Dancer Archive
Thread: IF the devs remove macros this is what they should do
I just take it as a compliment when someone calls me a lady. I started doing that after one guy had the guts to admit why he thought I was. (If I used his words, it might get a *edit*, but it was something complimentary, in it's own way.)
Its ok Famous, we love you nonetheless 
As for the original post, to me it didn't make any sense whatsoever. As soon as you use a hotkey to execute a command you are already using a macro. So what you are suggesting is that we type /flo 1 etc all the way to Master? Are you insane? Did you drop on your head while trying to post this?
We all use macro's, even if they're just single commands, technicaly they're still macro's albeit simple ones.
I'm not entirely against macro's, and this is the first time I have actually used them. I mastered dancing twice before, all without afk all without ever using complex macro's. I have used them too, but I don't find them useful at all times. In fact, its actually near impossible to write a macro that makes your dancer flourish at the right time. I have to admit too tho, I am not very good in preventing drifting. So when I had my formal going, I moved all the way back, out of sight almost haha. Just so I didn't dance through everyone else. Oh, I was also not allowed to ask other dancers to try and not dance through/on me - I was then told to just move to a remote location so I cannot be bothered. Wow.
I still haven't used macro's for my musician, eventhough I gave up on it (just not enough skillpoints), but I tried to time my flourishes in such a manner that you hardly ever would hear the base tune. That base tune can get so incredably annoying, that I tried to string as many flourishes possible and then have a 4 to 8 break and string them together again. Tho honestly, I wish stringing was that easy for dancers as well. With ease you can stack up to 8 flourishes, making them all string together. unfortunately we're not that lucky - again.
Anyway, I still think I wouldn't mind mastering dancing even if I have to type everything. I care not. Lets give any elite profession the same treatment and see how well ppl will do in pvp. lol. That would be great fun. The fastest typers will wreck havoc on everyone. Heh, I am so glad I am a speedy typer
Can I ask you a simple question, for all you afk-haters?
Why are programmable macros even in the game?
If SOE is so against people macroing, there should be NO programmable macro in the game?
I mean what is the harm? If someone is AT the keyboard, instead of hitting F1 to shout "training 4/4/4/4 marksman at starport! PST" make them type it in every time? Heck they can use ctrl-up-arrow to repeat why have a macro?
I mean crafters use macros. Sure they still have to put resources into the schematic, but it does speed things up a ton! Lets take those away too.
And survey omg does anyone really build to survey 4 manually? That is AFK macroed overnight.
The developers put PROGRAMMABLE macros into the game, and you are telling people not to use them and that using them is a cheap short-cut and you hate them for using it? Please.
If they did not want macros to be loopable, then /ui action toolbarSlot00; should not be a valid entry.
But it is a valid entry. It was programmed as a valid entry, and it should remain a valid entry. Macros are in the game to make the game more enjoyable for people, to cut down the constant typing or finger-clicking or whatever. To hate someone for using a feature that was intentionally built into the game is like hating a Marksman for using his Bleed attack because its too powerful. The Bleed attack is there to help the marksman take out a large opponent, and the macro is there to reduce the finger-clicking and monotony of the game.
It is possible that the devs did not forsee AFK macroing because lets face it, they really are not very smart when it comes down to it. But it is not an exploit, and it is not a cheat, and it certainly is not a EULA violation.
Now let me throw this at you - I saw in a post on these boards earlier someone who was toying with some AFK macroers and not joining their group because they did not want to dance to help give those people xp and that person was already a master, and did not need the xp anymore. Thats all fine and good. But now this master, who needs no xp, dances solo in the busiest cantina, and a patron comes in to get their BF healed. They see a novice entertainer dancing, and a master dancer dancing. Who do you think that person is going to watch? They want to be in and out as fast as possible. Therefore, they watch the Master Dancer, who gets no benefit from the xp, and the poor novice guy gets no healing xp, basically ever. Is that good for the profession?
