Dancer Archive
Thread: Making Cantinas
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Lunah75
Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:29 pm
#14
Well excuse me, last time I checked the politician boards a theatre was a city structure placable at level 4 city. Sorry I was wrong, they must have changed it on tc and not posted it for the rest of us to know. Next time I wont bother to try to answer.
Ravenmist
Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:09 am
#15
Lunah hon, I hope you got the point I was just teasing you. It was an honest and easy mistake and not many would know differently cause there isn't many player owned Theaters out there, hehe. I was just giving you a hard time about it, sorry if you thought I was being serious.
Lunah75 wrote:
Well excuse me, last time I checked the politician boards a theatre was a city structure placable at level 4 city. Sorry I was wrong, they must have changed it on tc and not posted it for the rest of us to know. Next time I wont bother to try to answer.
DenisaGalen
Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:49 am
#16
Raven,
Did you get a chance to test transferring a player cantina / theatre to a non-master dancer / musician ?
I've met so many people lately who all asked me to place a cantina in their cities for them since none of them had a master dancer / musician... I can think of atleast 4 cities that asked me for help and I would gladly, temporarily, pickup my large house to help them out.
The irony is that I walked into Coronet and found nothing but AFK masters.
Lunah75
Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:42 am
#17
Yes honestly I did think you were serious, I am glad you weren't. I would love to have a backroom to put my stuff in! So can you tell us then how many lots it takes up and maint rate, and did they fix it so healing works not only backstage? Not that I will place one since I have my cantina now that rocks, but I am still curious as we have another master dancer in town that maybe could place the theatre. 
PoetDancer
Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:18 pm
#18
Let me examine the hard, sad truth about the new cities that are sprouting up all over the galaxy. I have been to several in this short time, and one thing has come to my attention.....where are the people? I think the most I ever saw in one city were five people who looked pretty bored. I keep hearing about lovely cities with mission terminals, vendors, and even cantinas now, but still, where oh WHERE did all the people go? This can be traced to several root causes:
1) Too many cities for an already underpopulated galaxy: Even before player cities we had a population crunch. Nobody around Doaba Gurfeil, Kereen, Mos Espa, Mos Eisely, and don't even MENTION Talus or Rori. These are GOOD cities, with starports and all, and people tended to go to the capitals. It seems to only make sense, after all, people go where other people are GUARANTEED to be at for training, goods, services, and to meet up with groups. Now, not only do we have too few people for the SWG cities, but add on top of that at least 50 new cities, and you have just streached the community to the breaking point. Like I said, at the most I have seen five people in a player city and when I logged on about 1:00 last night there was NOBODY in the Naboo or Lok cities.
2) Too few support staff: Its hard enough to find a live entertainer at 1:00 AM even BEFORE player cities, let alone now. The PAs' rush to build a city of their own has blown up into a major employment shortage, where there are too few entertainers for too many cities. I imagine it will be the same for doctors too. Sure, they'll be plenty of cantinas, but nobody will be in them for any length of time.
3) Too much of a lot cost for no return: Really, do tell me, what incentive do I personally have to lay down five lots, pay maintenance on those lots, and wait around for someone to just "happen" to walk in, with no guarantee I'll even get tipped? Especially since I can't own a large home at the same time? That's why I am sure that I will not be performing where I lay my cantina down (and I am beginning to realize that maybe cities are not ready for support venues until they get faction terminals...and maybe still won't be truly worth an entertainmer's time), because I'll simply have to go elsewhere, like Dantooine Mining Outpost, just to earn a living. I think the developers really didn't look closely at this situation, because why should an entertainer not lay down five potential money making harvesters just so they can have a cantina that few...if ANY players will go to? Sure, one could pay me to sit in an empty cantina, but seeing as how on an average 4 hour stint I can make 25k, would YOUR mayor pay this ammount so I can be bored? What if for whatever reason I want to leave early and/or not log on at all in a given time? Of course, you can (as many cities have done) offer to give me a free house, and/or cantina, but then that's part of the problem, isn't it? Most of these properties are owned by alt accounts that are used for lots and to artificially make the population larger, which still doesn't alieviate the problem of too few people on line at a given time at a given venue. The only incentive I or any entertainer needs is an assurance that people will need it and it is a problem neither militias, nor research zoning, nor even shuttleports will solve. I think it would help a GREAT DEAL if the developers made the cantina a lotless plot, or made the lots reasonable like 1 or maybe 2, but really now, what incentive does little unguilded me have to use up half my lots on a structure that costs ME money, when I can dance at Dantooine outposts where there is a DEMAND for me that I need not pay for?
4) A Reliance on AFK Entertainment: You think AFK entertainment is bad now? You haven't seen anything yet! Seems that live entertainment was able to survive the Macro grinders, the Holo grinders, the ad-spatial-spammers, but I don't think live entertainment will survive player cities. Seems every guild is grinding a macro bunny to lay down a cantina and macro 24/7. As someone who takes her live entertainment seriously, this gives me even LESS incentive to go to a player city to perform....and more incentive to ask entertainers to macro in my cantina, if I choose to lay one down (which, the more I look at it, is a bad idea).
