18
The idea of a jukebox is a good one - truly! It was, however, implimented in such a way that it causes greatharm to an entire player base and was obviously either not thought through properly or (worse) intentionally thrown out there without a concern about musicians. Why is this jukebox only available through an NPC? Why can't the musicians at least be able to craft them (or part of them as in the case of playback droids)? Why is it less expensive to purchase a jukebox (which runs for 8 hours) than to hire a band? Why is the jukebox ambient when players must /listen to musicians to hear them? Why is the music that the jukebox playsmore professional and varied than our live musicians could even hope to achieve with the current mechanics of this game? Why were the countless requests - since launch -of the musicians to be given the very capabilites of this jukebox ignored by the devs.
Think this can't impact the musicians? I know a prominent musician who is so disgusted with the jukebox being implimented despite months of trying to get the devs to give musicians more songs and instrument sounds that he very well may never play the game again.
You want to utilize the jukebox? That is your decision and I won't fault you for it. It's a wonderful game tool - even more wonderful than live players, apparently. Just don't tell me I should shut up about the problems I have with it. Don't say anything if it isn't nice? For months we tried that tactic as entertainers and it got us NOTHING! So kindly don't preach to me about how I should or shouldn't behave. I'm a grown woman and will speak my mind when and where I feel like it - even if it runs counter to the majority or popular opinion.
So, what's next? Holodancers?
Message Edited by kirah_ashlin on 02-27-2005 12:04 PM
Ka_ren
Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:34 am
#19
Personally, I like the idea of the jukebox but the should have first or at the very least given more songs abd combinations to the musicians. Having a jukebox at home that I can dance with is somewhat appealing, but it can never replace the company and personality of a live musician.
ChiiTWINS
Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:32 am
#20
Kirah --
I'm sorry, I don't recall telling anyone to not complain.
What I said was, try not ripping into the poor people who come here for questions/advice/help like it's THEIR fault you're ticked off.
Heaven forbid we attempt to be polite to the player base, even if the people who can fix the problems won't listen. It's not the players fault.
I'm sorry, I don't recall telling anyone to not complain.
What I said was, try not ripping into the poor people who come here for questions/advice/help like it's THEIR fault you're ticked off.
Heaven forbid we attempt to be polite to the player base, even if the people who can fix the problems won't listen. It's not the players fault.
kirah_ashlin
Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:15 am
#21
ChiiTWINS wrote:
Kirah --
I'm sorry, I don't recall telling anyone to not complain.
If I misunderstood your post, then I apologize. My initial post was not meant to "rip" into the original poster either, but simply state how I felt about the jukebox.
It's unfortunate that, once again, we "social" players have been placed in a position where we have tofind a way to work aroundwhat some could consider a gamebreaking situation. The jukebox is here to stay. It's potential and "fun" factor just can't be overlooked. How much better it would have been to have given it's capabilities to musicians . . . .
*Steps off soapbox*
Allia_Rain
Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:04 am
#22
I really like the Jukebox, but I competly understand why musicans don't like them. I'd love to see musicans get the ability to play those songs and more that the jukebox can't. It's a pity I can't see that happening for musicans anytime soon though.
Saeelwenea
Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:09 am
#23
repeating myself from another thread butfelt I should say it here as well
I'm a Musician and I happen to love the Jukebox. It does not play the same songs that I can play as a musician or if they are it's nothing like anything I've ever heard from a musician. And no in my opinion it is not the death of entertainers for one thing to my knowledge it can not heal wounds, BF or do mind buffs. True those three items are not the be all end all of entertainers but they do seem to be what most combat typesexpect from entertainers. I have already set up a Jukebox in our mini mall and set one up in our PA hall andI have every intention of replacing them when I get home from work tonight.They won't take the place of outdoor RP events either since they can not beplaced outside.Yes they play music we as musicians will probably never be able to play and yes it would be nice if some of those songs we could play but some of those songs without a state of the art system will never be played by a live band anywhere.
I only have a couple of problems with them: A) they can only be heard in the room in which they have been placed and not all over the house, B) Having them last a 24hour period in my opinion would be better then a 8 hour period C) I think itwould be great if they would play a selection of songs being able to set of a list of songs they could rotate though would be great, being able to setup how long it will play each song and then it will switch to the next song in the selected list would be very cool I think.