If all the masters were like that, and they spread out all over the galaxy there would be very few ways a novice entertainer could even make it to the elite profession. How would he get the healing xp? No master will group with him. The only recourse would be to find a real out of the way place where few people venture and there isnt a master there, and start to dance or play, and pray that once an hour he might get 100 healing xp. At that rate you could master entertainer in what a mere 5 years? And you expect this person to be AT THE KEYBOARD for this?
Macros are part of the game. If someone uses a macro to help them get up the ladder a bit so he can compete with the other masters, or purely for fscs, it does not matter. It is a tool in the game intentionally put in to take some of the legwork and grind out of the game so people can spend their playtime in an enjoyable fashion and not have it feel so much as a second job.
- Broog
Broog wrote:
Can I ask you a simple question, for all you afk-haters?
Why are programmable macros even in the game?
If SOE is so against people macroing, there should be NO programmable macro in the game?
I mean what is the harm? If someone is AT the keyboard, instead of hitting F1 to shout "training 4/4/4/4 marksman at starport! PST" make them type it in every time? Heck they can use ctrl-up-arrow to repeat why have a macro?
I mean crafters use macros. Sure they still have to put resources into the schematic, but it does speed things up a ton! Lets take those away too.
And survey omg does anyone really build to survey 4 manually? That is AFK macroed overnight.
The developers put PROGRAMMABLE macros into the game, and you are telling people not to use them and that using them is a cheap short-cut and you hate them for using it? Please.
If they did not want macros to be loopable, then /ui action toolbarSlot00; should not be a valid entry.
But it is a valid entry. It was programmed as a valid entry, and it should remain a valid entry. Macros are in the game to make the game more enjoyable for people, to cut down the constant typing or finger-clicking or whatever. To hate someone for using a feature that was intentionally built into the game is like hating a Marksman for using his Bleed attack because its too powerful. The Bleed attack is there to help the marksman take out a large opponent, and the macro is there to reduce the finger-clicking and monotony of the game.
It is possible that the devs did not forsee AFK macroing because lets face it, they really are not very smart when it comes down to it. But it is not an exploit, and it is not a cheat, and it certainly is not a EULA violation.
Now let me throw this at you - I saw in a post on these boards earlier someone who was toying with some AFK macroers and not joining their group because they did not want to dance to help give those people xp and that person was already a master, and did not need the xp anymore. Thats all fine and good. But now this master, who needs no xp, dances solo in the busiest cantina, and a patron comes in to get their BF healed. They see a novice entertainer dancing, and a master dancer dancing. Who do you think that person is going to watch? They want to be in and out as fast as possible. Therefore, they watch the Master Dancer, who gets no benefit from the xp, and the poor novice guy gets no healing xp, basically ever. Is that good for the profession?
If all the masters were like that, and they spread out all over the galaxy there would be very few ways a novice entertainer could even make it to the elite profession. How would he get the healing xp? No master will group with him. The only recourse would be to find a real out of the way place where few people venture and there isnt a master there, and start to dance or play, and pray that once an hour he might get 100 healing xp. At that rate you could master entertainer in what a mere 5 years? And you expect this person to be AT THE KEYBOARD for this?
Macros are part of the game. If someone uses a macro to help them get up the ladder a bit so he can compete with the other masters, or purely for fscs, it does not matter. It is a tool in the game intentionally put in to take some of the legwork and grind out of the game so people can spend their playtime in an enjoyable fashion and not have it feel so much as a second job.
- Broog
1. Actually, my dancer is also a Master Artisan, and I did do all surveying manually...not AFK.
2. The masters that go AFK in the cantinas solo and not in the group are actually taking away XP from the people who are there At the keyboard, and needing the xp...so therefore I think that is...hmm...what's the word...GRIEFING I believe is the correct term, but correct me if I'm wrong Tiaga...please. BUt wait....you said in your post that there would be no way for a novice entertainer to get up in the profession with the Master being AFK...that sort of contradicts what you said about AFK'ing being right.