Now, I'm not necessarily withdrawing my plan to set down a cantina in a player city, but I may have to consider what I have seen in the last few weeks to really decide if ANY city deserves to have a cantina, be it mine or anyone elses. When I see hardly anyone in the HUGE city of Mos Arch Mesa, and poor Lovette trying to busy herself when nobody is there.....or I see Roxy's cantina abandoned at 1:00AM..... or I have a desperate /tell from some guy out of Imperial Fist BEGGING me to come to the Death Star Bar to give a buff, it makes me think that perhaps there needs to be less entertainment venues, and more entertainers in the venues we already have....coupled with more people to make it worth an entertainer's time to sit in a player cantina. I am currently in the process of creating a scholarship/stipend program to do just that.
1) Too many cities for an already underpopulated galaxy: Even before player cities we had a population crunch. Nobody around Doaba Gurfeil, Kereen, Mos Espa, Mos Eisely, and don't even MENTION Talus or Rori. These are GOOD cities, with starports and all, and people tended to go to the capitals. It seems to only make sense, after all, people go where other people are GUARANTEED to be at for training, goods, services, and to meet up with groups. Now, not only do we have too few people for the SWG cities, but add on top of that at least 50 new cities, and you have just streached the community to the breaking point. Like I said, at the most I have seen five people in a player city and when I logged on about 1:00 last night there was NOBODY in the Naboo or Lok cities.
2) Too few support staff: Its hard enough to find a live entertainer at 1:00 AM even BEFORE player cities, let alone now. The PAs' rush to build a city of their own has blown up into a major employment shortage, where there are too few entertainers for too many cities. I imagine it will be the same for doctors too. Sure, they'll be plenty of cantinas, but nobody will be in them for any length of time.
3) Too much of a lot cost for no return: Really, do tell me, what incentive do I personally have to lay down five lots, pay maintenance on those lots, and wait around for someone to just "happen" to walk in, with no guarantee I'll even get tipped? Especially since I can't own a large home at the same time? That's why I am sure that I will not be performing where I lay my cantina down (and I am beginning to realize that maybe cities are not ready for support venues until they get faction terminals...and maybe still won't be truly worth an entertainmer's time), because I'll simply have to go elsewhere, like Dantooine Mining Outpost, just to earn a living. I think the developers really didn't look closely at this situation, because why should an entertainer not lay down five potential money making harvesters just so they can have a cantina that few...if ANY players will go to? Sure, one could pay me to sit in an empty cantina, but seeing as how on an average 4 hour stint I can make 25k, would YOUR mayor pay this ammount so I can be bored? What if for whatever reason I want to leave early and/or not log on at all in a given time? Of course, you can (as many cities have done) offer to give me a free house, and/or cantina, but then that's part of the problem, isn't it? Most of these properties are owned by alt accounts that are used for lots and to artificially make the population larger, which still doesn't alieviate the problem of too few people on line at a given time at a given venue. The only incentive I or any entertainer needs is an assurance that people will need it and it is a problem neither militias, nor research zoning, nor even shuttleports will solve. I think it would help a GREAT DEAL if the developers made the cantina a lotless plot, or made the lots reasonable like 1 or maybe 2, but really now, what incentive does little unguilded me have to use up half my lots on a structure that costs ME money, when I can dance at Dantooine outposts where there is a DEMAND for me that I need not pay for?
4) A Reliance on AFK Entertainment: You think AFK entertainment is bad now? You haven't seen anything yet! Seems that live entertainment was able to survive the Macro grinders, the Holo grinders, the ad-spatial-spammers, but I don't think live entertainment will survive player cities. Seems every guild is grinding a macro bunny to lay down a cantina and macro 24/7. As someone who takes her live entertainment seriously, this gives me even LESS incentive to go to a player city to perform....and more incentive to ask entertainers to macro in my cantina, if I choose to lay one down (which, the more I look at it, is a bad idea).
Now, I'm not necessarily withdrawing my plan to set down a cantina in a player city, but I may have to consider what I have seen in the last few weeks to really decide if ANY city deserves to have a cantina, be it mine or anyone elses. When I see hardly anyone in the HUGE city of Mos Arch Mesa, and poor Lovette trying to busy herself when nobody is there.....or I see Roxy's cantina abandoned at 1:00AM..... or I have a desperate /tell from some guy out of Imperial Fist BEGGING me to come to the Death Star Bar to give a buff, it makes me think that perhaps there needs to be less entertainment venues, and more entertainers in the venues we already have....coupled with more people to make it worth an entertainer's time to sit in a player cantina. I am currently in the process of creating a scholarship/stipend program to do just that.
DenisaGalen
Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:12 am
#19
What troubles me is that every player cantina is marked on the map as manned, I visited all player cantinas on Corellia last night and only our cantina was manned.
I hope this get fixed so that we can register there like every other venue we can play at, making cantinas only registerable by faction members is not a good idea since most entertainers I know like to stay out of the GCW because over the months we made friends on both Imperial and Rebel side.
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