Dancer Archive
Thread: Tweaks that could possibly help revive the profession.
Drygo wrote:
....If our buffs and heals were to follow this particular model, wouldn't it be extraordinarily easy for a buffbot to set up shop, start dancing, and set themselves to Heal/Buff All?
That's only the method of application, not the cost. There would have to be a cost. Warm up, Tess's charges, Wounding, Dance Game, whatever, some kind of limiting factor cost.
A real cost that would keep this something you'd have to do Live... if it's something fun, more people will be doing it and there will be noreason for anyone to say they need a bot. That with a nice perk like Self Buffing, we'd be set on the Ent Healing front.
Then, on to the Dancing! 
Drygo wrote:
I also think that healing should remain passive, only for the simple fact that it would be an extraordinary amount of work to heal anybody and it would greatly take away any resemblance of a performance because you'd be spending too much time approving heals and you'd have time to do nothing else.
I'd like to address this point...
See what I am suggesting is that we change the overalldynamic from the idea of performing for a faceless crowd into a more personal one on one approach. You'd still concentrate on permorming in what I have suggested you'd just direct that performance to a player and SEE a result for your work. The performance you gave, depending on your character skill and the actions used (effects + flourish), would have a direct effect on the mind wounds and battle fatigue healed for that player.
I am not suggesting the removal of anything else though... I am only speaking of our healing and enhancing here. Those folks who enjoy hitting the outdoor stages where we can't even heal and putting on an actual show would still have absolutely no problem doing so! The only thing we'd be changing is the idea one dancerandmusician is all any town ever needs. One entertainer to heal one mind instead of one entetrainer to heal EVERY mind at once with control being placed in the hands of the entertainer.
I think it's important for the growth and survival of the eliteentertainer professions that every entertainer be needed and needed ATK.... Don't you?
Reachwind wrote:
The only thing we'd be changing is the idea one dancerandmusician is all any town ever needs. One entertainer to heal one mind instead of one entetrainer to heal EVERY mind at once with control being placed in the hands of the entertainer.
I think it's important for the growth and survival of the eliteentertainer professions that every entertainer be needed and needed ATK.... Don't you?
You have an interesting point. Taking performance issues out of the equation, since most complex performances are unlikely to occur in the high traffics BF healing places like the Theed, Coronet and Mos Eisley cantinas, I still have a couple of concerns...
- This would dramatically increase demand, while at the same time the end of hologrinding and changes to recursive macros might very well decrease supply. It worries me that a straight one for one system might be a little too extreme. I think it might greatly inconvienence the player base that is need of our services. Maybe if the amount of people you could effect simultaniously increased with you skill level it would help balance it out.
- The other issue I have is that it seems to involve targeted healing. I don't know about anybody else, but I've seen plenty of group leaders, including myself, who's overlooked somebody by accident because we were caught up in other things. Though most entertainers take this in stride, since I think we're pretty used to it, I'm worried that accidently missing somebody for BF or wound healing won't go over very well. We know there's many impatient players who don't spend any extra time getting what they need done... they want to get in get healed and get out.
Maryja wrote:
- This would dramatically increase demand, while at the same time the end of hologrinding and changes to recursive macros might very well decrease supply. It worries me that a straight one for one system might be a little too extreme. I think it might greatly inconvienence the player base that is need of our services. Maybe if the amount of people you could effect simultaniously increased with you skill level it would help balance it out.
- The other issue I have is that it seems to involve targeted healing. I don't know about anybody else, but I've seen plenty of group leaders, including myself, who's overlooked somebody by accident because we were caught up in other things. Though most entertainers take this in stride, since I think we're pretty used to it, I'm worried that accidently missing somebody for BF or wound healing won't go over very well. We know there's many impatient players who don't spend any extra time getting what they need done... they want to get in get healed and get out.
Your point #1 - The idea here is to create a need for people to play entertainers and for that need to be a viable part of every server community. If afew of thepeople who have three combat skills have to drop a combat skill to pick up entertainer skills again because there is a demand so be it. That sounds like a healthy game system to me not an inconvience.
