Dancer Archive

Thread: Automating buffing..

Goldy_Lhim
Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:22 pm
#14

we don't need no silly music to dance!


not if you have music in yer head! .... what... oh come on... I can't be the only one...



G O L D Y
Event:
Holiday Party H A W T P A N T S
D A N C E & M U S I C Ent-Mode FTW!
Join Kauri's Entertainer ChatI M A G E D E S I G N

PoetDancer
Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:39 pm
#15

This is the aspect I really do not like about buffing, and its effect on what we do at the keys in this profession. The timing, protocols, and flourishes are the easy part. However, the problem is that we could do all of this and have it be for naught if the procedure is not followed exactly between the patron and the performer. Because as much as we'd like to think that we do the buffing, we can do nothing if a patron is not willing to /watch--especially in terms of something like a buff, which requires both ends to do procedures in the correct sequence. This only becomes more of a problem when patrons are willing to pay you more if you can get them out of the cantina faster.


And therefore, If this is the only means we have of getting paid, then it would behoove us to issue as many error free "/" commands as possible. Which changes our playstyle. Now we have to spam out large bulletins like a starport spammer saying, "Get your 105% buffs here for 5k! 2 hour buff in 3.5 minutes!"


And the spam does not end with the advertisement. Because in order to ensure that the patron gets his or her buff we so advertised, you have to take responsibility for their actions as well. Which causes dancers to tell a patron when to /startwatching, how much time they need to wait, and when to /stopwatching. Because even if its not our fault things got "wonked," we nonetheless have to suffer the consequences of wasted time and no tip to show for it.


But its greater effect is to transform this profession into onethat rewardscreative, immersive, and amusing play into one that rewards merely clear, error free, and--quite frankly--automated and canned responses to achieve a predictible, speedy, and riskfreeproduct.When a profession requires this amongst its members, we cease to be a profession full of life and open-ended gameplay. We instead become a profession that is sterile, boring, and rather closed as to the gameplay options.


And therefore, I urge us to reconsider this buff system for the reasons Scipionus describes. It not only makes bots the prefered distributor of buffs due to the fact that the complexity can be automated. It also makes our gameplay much more automated and "bot like" in order to do the same things.



Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
Tiaga
Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:28 pm
#16

Outside of songs or prepared speeches, I keep anything I say from a macro or alias in /tell, or in /groupsay at worst. Everything I say in spatial that isn't a song, I type myself.



Inside my heart is breaking, my make-up may be flaking
But my smile still stays on
My soul is painted like the wings of butterflies
Fairytales of yesterday will grow but never die
I can fly - my friends
SWG Entertainer.com Fashions by TK

Mistwaver
Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:36 pm
#17

I don't like this, and usually when I see someone running a macro that says this, I find an entertainer who looks like they're at the keyboard having a conversation



Reeli Owoo
Jedi Knight
TC Roughnecks
Proud TC-Prime player for over 2 years and counting.

TC-Prime players get pwned daily, multiple times a day.
Weezman
Miz Owoo
Weezman again
Aleyo
Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:46 pm
#18

I think Sirii's comments have validity in that the more we have to prearrange to get the buff working, the more we have to say, the less likely we are to want to say it uniquely every time, the more we sound like a bot, the less entertaining we become.
Given that, what have people's experiences been regarding wonked buffs? I don't know if I've been extraordinarily lucky, but I give a very limited amount of instruction for a buff (one of the 'possible wonkers' threads had way more things listed than I ever mention), and I rarely end up with a wonked buff. In the rare occassions it is wonked, I've only had it fail a second time once.
Given the rarity of the situation, I've not taken to explaining this and that about what to do and not do when receiving the buff, and so I've been able to sound less robotic and focus more on being entertaining. But wonking is obviously an issue, else we wouldn't have so much discussion about it. What do ya'll explain ahead of time, and what kind of success do you have doing so?
Me, I don't see Sirii's fears being realized in my daily experience.

Ok, I'm going to stay away from the word wonk for a while.. when did it become the semi-official word for a messed up buff?




Scipionus Mentus
Master Musician, Master Entertainer, Master Dancer - Tempest
-I support ATK people and playstyles.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

Aleyo
Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:39 am
#19

First of all, this isn't about buffbots. See the sticky.

