Dancer Archive
Thread: We are NOT Two Professions
Sultrina wrote:
Ok lets see if we can take a wild guess about Sony's take on the Dancer
2 items we heal Both of which are healable by entertainers only or they affect your ability to survive in both PvE and PVP
1 buff - To an unhealable stat that is required for most combat specials and can be targetted specifically by some professions.
60 pluss peices of eye candy in special moves and light show - Well there's always the exotic leotard
I think it is pretty clear here that the intention is that we be entertaining. Sure we heal to, but that is what brings the people to us to we don't have to go looking for them. 60 pluss special moves is a LOT of content and when mixed in diffrent variations there is a lot to do. So for my part I think any content added to the proffesion should be more tools to amuse players durrent their down time. We don't need more power in the class we need more toys.
Doctors can buff and heal, does that qualify them as a social class?
Poet, there are 2 types of dancers in this game.
1) those that concentrate on the social aspect trying to enrich the roleplaying side and acting out there profession while backseating buffs and healing as an auxilliary function
2) those that concentrate on the strictly pragmatic healer/buffer aspect while backseating or flat out disregarding the roleplaying aspect.
There is a middleground but its all mucky.
You should worry more about the devs figuring out that us dancers and musicians should be able to buff ourselves as well as heal battlefatigue in a regular camp. Scouts would finally have a new use for their now almost obsolete camps. This topic is going to be hashed and rehashed by people who really have too much time on their hands. If you want to roleplay thats great but if you dont want to roleplay thats just fine too. You pay your $13 a month so you play it as you want to.
PoetDancer wrote:
We socialize because we want to fill in the time between /startwatch and /stopwatch. How, someone tell me how this makes me an inferior healer to a "heal oriented" dancer?
What type of content do you want for those 10 minutes or whatever of buffing? While there are an awful lot of dancers who have a buff macro, I do not. I dance appropriately to the music, I afford myself this buffing opportunity to put on as many flourishes as possible to coincide with the music, and I use multiple effects even though they do nothing to help the buffing process. When I buff, that's when I really perform, that's when I use more flourishes and effects than usual.
And, ya know what happens when I do that? People not only tell me thank you and pay me, but they say things like "wow, you really looked great!" That means a lot to me. 
People do actually watch, believe it or not. Not everybody, of course. Some people like to chat, and that's what I do with them. If they don't, then I do my best to put on an actual show. Of course, sometimes I get no feedback whatsoever. But, there are a lot of times that I do.
Ok, I admit, I don't do that all the time...lol...but, I consider that to be content. I consider being able to put on a 10 minute private show catered directly to my audience and going in step to the music to be fun content. I have those flourishes, those many types of dances, and those effects at my disposal, and I use them! Try doing it, you might find it fun.
Other than that, I don't know what possible content we should have to fill in that "down time." I suspect, though, that instead of wanting more content for the down time, you would rather there be no down time whatsoever. In that case, you're not really asking for content. And, I do sympathize with the time situation. There are times where I just want to get the buff over with too. lol But, since that's not how the game works at this point in time, there's nothing I can do except try to cater to whatever it is my audience wants at the time. And, if I have an impatient customer who tells me they need to get out quick or keeps asking how much time is left, then I'll over /flo and try to get it done for them quicker. But, the truth is, when I chat with them or when I try to put on a show, they are usually entertained and the "how much longer" /tells are few and far between.
I think that the two "camps" that we're discussing are extremes of the spectrum of dancing. There is a small percentage that is very focussed on entertaining only. And, there is a small percentage that is very focussed on getting out as quickly as possible. But, in my experience in dancing for over 4 months now is that there is a HUGE spectrum that falls somewhere along the middle and actually DOES watch, and they actually DO enjoy there time spent in the Cantina for my buff. Perhaps I just get lucky on a regular basis, I dunno. But, I'm just talking from my own experience. And, I RARELY get complaints about the buff being too long, and most people seem to be a-ok with it. Or, maybe they're just all lying to me and don't want to hurt my feelings. LOL
Most of the people that use entertainer buffs turn to guild/city buffbots that will get the bot done fast and get it over with... imho. A lot of people only play for an hour or two a night. They do not want to spend 10 minutes buffing mind, and 10 minutes buffing focus/willpower.
Yajedi wrote:
Most of the people that use entertainer buffs turn to guild/city buffbots that will get the bot done fast and get it over with... imho. A lot of people only play for an hour or two a night. They do not want to spend 10 minutes buffing mind, and 10 minutes buffing focus/willpower.
Sorry Vid, but your argument doesn't hold water for one very simple reason: it's COMPLETELY based on your opinion being right.
I totally admit, being a dancer or a musician or an image designer isn't for everyone. The 'content', as you call it, is lacking. And because of that you find that it's not worth your $15 a month.