Your point #2 - The idea here is to makehealing and enhancinga one on one experience. Joe walks up to you and contracts you for the service of a heal or enhance. You dance for Joe and Joe only healing him or enhancing him. The only way you are going to miss Joe is if youAFK or ifyou really aren't available to heal him anyway (busy with chat or *cough* other things *cough*.
I agree with your premise that elite entertainer professions be needed, as well as having a personal approach. However, I still am not convinced that the consequences of this wouldn't hurt performance. Sometimes there are literally dozens of people in a Cantina. It just seems to me that you would have tons of people asking you constantly to heal them, and you constantly having to use whatever command it is to directly heal someone over and over and over. Now, as someone who buffs constantly (or used to before buffbots), I remember how hectic it can get sometimes. I didn't use timer macros are anything like that. It was always manually /setperf'ing or inviting to groups, timing people, making sure I did what I had to do, while responding to /tells and everything else all at the same time. Sometimes it gets downright crazy having to keep up with all of it. I can only imagine that if we had to also target healing, it would get ten times worse. It's too much stress. LOL. That's all I'm saying. I agree with your premise, but I disagree with the implementation because I feel it would just be too stressful to have to try to keep up with it all while everybody and their mother is shouting at you to get healed.
Reachwind wrote:
Drygo wrote:
I also think that healing should remain passive, only for the simple fact that it would be an extraordinary amount of work to heal anybody and it would greatly take away any resemblance of a performance because you'd be spending too much time approving heals and you'd have time to do nothing else.
I'd like to address this point...
See what I am suggesting is that we change the overalldynamic from the idea of performing for a faceless crowd into a more personal one on one approach. You'd still concentrate on permorming in what I have suggested you'd just direct that performance to a player and SEE a result for your work. The performance you gave, depending on your character skill and the actions used (effects + flourish), would have a direct effect on the mind wounds and battle fatigue healed for that player.
I am not suggesting the removal of anything else though... I am only speaking of our healing and enhancing here. Those folks who enjoy hitting the outdoor stages where we can't even heal and putting on an actual show would still have absolutely no problem doing so! The only thing we'd be changing is the idea one dancerandmusician is all any town ever needs. One entertainer to heal one mind instead of one entetrainer to heal EVERY mind at once with control being placed in the hands of the entertainer.
I think it's important for the growth and survival of the eliteentertainer professions that every entertainer be needed and needed ATK.... Don't you?
Ah but you forget.... We already have a precedent. Doctors. Players will line up (in straight single file lines no less!) to get an enhancement from a doctor. You can very easily perform for one person, concentrating on them in this type of system. In a room with ten to twenty entertainers you won't even have to bother with lines as people will just hit the next available entertainer. Hell master level elites could even see people ASK for enhancements instead of just seeing an invite to group box pop up as Joe combat bursts through the door.
Drygo wrote:
I agree with your premise that elite entertainer professions be needed, as well as having a personal approach. However, I still am not convinced that the consequences of this wouldn't hurt performance. Sometimes there are literally dozens of people in a Cantina. It just seems to me that you would have tons of people asking you constantly to heal them, and you constantly having to use whatever command it is to directly heal someone over and over and over. Now, as someone who buffs constantly (or used to before buffbots), I remember how hectic it can get sometimes. I didn't use timer macros are anything like that. It was always manually /setperf'ing or inviting to groups, timing people, making sure I did what I had to do, while responding to /tells and everything else all at the same time. Sometimes it gets downright crazy having to keep up with all of it. I can only imagine that if we had to also target healing, it would get ten times worse. It's too much stress. LOL. That's all I'm saying. I agree with your premise, but I disagree with the implementation because I feel it would just be too stressful to have to try to keep up with it all while everybody and their mother is shouting at you to get healed.