3. Oh, and my Master Dancer was done totally at the keyboard...no AFK here, no looping macro either. I did use a macro to flourish...but it was to make a pretty dance routine and also let me do the other aspect of this game...say it with me...c'mon...I know you can...it's ROLLPLAY.
4. And if you would have read about the gripes, instead of justjumping into it blind, it's not about the macros, it's about the endless ocean of AFK people we're soupset about. The ones who sit right in the middle of the cantina spamming for tips and heals. And no, it's not against the EULA, it is cheating however...because the person is not sitting there at the keyboard, but letting the game play itself. Someone mentioned that maybe all games should play themselves and all we need to do is sit back and watch. If I'm going to do that, I'll just go watch TV.
Also, if the Dancer profession is just SOOOO BORING to sit at the keyboard and play, socialize and attempt to rollplay then the person doesn't need to be in the profession at all.
I agree with Tiaga also, I'll take the challenge, I had just as much fun at Novice entertainer with the little measly Basic dance as I do as Master and would be happy to do it again, just to prove a point.
And before you speak, yes I have a family, I have a full time job as well so don't say I'm a worthless person with no job or no life.
>Why are programmable macros even in the game?
To be used for those tasks that make the gaming life easier while you are playing.
>If SOE is so against people macroing, there should be NO programmable macro in the game?
SOE ( and the AFK haters )isn't against people macroing, but against unattended gameplay. Why do you think unattended gameplay by using 3rd party software is forbidden ?
>I mean what is the harm? If someone is AT the keyboard, instead of hitting F1 to shout "training 4/4/4/4 >marksman at starport! PST" make them type it in every time? Heck they can use ctrl-up-arrow to repeat >why have a macro?
I'd need a third and fourth quickbar slot for my sniper then. And do you really think my success in shooting something should depent on my use of error free english ? I'd have a blast in PvP, but that's another topic
>And survey omg does anyone really build to survey 4 manually? That is AFK macroed overnight.
Yeah. Why not just have it at character creation then ? AFKing is neither difficultnor requires skill... why make server flooding neccessary and not just give survey 4 to anyone ?
>The developers put PROGRAMMABLE macros into the game, and you are telling people not to use them and that using them is a cheap short-cut and you hate them for using it? Please.
Maybe you don't get the reasoning: No one of us want macros removed. We want unattended gameplay by whatever means banned. At the moment it's like murder by gun is punished, but if you stab someone with a knife it's ok. Unattended gameplay by 3rd party tools is banned, unattended gameplay by any other means needs to go, too. And just for the record, answering natures call leaving your toon on the dancefloor is not what we are talking about. We are talking about people setting up their toon to gind xp or money the most effective way during their work and sleep schedule, taking into account harming the other players as long as they have personal gain.
>If they did not want macros to be loopable, then /ui action toolbarSlot00; should not be a valid entry.
If the weaponsmith doesn't want to get shot, he should not have produced weapons. Every tool has it's use. Circumventing it and using it for something else besides it's intent is not justifiable by saying "but I can !". Dupes and exploits are in there as well.
>But it is a valid entry. It was programmed as a valid entry, and it should remain a valid entry. Macros are in the game to make the game more enjoyable for people, to cut down the constant typing or finger-clicking or whatever. To hate someone for using a feature that was intentionally built into the game is like hating a Marksman for using his Bleed attack because its too powerful. The Bleed attack is there to help the marksman take out a large opponent, and the macro is there to reduce the finger-clicking and monotony of the game.
Agreed. But unattended gameplay while someone is at work is not a shortcut for better gameplay. If it were, about the rest of all online games would be severely lacking. An aimbot in CS is not better gameplay, even if I would play better using one.
>It is possible that the devs did not forsee AFK macroing because lets face it, they really are not very smart when it comes down to it. But it is not an exploit, and it is not a cheat, and it certainly is not a EULA violation.
No, but we still don't like it and want it removed. BTW: The EULA still says it's forbidden. We all know SOEs words on this issue, but they should actually update the EULA to reflect their CSRs stance on this.
