CUEmu - Thread Posts

PoetDancer

Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:27 am

There are NOT two classes, "social entertainers," and, "healing entertainers." Both types have the same game mechanics attached to them. What's the difference? Some fill in the dead time between when a patron starts and stops watching with something, be it conversation or something else. Others could care less about the dead time. That's the ONLY difference I see between what people call "social entertainers," and "healing entertainers." Is there a difference I am not seeing?

Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."

Niza

Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:17 am

#2

There is simply the profession dancer... However there are definately two groups of player in the game that chose to play the profession and have an interest in the future of the profession and one group seems to be insistant that the other group be forced out.

One group is interested in adding content and improving overall gameplay to enhance the playability of the profession. The other group is more insistant that the content remain thin and that people who do not wish to create the content themselves be forced to remove themselves from the profession entirely. Unfortunately the worst on both sides give the silent majority a terrible reputation either by playing AFK 100% of the time or by general rudeness to non role players.

Ni'za Whira - Just another Bounty Hunter

PoetDancer

Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:58 am

#3

But I don't understand this alledged divide. Because no matter how many theme parks are created for us, no matter how much missions are improved, no matter how much the bugs are fixed, there will always be BF healing, mind wound heaing, and buffs. We will always be dependent on player tips. Its what we had before, what we have now, and its what we will always have. No matter how fast these things are applied, no matter what kind of things are available to us to make the dead time shorter, there is always going to be some time between /watch and /stopwatch that patrons have to contend with. So why is it I'm a "social dancer" because I fill in the dead time with something, and why does that make me evil in the eyes of the "healing dancer," who fills it with nothing? Who needs some kind of developer deus ex machina to fill in the space that dancers like me have been filling since June with no complaints?

Do I want content additions? It may be nice, but I don't need it. This class is playable now. Because no matter how many things the developers give us, somebody is going to have to be in the cantina to do the things we have always done. And both the patron and the dancer will have to somehow contend with the dead time--be it ten minutes, or ten seconds. And player tips are always going to be based on some criteria other than the bare service itself, because we will always have characters whogive out BF healing, mind wound healing, and buffsand do not feel the need to get tips. So somehow, dancers are always going to have to find some means to get a tip from someone who can get these things for free. And I don't know why the "healing dancer" or the "social dancer" are any different in this regard, nor do I see that the problems will go away if we get a 1,000 content publishes for us.

But I do agree on one thing, Niza. The differences that divide us have nothing to do with what we do in terms of the game mechanics. It has to do with the things we do BEYOND the game mechanics.

We both heal Noolos, but Noolos is a tough customer, and he won't tip unless we somehow give him more than his character screen slowly showing the BF ticking down.

Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."

Niza

Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:08 am

#4

Noolos isn't always in every cantina at every single minute of the day to be entertained. There are not enough players playing at every minute the server is online in a small concentrated amount to fill the gap in content. That is the problem. Further more not every player wants to be social to players other than those real life or online gaming friends that they already have yet they still would like to have this profession.

It's not just about tips and that is what you guys have never been willing to understand.. It's about fun.

Ni'za Whira - Just another Bounty Hunter

Yajedi

Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:47 am

#5

PoetDancer wrote:

But I don't understand this alledged divide. Because no matter how many theme parks are created for us, no matter how much missions are improved, no matter how much the bugs are fixed, there will always be BF healing, mind wound heaing, and buffs. We will always be dependent on player tips. Its what we had before, what we have now, and its what we will always have. No matter how fast these things are applied, no matter what kind of things are available to us to make the dead time shorter, there is always going to be some time between /watch and /stopwatch that patrons have to contend with. So why is it I'm a "social dancer" because I fill in the dead time with something, and why does that make me evil in the eyes of the "healing dancer," who fills it with nothing? Who needs some kind of developer deus ex machina to fill in the space that dancers like me have been filling since June with no complaints?

Do I want content additions? It may be nice, but I don't need it. This class is playable now. Because no matter how many things the developers give us, somebody is going to have to be in the cantina to do the things we have always done. And both the patron and the dancer will have to somehow contend with the dead time--be it ten minutes, or ten seconds. And player tips are always going to be based on some criteria other than the bare service itself, because we will always have characters whogive out BF healing, mind wound healing, and buffsand do not feel the need to get tips. So somehow, dancers are always going to have to find some means to get a tip from someone who can get these things for free. And I don't know why the "healing dancer" or the "social dancer" are any different in this regard, nor do I see that the problems will go away if we get a 1,000 content publishes for us.