Guess what? Your opinion isn't the only one. I, for one, have only one account. Onmy mainserver, I play one character. A dancer. To me, I'm having a blast! I started a dancer and become a dancer.I enjoy being a dancer, because I enjoy making my OWN content, talking with people, joining them on hunts, etc. To ME, I don't like PvPing. Does that mean I can go to the GCW boards and say "Hey SOE, you suck, I'm PvPing and I hate it, so make it better"? No, I don't. PvP isn't for ME, so I don't do it.
You're right, there are very few people that play a dancer only, fair enough. But this kind of class is completely new in an MMO game. These types of games in the pastwere only dealing with combat related classes. SWG dove into something that was new. I wouldn't be surprised to see other MMO games trying to do something similar.
Now, does that mean there shouldn't be more content for entertainers? I don't know. Maybe. If they did add some, then I could choose to go there or not. Just like, if you don't like PvP then you don't join the GCW. Just like, if you don't like dancer, you can choose not to play one. If you dislike it that much, don't play one.
I'm not trying to flame you here, this isn't my intention at all. But you can't come here and say that because the class isn't satisfying you that it's wrong for everyone else.
PoetDancer wrote:
Yajedi wrote:
Most of the people that use entertainer buffs turn to guild/city buffbots that will get the bot done fast and get it over with... imho. A lot of people only play for an hour or two a night. They do not want to spend 10 minutes buffing mind, and 10 minutes buffing focus/willpower.
Agreed. But I know how to buff just as fast as any bot of equal skill levels. Just give me green buffs and I can "faux flourish" with the best of them. So why am I a less effective healer because I fill in the space between the shortened /startwatch and /stopwatch with something amusing?
I think the difference between Yajedi's point and yours are looking at the same thing. First - the person who uses the shortened stop/start/stop/start version is not afk... the basis of a buff bot is someone who has a macro running and ruins the profession for all entertainers. Musicians and dancers alike. I've used the shortened version a lot... I don't sit /afk in a cantina all day long a: /begging for tips, b: /buffing anyone and everyone who groups with me. Yes - the new restrictions have k/o'd my career as a buffer, - running around to different places buffing folk who need it quick is no longer an option, yet being a stat migrated afk bot is now a serious career choice.
Yajedi's point is that if you only get to play for 1 - 2 hours a night, and you want to get a buff, you lose enough time to make it not worth trying to get a buff. There are a hell of a lot of *time* sinks in this game already and adding one to an already undervalued and underappreciated class - a truly low profile class is worse than swinging a nerf bat at the profession. I personally won't buff with my second char now, because the players who come to me wanted an on call service... for them now, they lose just as much time using me as they do a buff bot but...they don't need to tip that player.. for them it's now a choice.
It's sad to say it, but the use of a bug was for many what differentiated the entertainers from the bots. Those who could choose to use the speed buff where the ones who actually made the class noteworthy... those whobotted afk therefore notusing something the developers hadn't foreseen- gave our professions (both musician/dancer) a bad name. Isn't that irony? Normally - those who use an exploit to break the game rules are the ones who give that profession a bad name - in the case of Entertainers... it's the reverse. Perhaps not good r/p, but definately good for the profession as a whole.
As someone who doesn't buff afk, you should be able to do it better... now you can't, and it's enforced by the game system. Nice touch I guess.
There's my two pence.
- Gabriel' Nightstalker of the Chimaera Server (Master Musician/Master Dancer)
I levelled before cantinas were full of afk-ers and spam and I very, very rarely go into cantinas now at all. Our band does one or two shows a week andthat's when I dance, that's what makes it worth it to me. I don't object to buffing people when they need it at all, and I have a 3.1 minute macro that doesn't look too messy although it's visually pretty limited by having to spam flos, but my interest is in using the tools in the profession and working with other people who are really familiar with those tools to build good shows. I'd love to have our cantinas back, we used to get some great parties going in them before there were zombies parked all over the dance floor and the air was filled with "I'm not here, please invite me, heal me, tip me, feed me xp, give me freebies, play the game for me" cries.
I would love to see an intentional, accessible speed buff, I think it would make live performing much more viable and cut down on the perceived need for AFK buffers (not that an AFK mind buffer is any more needed than an AFK healer or an AFK killer or an AFK armorcrafter, it's just possible so people have decided to do it.)
Yajedi wrote:
Most of the people that use entertainer buffs turn to guild/city buffbots that will get the bot done fast and get it over with... imho. A lot of people only play for an hour or two a night. They do not want to spend 10 minutes buffing mind, and 10 minutes buffing focus/willpower.
I think it's worth noting that if someone is on for only an hour, then he doesn't need a full 2-hour buff. The patron should let the Dancer know that. It can help out.
And he may not need a full 2-hour buff for his 2 hours online. At the end, he may be wrapping up by selling his resources and choosing the loot he wants to sell or destroy. Most people don't even need 2-hour buffs for what they're doing. They can probably get by with just an hour and a half, cutting down the Dance time.