>Now let me throw this at you - I saw in a post on these boards earlier someone who was toying with some AFK macroers and not joining their group because they did not want to dance to help give those people xp and that person was already a master, and did not need the xp anymore. Thats all fine and good. But now this master, who needs no xp, dances solo in the busiest cantina, and a patron comes in to get their BF healed. They see a novice entertainer dancing, and a master dancer dancing. Who do you think that person is going to watch? They want to be in and out as fast as possible. Therefore, they watch the Master Dancer, who gets no benefit from the xp, and the poor novice guy gets no healing xp, basically ever. Is that good for the profession?
If the novice guy is online, I don't see why he cannot group with the master, have a lot of fun, learn a lot of things and get all the xp. If he's a newbie macrotainer whos not online himself, too bad. If he isn't online, he does not deserve any xp.
>If all the masters were like that, and they spread out all over the galaxy there would be very few ways a novice entertainer could even make it to the elite profession. How would he get the healing xp? No master will group with him. The only recourse would be to find a real out of the way place where few people venture and there isnt a master there, and start to dance or play, and pray that once an hour he might get 100 healing xp. At that rate you could master entertainer in what a mere 5 years? And you expect this person to be AT THE KEYBOARD for this?
Well, if he were at the keyboard, the situation you described wouldn't happen. I haven't met masters refusing to group with people just because they were newbies ( might happen once in a while if I want to buff or play virtuoso, but that's just the way it was since beta ).
>Macros are part of the game. If someone uses a macro to help them get up the ladder a bit so he can compete with the other masters, or purely for fscs, it does not matter. It is a tool in the game intentionally put in to take some of the legwork and grind out of the game so people can spend their playtime in an enjoyable fashion and not have it feel so much as a second job.
Exploits are a part of the game. If someone uses an exploit to help them get up the ladder a bit so he can compete with the other masters, or purely for fscs, it does not matter. Or does it ?
Broog wrote:
Can I ask you a simple question, for all you afk-haters?
Why are programmable macros even in the game?
Can I ask something of all you AFK macroers.. Why is anything else in the game? Ever wonder what the game would be like if you could macro everything? Well, why don't you go and <a href="http://www.progressquest.com">find out</a>. Not terribly interesting is it.
I can answer the opposite of your question.. I can tell you, with 100% certainty, that they did NOT put in macros to allow people to gain experience while AFK. If you deny this, you are delusional.
[... cut irrelevent stuff about non-AFK macros ...]
And survey omg does anyone really build to survey 4 manually? That is AFK macroed overnight.
And they already tried to stop that once. It didn't work so well. It is only time before they try again.
The developers put PROGRAMMABLE macros into the game, and you are telling people not to use them and that using them is a cheap short-cut and you hate them for using it? Please.
They also put vendors in the game. That doesn't mean you can use them to dup resources. (No, I'm not saying how because I don't know. Not to mention if I did the post would be deleted for it, if not worse. I just know there were some dups involving vendors.)
If they did not want macros to be loopable, then /ui action toolbarSlot00; should not be a valid entry.
And why says that was their intent? Off the top of my head, other uses of that command:
- Equipping a set of armor
- Unequipping said armor to heal faster
- Opening a crafting tool from a macro
- Using a specific stim/wound packfrom a macro
- Setting up a macro to equip a certain weapon and do a special involving that weapon then unequip it when done
- Equipping an instrument and starting playing music at the same time.
And that's without spending time to actually sit down and reason out uses. Looping a macro is just one small tiny thing that can be done with it. I am sure you will find that it was not THE intended use of it.
But it is a valid entry. It was programmed as a valid entry, and it should remain a valid entry. Macros are in the game to make the game more enjoyable for people, to cut down the constant typing or finger-clicking or whatever. ...
So stop using them to make the game LESS enjoyable to people. What difference does it make to you? You aren't there to enjoy it or not. Those of us that are, have less enjoyment as a result of the mass of macro use.