As to the mention earlier of a singer/songwriter profession wth do you need a SOE to set of aprofession for it we have the /sing emote that lets an entertainer sing to her audience, I, myself, for a Chirstmas party that Solar Flair performed at macroed a number of Christmas songs to be sung while we played for everyone. Now I'm not much of a song writer but I can't see a reason in the world why someone who wishes to be a songwriter cannot do so right now.
picklesSW
Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:09 am
#24
"As to the mention earlier of a singer/songwriter profession wth do you need a SOE to set of aprofession for it we have the /sing emote that lets an entertainer sing to her audience, I, myself, for a Chirstmas party that Solar Flair performed at macroed a number of Christmas songs to be sung while we played for everyone. Now I'm not much of a song writer but I can't see a reason in the world why someone who wishes to be a songwriter cannot do so right now."
Speaking words in spatial is not even remotely in the same ballpark as giving the musicians the ability to actually craft new music. I think that's what most musicians want, not the ability to just speak text with a fancy text bubble box. I think they want to craft a new song using MIDI or something and be able to have other players actually hear it. The type of songwriting you are talking about doesn't even remotely qualify as songwriting or singing. It's lyric writing perhaps.
And I think the last thing we need is improving the jukebox in any way, given the reactions of the musicians. Have a bit of class. Maybe you love them and that's fine, but you can't close your eyes to the other musicians who despise them. If the devs are going to expend any more effort on music in this game, I suggest spending that time on the musician profession, not on the damned jukeboxes.
Speaking words in spatial is not even remotely in the same ballpark as giving the musicians the ability to actually craft new music. I think that's what most musicians want, not the ability to just speak text with a fancy text bubble box. I think they want to craft a new song using MIDI or something and be able to have other players actually hear it. The type of songwriting you are talking about doesn't even remotely qualify as songwriting or singing. It's lyric writing perhaps.
And I think the last thing we need is improving the jukebox in any way, given the reactions of the musicians. Have a bit of class. Maybe you love them and that's fine, but you can't close your eyes to the other musicians who despise them. If the devs are going to expend any more effort on music in this game, I suggest spending that time on the musician profession, not on the damned jukeboxes.
Saeelwenea
Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm
#25
It would be great if they would give us new songs, some of these songs on the jukebox I would love to be able to play as a musician, it would be great if they would give us a new high end techincal instrument that will fake the sounds of nature to use with our songs, as to having actually voice singing in the game I don't see it happening yes it would be cool but I still see no reason to look down on using the /sing unless your audience tells you to quit spamming. I have heard that told to some musicians and dancers who were tring to sing. But at the same time I cannot see a musician wanting to spend time in a mall playing atmosphere music to the customers who walk in. Placing a jukebox in a cantina or theater is not the thing to do specially if that cantina or theater has regular musicians/dancers.But I cannot see a reason to not use one in a situation where a musician will normally not be. For events and social gatherings a band will also be better then any jukebox, specially if they will give us some of those songs off the jukebox.
Anoewyn
Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:59 pm
#26
I quite enjoy the jukebox - there are many songs on its list that are excellent for providing ambience and mood. I also like the idea of being able to add more choreographed dance routines and performance ideas to my already long list of performance sets. But I beleive the person beginning this thread asked people what they enjoyed about the jukebox and how they might use it to enhance their performances, and I don't think he/she deserved some of the snotty comments they received. They were asking about ideas and creativity in terms of what kind of dances might be paired with some songs, not another diatribe on how the devs are ruining the entertainer profession yet again.
I can understand howa musician would feel threatened by this, and also beleive that a few of the more "melodic/upbeat" songs should have been allocated tonew content for musicians. But because I am also interested in discussing which songs might suit some dances/flourishes does not mean that I don't work with or promote musicians, and it most certainly does not mean I would use a jukebox to replace them. It most certainly does not mean I am any less of an entertainer or that I have no respect for the hard work live musicians put into their craft.
Quite the opposite actually. Before I logged in here today to read some of the "elitist moral-high-ground" stance that some have taken, I was actually workingwith two musicans who are old, old firends of mineto help them test out the jukeboxand how one might co-ordinate both live dance and live musicwith the jukebox. Whislt my friendsadmitted they might have liked some of the songs added to musician, they were more excited about having another tool to assist in their performances. After much playing with the jukebox, we discovered that the fading of music when the song is changed or turned off can work to our advantage with live musicans, and our only criticism was we wished we could turn the volume up or down to fade into segments of our choice where the musicbetter suited the drama of the musician or dance flourises we were performing. With more practice at timing the fades, along with experimenting instrument changes and dance accompaniment,we are looking forward to seeing just how far we can "push" the jukebox and what it is we can acheive.