But I do agree on one thing, Niza. The differences that divide us have nothing to do with what we do in terms of the game mechanics. It has to do with the things we do BEYOND the game mechanics.

We both heal Noolos, but Noolos is a tough customer, and he won't tip unless we somehow give him more than his character screen slowly showing the BF ticking down.

Ok, I could not disagree more. Our service is healing wounds, and fatigue and buffing. If you're telling me THAT isn't a way to earn a living, then the profession is broken.

Saying that tips aren't related to our service just proves the point more. If that were the case, I could be a tailor and make the tips just as well as the dancer can.

The game has to entertain us to some base level. And right now it does not. I cannot "play the game" and make a living. There are a total of 2 buildings in the galaxy where I am basically REQUIRED to go if I have a desire to become a master dancer sometime this year.

And even now, it takes abnormal means of generating mind wounds and battle fatigueto keep the healing xp flowing in at an acceptable rate. We abuse the game to level decently fast. If we "played" as intended... with a couple entertainers in every cantina in the galaxy...I could not imagine the amount of time it would take to obtain skills.

Vid - Doctor
----
Rokko - Dark Jedi Guardian 4-4-4-4

Yajedi

Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:57 am

#6

Ok, a different post, sorry.

Let's make an analogy. Yahoo! Games gives you free games... chess, checkers, and such. For some this is top quality entertainment and they play it all day every day, and it's free. They love it to death. If Yahoo! started charging $15 a month for it, most would demand more for it. However a few (very few) die-hards would stick with it, because for those very few, the value of Yahoo! Games is worth $15 a month.

Dancer is the same way. I can be a SWG personality, with no skill points, no abilities or anything at all, and enjoy 90% of the game that the dancer does. Why? Because dancer has no content at all. They give us a profession that, much like the Yahoo! Game "chess", is very broken... to some yes it's valued at $15 a month and they do it. To MOST of us, no way, it ain't worth it at all.

Most of the dancers I know that like the way dancer is ... only actually "dance" like 10% of the time they are in this game. As a Jedi, I "play" jedi 95% of the time I'm in the game, and I enjoy it. As a dancer, I can spend maybe 10, 20... 30 minutes tops a night "playing" dancer. The rest of the time is spent in a chat room with graphics.

Dancer is a profession in the game. I'm supposed to be able to play the game, as a dancer. I demand more for my $15 a month than what dancer gives now.

Can you honestly say you enjoy dancing when you say that you think the dancer professions is okay?

Vid - Doctor
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Rokko - Dark Jedi Guardian 4-4-4-4

Lesia

Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:16 am

#7

Ni'za is absolutly right, it's about "fun". So the question is, how can it be fun if you're afk?How does the non-social player enjoy playing a socialprofession?

/flourish

Lesia

Sultrina

Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:57 pm

#8

Ok lets see if we can take a wild guess about Sony's take on the Dancer

2 items we heal

1 buff

60 pluss peices of eye candy in special moves and light show

I think it is pretty clear here that the intention is that we be entertaining. Sure we heal to, but that is what brings the people to us to we don't have to go looking for them. 60 pluss special moves is a LOT of content and when mixed in diffrent variations there is a lot to do. So for my part I think any content added to the proffesion should be more tools to amuse players durrent their down time. We don't need more power in the class we need more toys.

Yajedi

Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:04 pm

#9

Kreistor wrote:

Guess what? Your opinion isn't the only one. I, for one, have only one account. Onmy mainserver, I play one character. A dancer. To me, I'm having a blast! I started a dancer and become a dancer.I enjoy being a dancer, because I enjoy making my OWN content, talking with people, joining them on hunts, etc.

What does going on hunts and talking to people haveto do with the dancing profession? Social dancers are nothing but "social people that dance".

I fully understand it's possible to do other things than dance and have the skill "masterdancer". But what you don't realize: If you aren't dancing, then your fun isn't coming from the Dancer Profession. Just because you can go hunting with friends... that doesn't make the dancer profession okay.

The idea is to make the dancer profession, in and of itself rewarding.