... To hate someone for using a feature that was intentionally built into the game is like hating a Marksman for using his Bleed attack because its too powerful. The Bleed attack is there to help the marksman take out a large opponent, and the macro is there to reduce the finger-clicking and monotony of the game.
Hardly a fair comparison. The bleed attack was explicitly put in place by the game designers to cause the opponent to take a DOT effect. The macros were not put there to allow you to make master while out at the movies.
It is possible that the devs did not forsee AFK macroing because lets face it, they really are not very smart when it comes down to it. But it is not an exploit, and it is not a cheat, and it certainly is not a EULA violation.
If you're so much smarter than them, where can I sign up to your perfect MMORPG that you must have made, since you could do it so much better. On second thought, I probably wouldn't want to, since it would probably be pretty much like the one I linked above.
Now let me throw this at you - I saw in a post on these boards earlier someone who was toying with some AFK macroers and not joining their group because they did not want to dance to help give those people xp and that person was already a master, and did not need the xp anymore. Thats all fine and good. But now this master, who needs no xp, dances solo in the busiest cantina, and a patron comes in to get their BF healed. They see a novice entertainer dancing, and a master dancer dancing. Who do you think that person is going to watch? They want to be in and out as fast as possible. Therefore, they watch the Master Dancer, who gets no benefit from the xp, and the poor novice guy gets no healing xp, basically ever. Is that good for the profession?
So other people aren't allowed to tell you how to play, but you ARE allowed to tell them how to play?
Guess what, as a musician I like to play MUSIC. I will not join a group, as a musician or dancer, that I can not bear to listen to. As a dancer, I like to perform. Are you telling me I can't play in cantinas with a large group of people AFK who don't even have any idea what starwars1 really sounds like?
I'll go wherever I want, and start dancing or plop down my nalargon and start playing. Anyone who is ATK and wishes to join me is more than welcome to.
If all the masters were like that, and they spread out all over the galaxy there would be very few ways a novice entertainer could even make it to the elite profession. How would he get the healing xp? No master will group with him. The only recourse would be to find a real out of the way place where few people venture and there isnt a master there, and start to dance or play, and pray that once an hour he might get 100 healing xp. At that rate you could master entertainer in what a mere 5 years? And you expect this person to be AT THE KEYBOARD for this?
If it were to start to become a problem (Very unlikely, as many people would find that offensive and specifically go group with newbies as mastersjust to spite the people who did that...) I would be for some way to resolve the problem. Wouldn't you?
Well guess what, AFK HAS become a problem, and so I am for a way to resolve the problem. Why aren't you?
Kind of amusing how you are playing up some hypothetical situation as why people should be AFK. Most people just come up front and say it directly. It doesn't make it any more valid either way though.
Macros are part of the game. If someone uses a macro to help them get up the ladder a bit so he can compete with the other masters, or purely for fscs, it does not matter. It is a tool in the game intentionally put in to take some of the legwork and grind out of the game so people can spend their playtime in an enjoyable fashion and not have it feel so much as a second job.
Turrets are part of the game. If someone find a way to take out a turret without any risk of being hit, so he can compete with the other guilds, or purely for faction points, it does not matter. It is a tool the game intentionally put in to take some of the difficulty of taking out a base so people can spend their playtime doing missions.
Blamj wrote:
That means you too raven, I don't think your swinging male twi'lek on test center got that far without macros.
actually... the correspondents can access the xp terminal, so raven definitely didn't use macros to level up O.o
Ok, I think some of you are living in some sort of dream world. You think that by getting rid of AFKing, suddenly the profession will be wonderful and cantinas will be the enormous social centers that they were when the game was first released.
Many people have quit playing. The cantinas will never be the place they were in the initial release, because if you noticed, when the game first came out, all of the server loads were "Heavy" or at least "Moderate". All of them. Now, most of them are "Light" or at peak times "Moderate." This would seem to indicate that either (1) Far less people are playing, or (2) Far less people are playing at the same time. Either way, there will not be a huge influx of people flooding the cantinas looking for that special chat.