Reachwind wrote:
Maryja wrote:
- This would dramatically increase demand, while at the same time the end of hologrinding and changes to recursive macros might very well decrease supply. It worries me that a straight one for one system might be a little too extreme. I think it might greatly inconvienence the player base that is need of our services. Maybe if the amount of people you could effect simultaniously increased with you skill level it would help balance it out.
- The other issue I have is that it seems to involve targeted healing. I don't know about anybody else, but I've seen plenty of group leaders, including myself, who's overlooked somebody by accident because we were caught up in other things. Though most entertainers take this in stride, since I think we're pretty used to it, I'm worried that accidently missing somebody for BF or wound healing won't go over very well. We know there's many impatient players who don't spend any extra time getting what they need done... they want to get in get healed and get out.
Your point #1 - The idea here is to create a need for people to play entertainers and for that need to be a viable part of every server community. If afew of thepeople who have three combat skills have to drop a combat skill to pick up entertainer skills again because there is a demand so be it. That sounds like a healthy game system to me not an inconvience.
I think people should play entertainers because they want to play entertainers, not because they feel like they're forced to because there's not enough to go around. People who don't want to be entertainers and who feel like they have to are responsable for buffbots and hologrinding. Demand is good... there should enough demand so those who want to play entertainers feel needed in their healing roll. That is very much a healthy game system. Too much demand is bad.
Your point #2 - The idea here is to makehealing and enhancinga one on one experience. Joe walks up to you and contracts you for the service of a heal or enhance. You dance for Joe and Joe only healing him or enhancing him. The only way you are going to miss Joe is if youAFK or ifyou really aren't available to heal him anyway (busy with chat or *cough* other things *cough*.
Hey what I do with rancors on my spare time is nobody's...err... ummm... nevermind... 
Anyways, I'm speaking only healing here no enhancement, but what about a system where one on one works better? You can still do the area effect crowd thing, but you can alsotarget somebody individually for a one on one heal at a much faster rate? It would mean people could still get healed if they wait long enough, but entertainers who want to would be able to market a faster heal to those impatient folks. It gives entertainers a marketable comodity with their healing abilities, while still offering an alternative (slower mass healing) to keep the demand in check.
kirah_ashlin wrote:
I do buff and I strongly advocate changes to the buff system to make it more controlable from the entertainer side (expecially for musicians who can't even tell if their buff took at all). That being said, as a social player I would not be happy with an interface or system that would detract from my ability to perform and socialize with my friends and patrons. I, personally,do not want a line of people standing in front of mewaiting their turn for a buff the way doctors do. There needs to be a melding of interfaces so that the pure healer, the pure entertainer and those of us inbetween can all benefit from the system without taking away from each other's playstyle or cause even more confusion on the part of our patrons.
That's why I am not asking for any interface changes or major design changes. I am also a social player. The only change I have been pushing for is in how we heal and enhance. The game mechanic that drives not our performing or ability to entertain.. But the way our service works for the people who DO NOT want to be entertained yet are a very much needed part to give our playstyle a credible and valuable partin the game economy.
The current system creates a need for one maybe two entertainers per cantina. Ever. By changing the base dynamic to a one on one healing then the need for more entertainers in there and players who chose to play as an entertainer would fill a valuable role in the game economy instead of being forth class citizenry.
I've hinted at this insome of my posts over the past 4 or 5 months but I will come out and say here that I agree with Flawed's assessment. I've had enough conversations with bot owners to know that changes to the macro system orunattended playsystem will only effect them for a short period of time. One thing the proposed anti-afk changes can not address is that the system as it is now encourages players to make the required visit to the cantina before combat rather than after. We were set up poorly in the first place and additions to our code has only made things messier. We are such a wreck that I don't think they can rebuild us without all but completely taking us apart first. Don't get me wrong..I love the entertainer professions and that is what keeps me in this game. But I honestly think our code is so messed up that the only way to fix us is to take us down to nothing and start over.
FlawedDiamond wrote:
There's only one thing that can save the Dance profession. Getting rid of Dancer buffs entirely.
No.. not save it... but create a set of conditions that will allow its ressurection.