Leonae wrote:
And, again - you can buff people in 3 minutes 10 seconds, you don't need to spend 10 minutes doing it. You can still run your "on call" buff business.
You may be *right* techinically.. but - two words spring to mind here...
"TIME" and "SINK", or to be more precise "Yet" "Another" "Time" "Sink".
For the majority of people who haven't played through the Entertainer professions, both Dancer and Musician - they want it now. It's one thing when they have to queue for buffs, this has become the norm - this is due to the fact that Doctors who are Master are prevalent.
Musicians and Dancers can quite happily charge 20k each for an on call buffing service. I know - I charge 35k for both. This provides me an income to buy toys and stuff. This is for a Doctor equivalent service relatively when concerning speed. It used to also have specific advantages that have since been *nerf'ed* out of the playing field...
These are:
1. You can no longer /watch, then /listen - have the Entertainer stop performing, and activate the buff at a later period in time. This means that you can no longer source that Master Dancer/Master Musician who's not AFK - get a buff and go do what you got to do.
2. You can no longer get a buff that is in real terms, as quick and accessible as a Doctors, albeit from a much rarer profession. Yes - you pay a premium for that service, and get results.
3: These changes now make the buff-bot, that all too common for *any* social entertainer -be they healers or not (see above subgroups), variant on the Entertainer profession become as worthwhile a player as the two above groups.
Granted, I don't play in bands - I run around planet to planet buffing folk who are willing to pay me. I don't tend to heal BF or mind wounds much, there are plenty of others who need the exp more. Does the fact that I'm more focused on the empowering aspect of my professions make me any less worthwhile than my opposites, the socials... No, not in my opinion... they are altogether needed by their friends and guilds, and they too serve a purpose. What I've been frustrated with is the way that - the AFK buff bot has profited mostly from the recent changes. Since there is now less requirement to get a specialised player to buff you - the afk bot now fills the cantina's, damaging the credentials of the socials. Who have in turn damaged the credentials of the buffer who're not afk. We use macros yet... we still have the same pride in the professions we chose to take.
So why are we biting at each other... the people who deserve our frustrations are the bots who spam the cantina's for tips, while they're sleeping, or working or watching tv. Those who yell for groupies to tip them for buffing while they do nothing else, except maybe thrash through Halo... (note - while trying to get to Master in both, I did spend some time playing Halo... so I'm not entirely unsympathetic with some afk play), those who have been at the keyboard the whole time - I salute you... you've more patience than I...) but I digress...
We're the same coin, just different sides, the buff bot however shouldn't bea part of this. It wrecks the reputation, fun and respect this profession has... and with moves like killing speed buffs, denying players the ability to buff both musician/dancer at once and making it even easier for the buff bots to remain and grow richer, the people making the changes are effectively nerfing entertainer into a non profession, played by those who can use a second account.
So much for the casual gamer then eh?
I guess that's me done now.
Gabriel' Nightstalker of the Chimaera Server.
Spinnthrift wrote:
You may be *right* techinically.. but - two words spring to mind here...
"TIME" and "SINK", or to be more precise "Yet" "Another" "Time" "Sink".
Kuildeous wrote:
Spinnthrift wrote:
You may be *right* techinically.. but - two words spring to mind here...
"TIME" and "SINK", or to be more precise "Yet" "Another" "Time" "Sink".
Everything costs. Or at least it should.
For Doctors, the cost is in resources.
For Entertainers, the cost is in time.
We buff for free. We can just tell someone to watch, do our thing, and leave without having spent a single credit. It costs us nothing but time.
So if Mind buffs are so darned easy to give, why shouldn't they ensure that there is a time sink? The Entertainer who discovered the 30-second buff is like the Doctor who discovers a 50-credit buff. Yeah, you can bet they'll work on balancing that out.
So asking to give us instant buffs is pointless as it stands. A proposal to make us spend money on the buff would stand a better chance. Hopefully not crafting. We already have crafting professions. No need to make Entertainers huge crafters.
Totally right - I agree, but - on the flip side, which you negate to add - is that Entertainers who devote their skillpoints to doing just that have no other form of income. If as a Master Dancer I could take a mission that would pay for me to take it, I'd not have raised a peep.I'd have said happily - sure, the cost in time to buff is negligable. But - when as a Master Musician, I get offered missions that pay me 100 credits for my time and effort, it defeats your arguement. I am happy knowing I can't solo Rancor lairs... I leave that to the combat types, but when *any* other Elite profession can turn more credits in an hour, than a buffing Entertainercan in a day, even including their expenses - it begs the question... which is still unanswered.
Why are we biting those who choose to *play* Entertainer in a different style - when the main focus of our feelings are down to those who buff all day long and haven't pressed a key other than F7 perhaps? Oh yeah, and /afk.
I may not have 2000 posts to my name, but I still have love and a lot of pride for my profession. I'd not be posting here otherwise.
- Gabriel' Nightstalker, Master Dancer/Musician of the Chimaera Server.