People will still be trying to master dancer regardless of whether or not AFK macros exist, because of holocrons. They will go to the most crowded cantinas, and there they will group up and dance. If they are not AFK, I assure you they will be complaining about how much the profession sucks. If you don't believe me, you're fooling yourself. I've heard it time and time and time again, and you see it constantly on the boards. If you don't want to be a dancer, you're not going to like the profession. Period.
There are (on the two servers I play on) four hubs of cantina activity. Theed, Coronet, Anchorhead, and Bestine. Which means that there are a dozen other cantinas that do not have AFK macroers in them, or at most they have one or two. I have yet to see players who are so offended by AFKing grouped together and socializing and reliving the good old days in the cantinas without AFKers. There are a dozen to choose from, yet they sit empty. If AFKing is THAT BAD, I fail to understand why people don't go to the cantinas where there are no AFKers. And yes, there are patrons on those planets who could use Entertainers.
If you take the macroing away from the people that are using it, they aren't suddenly going to transform into the wonderful chatty socialiizing butterflies who /flirt and /giggle and /cheer and /whisper and have all kinds of fun that people were doing in the beginning of the game. The game has settled more or less into it's core player base. Like it or leave it, people have already decided. Recycling an argument 100 times does not in any way make it a better argument.
Many players are grateful when they find anAt Keyboard Entertainer. They tip generously, and mighteven stick around for a few minutes of conversation.Those are the rewards for beingaNon-AFKer. But until there is some real content to the Entertainer classes,the vast majority of people going through the class will have no desire to be there. It will simply be a means to an end.
Just curious as to why an ATK entertainer shouldn't use macros? I spend many hours a week atk, more than should be considered mentally healthy in fact heh. I run macros for my flos. I did not simply loop 1-4 and repeat, tried to give it thought ( more for music than dance am only dance knowledge 4, but this is an issue for all of us). I tell ya all, ill be damned if im going to hit flo's over and over and over and...... ad nauseum. I chat, i swap clothes, even flirt with the rare guy that can act the gentleman and not take it too seriously.
Also, check the most recent forum poll. When i last saw a whopping 2% of players declared entertainer/music/dancer as their main profession. They are not going to alter the game in a major way to appease a tiny portion of the community. Sad? yes. True? Very(
What the developers really need to do is to make the game so much fun that no one wants to afk macro.
Imagine a game like this:
"I could afk macro while I am at school, but if I do, I am going to miss X, Y, and Z, and I do not want to miss those things, so instead of afk macroing, I am going to wait until I get home from school and actually play at the keyboard."
Despite the title of the thread, we're not really talking about that. Noone has an issue with using macros to enhance your at-keyboard play, it's AFK play that people are against.
"When i last saw a whopping 2% of players declared entertainer/music/dancer as their main profession. They are not going to alter the game in a major way to appease a tiny portion of the community. Sad? yes. True? Very("
If they don't alter the game, that number will drop even further. They have an obligation, and in fact even stated it as one of their mission goals for this game, to make every profession fun and rewarding. I would argue that a profession that only 2% of the player base is playing is the profession that needs the most work. I'm sure the chefs agree with me and the fact that the chefs are getting a big upgrade shortly is proof that the devs do not agree with your assertion.
- J
>What the developers really need to do is to make the game so much fun that no one wants to afk macro.
Which is an impossible task. Macroing is used to gain xp and money while you are away. This will always be tempting. If it were so much fun, you can do it AGAIN after you come home. You cannot remove exploitive gameplay by incentives. The dark side is always more tempting to many.
When i last saw a whopping 2% of players declared entertainer/music/dancer as their main profession. They are not going to alter the game in a major way to appease a tiny portion of the community. Sad? yes. True? Very(
Last time I checked, the PvP population was below 3%. They are not going to alter the game for those minority. Oh, wait, they did. Maybe because they pay more than the entertainers. Oh, wait, they don't. 