Vid - Doctor
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Rokko - Dark Jedi Guardian 4-4-4-4

Sultrina

Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:22 pm

#10

This is good information ....

If you aren't dancing, then your fun isn't coming from the Dancer Profession.

I couldn't agree more, and if all your doing is healing and buffing then you arn't DANCING. You have to enjoy making your dancer dance to enjoy this class and then there is TONS of content at your finger tips. With that logic then any content added to th class should deal with I dont know dancing?

Utess

Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:29 pm

#11

You are right and wrong here hon. We are both a healing and entertaining profession. Just one single profession. But, different people, because of their play style, focus more on one aspect over the other even though we are all doing the same thing.

The single biggest problem with the entertainer professions, however, is the healing/buffing system encourages macroed play, which can then easily be afked.

In order to buff the most effectively, you have to use a macro to spam flourishes. And anyone can heal equally so long as they are just dancing. So, the game encourages afk play for all our healing abilities.

So, what ends up happening is a lot of players out there create bot alts that just afk so they can use their services. This creates two groups of "healing focused" entertainers.

- One group, wants to be able to heal and buff fast because they are focused on providing a service, helping people, and making a living.

- The other group, wants easy and fast buffs because they don't want to ruin their bots and be "inconvenienced" by having to use real player controlled entertainers(and possibly paying for that service).

I have no issues at all with the healing focused entertainer, the problem is, the way our healing abilities are implemented right now, encouraging one group, encourages the other. In other words, making buffs/healing faster and easier helps the real players, but also makes it all the more easy to just make a bot.

This causes the vocal members of the other side(entertainer focused) to get all upset any time the healing focused people push for changes in that direction because bots are completely contrary to their vision(and mine) of a profession.

What we really and truly need, is not only more content, we need a complete overhaul on how our buffing and healing works. A change in the system that allows players to heal/buff fast or slow as they choose, but that *either way* encourages the player to be there and not macro/bot it away.

If you make that change, then everyone gets along except for the bot makers which I think it is safe to say no one else likes(its opposite to entertainer focused players, and it takes away business from healing focused players).

You are right though, we are just one profession, but there are different focuses. And the way the game works right now, one focus helps encourage bots. The system itself just needs to be changed so that it encourages people to actuallyplay, and play however their style suits them.

________________________________

'Tess
- Utess Pero: Master Entertainer, Master Dancer, Master Musician, ID
- Andria Pasretti: Master Artisan, Master Merchant, Teras Kasi Master
- Tatiyana Karkuf: Master Medic, Master Combat Medic, Master Doctor

Groovymarlin

Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:50 pm

#12

Sultrina wrote:

Ok lets see if we can take a wild guess about Sony's take on the Dancer

2 items we heal

1 buff

60 pluss peices of eye candy in special moves and light show

I think it is pretty clear here that the intention is that we be entertaining. Sure we heal to, but that is what brings the people to us to we don't have to go looking for them. 60 pluss special moves is a LOT of content and when mixed in diffrent variations there is a lot to do. So for my part I think any content added to the proffesion should be more tools to amuse players durrent their down time. We don't need more power in the class we need more toys.

Wow, Sultrina. Thank you for reminding me why I used to enjoy being a dancer so much. I remember when I was a novice, every new skill box (well, except for the healing ones!) was so exciting. Every new dance, flourish, and special effect was a revelation to me. I totally got off on choreographing dances for myself, combining them with special effects, costume changes...

God, now I hardly ever fire offan effect. What happened to me? How did I get so jaded and bitter and TIRED? I suppose it's a combination of the same old dances, month after month, the hologrinders taking over the cantina, the perceived lack of appreciation of our class...

You're right. We need more toys. SOE could make me very happy by simply finishing the flourishes for our master level dances (exotic3, exotic4, lyrical2)...a whole new dance on top of that would be awesome. A new song for my musician friends would make me ecstatic. With all that and my new entertainer droid, I might actually feel the joy of being a dancer once more.

I know a lot of this (we hope!) is coming in publish 10 and later. It just seems so far away.

La'lepa Ofo

Master Dancer :: Master Swordswoman :: Force Sensitive
AFKing is not entertaining - support real entertainers

Sultrina

Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:58 pm

#13

This is why we all need a studio, it's a place to get back to basics and remeber that its the dance that matters most.

Dancer Archive

Thread: We are NOT Two Professions