Does anyone else cringe when they get what is obviously macro'd interaction with someone? This sort of thing annoys me (as a recipient, not as a non-interested observer) more than a completely afk character.
If I'm still walking around the corner into the cantina, and I hear "Welcome Scipionus Mentus, to the Bestine cantina! Come in and enjoy the dancing and music, and let us heal your mind!" then I have no reason to believe the the person who told me that took the time to see who I was, see if they recognized me, or anything specific to me. I think of it like the recorded messages I sometimes get on incoming phone calls.
This is even more prevalent for people who are buffing, perhaps for the reason that there is so much that can make it go wrong that the customer needs to be made aware of. I certainly don't want to demean the work of those who have created useful macros/aliases for timing and instructing on the buffs (Tiaga's uber macro comes to mind). Those always impress me. On the other hand, I feel that this sort of approach lacks the personal touch, and especially does not allow for the customer who already knows how things work, or situations when say, there are no other entertainers around (why would you tell me not to watch or listen to someone else?).
Anyways, I was wondering what other peoples thoughts are on this. I'll go ahead and describe what I do, but I don't want people to feel I'm being an elitist. I know people like to handle these things differently. When I'm the recipient of automated interaction, I don't like it, so I try not to do it. Maybe other people feel differently, and that's fine.
When someone comes in and asks for a buff, I'll volunteer, and explain my pricing, if there's any. Once the buff is agreed to, if they aren't already listening to me, I'll tell them to please start listening to me (and ask if they have a music request if they seem to be somewhat social). Once I see the hand clapping, I'll check if they have a weapon equipped and tell them it can interfere, so it's probably best to put it away for now. Finally, I'll do "/setp;/alarmaddin 0 3 buff done" and then tell them it'll be about 3 minutes (the delay in my typing now, and the delay in my typing later, will get those extra 20 seconds necessary). At this point, I'll watch and see if they target anyone else, but in the meantime I'll usually ask what the buff is for, see if I can get some conversation going. When my alarm goes off, I'll tell them in the next pause in conversation (i.e. I won't interrupt if he's in the middle of telling me a story) that the buff's all set, and they should /stoplisten and make sure everything worked out ok. If it didn't, I'll give a reason or two why it might not have, and tell them we can try again (this time not giving any instruction at all, as they already know what's going on). The only macro involved in all this is when I turn on my 5 flourishes macro to make sure I have enough flourishes going for the 3min20sec buff. Anyways, this is obviously very adaptable for someone I know has gotten buffs before, someone who's a newb and doesn't even know how to listen to a musician, etc.

P.S. This is in the dancer forum because of all the player interaction threads that have been here lately, despite my being a musician first and foremost.




Scipionus Mentus
Master Musician, Master Entertainer, Master Dancer - Tempest
-I support ATK people and playstyles.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

Dreamland
Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:46 am
#20

It's led me to wonder... If the people buffing this way are predominantly telemarketers.
picklesSW
Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:47 am
#21

I'm with ya.

Every word that comes out of my virtual mouth is hand typed and unique, typos and all. I don't have a single macro that says a word. I completely agree with macros making life easier, but I don't think that should extend to social interaction.

The only time I feel macro'ed text is necessary is for information-type messages during a time-sensitive crisis, such as during a battle, when one doesn't have the time to type.

However, I'm not overly bothered by others' use of macros to talk. I just, for the most part, ignore it.




Panthu
Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:55 am
#22

I don't like it and don't use any chat in my buffing macros because it feels "robot like"... the one area where it is really useful seems to be with timers, but I just do those by hand too. *shrug*




P A N T H U Y GlitterUsagi
M i n d B o d y S p i r i t
Dancer ImageDesigner Doc

Goldy_Lhim
Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:58 am
#23

MUSICAL DEMON I CAST THEE BACK TO THY REALM!!!!!


hehhehee ok silliness aside.


My thoughts are that no macro that you use is geniune or should count as role-playing. Canned remarks even if aliased responses are just canned remarks in the end. However, I use a macro to buff and while I first tried to make it roleplaying based, people became confused. They didn't want to think they wanted to be buffed. So I /sighed and created a basic macro that buffs well 98% of the time (you know sometimes it just DOESN'T work ), customers are happy, I am worry free about my buffing method and conversasion continues as normal.


My macro spits out 3 lines of instructions/information about their buff and no more. It times everything for me and even calls them by name. I am surprised at the number of folks that respond to my macro simply because it calls them by name but is it truely personal? I would say not.


What I do love about my macro is that in that 3 minutes I'm free to talk about whatever I wish with my customer. I don't need to set alarms, I don't need to call them back to the computer if they decide to go afk, I don't really need to think about the buff at all. The service requested it being supplied while I get to proceed on to my duties of being entertaining and having fun in the cantina. Yes I remind folks not to meditate if I catch them doing it or not to /listen if I see their head turn to the master musician at my side. My macro doesn't explain the ins and outs of buffing, frankly I don't want to hear it every time and many of my customers know it already. So while my macro is like I said a macro and therefore by default impersonal, I've done the best I can to keep the customer in the loop on his/her buff status, personalizing it as best I can by calling them by name and freeing my thoughts and fingers to the more important task of entertaining my customer with witty banter


See this post for details on my buff macro:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=dancer&message.id=34800



G O L D Y
Event:
Holiday Party H A W T P A N T S
D A N C E & M U S I C Ent-Mode FTW!
Join Kauri's Entertainer ChatI M A G E D E S I G N

Page 2 of 2