Dancer Archive
Thread: Okay folks, feedback time for you all on this list here.
AFK entertainers are more pressing than making mind buffs easier. FAR more pressing. And player cantinas will do (hear me now) ZILCH.
*Stop AFK Macroing NOW!*
meeuki wrote:
... it's my opinion that this issue cannot be rectified without serious detriment to a number of classes gameplay and this has a big part to play in why the developers will shy away from the issue. not putting it on the list is a smart idea since it will be ignored for the time being anyway.
I totaly agree it will be ignored, but not sure that's a reason not to put it on the list (top 5). The Dev's arn't dumb, they know this is an issue amung entertainers, but they also don't get to troll these boards as much as we do. The don't get to play the game as much as we do. There are less aware of the issue as we are. I agree with Pickels last statement. The fact that every thread turns into an AFK debate means it's the #1 issue amung Dancers. I am not saying the number 1 answer should be "Stop AFK Dancing", It might read something like "AFK Dancing as it's implemneted now is the biggest rift in the dancing comunity".
How it's fixed is up to the Devs, but it needs to be fixed.
As for a abuot what the non dancing people think, there considerations should not be voiced in this document. This is a report to improve what the dancers think should be done about there own class, not what the rest of the server thinks. My guess is if you took a server wide pole on should eyeshot stay in the game, you would have every BH saying yes and almost every non BH saying no.
I don't think the issue on AFK is going to be solved or go away any time soon, and given that, let's get the things that CAN be worked on, worked on.
As for "lots of people do it" -- yeah, they do, but the correspondents are not really representatives of the 'dabblers' or people who 'try out' a profession for a little while and then drop it the day after they master (which I have seen many AFK'ed masters do). They are supposed to be representing the dedicated members of the profession who play it a lot for a long time. By the same token, the CH representative really isn't going to try and represent people who just take novice CH and 1 or 2 boxes to get some "leet pets"... he's got to represent the serious CHs who are devoted to the profession because they like it, not because of what it "gets them." Yeah lots of people exploit certain CH boxes and ignore the rest because it gets them some sort of a gain over their "main" profession. And those people shouldn't have ZERO voice. But the real CHs who are into the profession for its own sake, even if they are in the minority, are the ones for whom changes will really matter, and for whom the developers need to make sure the class works right. Because at the end of the day, a "dabbler" or fly-by-nighter really doesn't care what you do to the profession, but the dedicated people do.
Think about it this way. In game, lots of people are AFK Macroers. On the board, most of the people who post seem to detest AFK Macroing and don't do it themselves. Why the disparity? Because the board posters are dedicated dancers and not fly-by-nighters or dabblers. The latter group is busy reading the boards of their "real" profession (be it doctor, scout, CH, or whatever) -- the one they care about and really play for real when they are at keyboard -- and are not likely to care enough about dancing to post here.
So Ravenmist is representing to the developers, "Here is the opinion that has been floated by those dancers who care enough about the profession to float an opinion." You're right. That doesn't represent the people who don't care enough to speak up, but then... they don't care, so it probably won't bother them all that much either.
Most of them wouldn't get mad and quit SWG if you took AFK Macroing out of the game tomorrow. They'd just move on to another profession that bored them less. But the dedicated dancers (or members of any profession) are liable to care about it enough that the way things are implemented can ruin their experience (or make it wonderful) (e.g. falling). Do you think an AFK Macroer cares how often his bot-toon falls? Doubt it. XP is the same and healing is the same whether you fall or not. But someone at keyboard is very likely to care because he sees it and it bothers him.
As for whether player cantinas can solve this -- not really. What will happen, I presume, is that certain player-run cantinas will outlaw AFK Macroing, and anyone lucky enough to be able to get a gig in one (which may or may not be difficult to do, probably depending on the cantina) may be happy, but the public cantinas will remain as they always were. If anything this may make it worse, as the actives go into the player-run cantinas, and eventually all the "standard" towns with public cantinas are left with only AFKers.
However, what Ravenmist is sort of saying here is, "AFK is an issue but with player cities the dynamic may change, so let's wait and see what happens before we do anything drastic," and I can live with that.
C
AFK Entertainers
This should be #1. And it does not need DEV time like the other points. All it needs are dedicated CSRs who enforce existing rules.
I agree 101% that afking should not be on the list.
I would love to see the whole faction points for dancers thing, but this doesn't go far enough...
How about holocrons, personally I would give up combat if there was a way, ANY way, for a dancing Ranger (or similarly advanced character) to get their own Holo, I for one will never be able to afford to buy a Holo with dancing tips, I have probably only gotten 10k in tips in 4 months.
Mind buffing self, should be #1 (imo) due to the definate feasability of a hotfix and not a 1-2 month wait, (plus as it stands now it is more desirable to have a dancing friend then to actually BE a dancer, this is not right), so we could then move on to something else, this goes along with the other proposed mind buff fixes detailed in the original post.
Obviously Entertainer missions should scale.
"A few reasonable (non bard like) field abilities? Ability to distract mobs? Npcs? (short stun, confusion, draw attention/aggro?) (hey, it makes sense I think) Perhaps a resistance to B.F." -----Yay! Our corrospondent has won me over with this solution, should be #2 on the list. But as I suggested on a previous post, how about if a dancer is active in the group the whole party is partially immune from BF, possibly fully immune with a Master Dancer and a Master Musician playing. Also, perhaps increasing the detriment of BF.
As you can tell, the asthetic changes aren't really a priority for me, although I would like to see them, they should only take one slot on the list.
My point, lets make Dancing a viable profession, i.e., a profession that gives the Dancer some extraordinary abilities, it does cost more to master dancer then it does to master pistoleer, so it should be at least as good, and not exclusively a support class.
Ok, now this probably makes less sense than many other posts, but I feel that my ideas are understandable in this mess of a post.
Thanks for Reading my mess...
Castaspella
my top 5 would be a bit different:
1.
2.
4.
5.
3.
reason being is that mind buffing actually lets us make money while doing what we like, and for the entertainer missions to be fun and worthwhile would take such an overhaul, i'd rather our guys spent time on stuff with a better chance for big improvement in a short period of time.
and raven, i LOVE LOVE LOVE your idea about granting faction points for dancing in faction locations/for your faction members. my only caveat is, how do we prevent afkers from exploiting this? 
good job, i really like everything you put down here, the only thing that isn't on the list that i'd like to see is entertainer NPC backup dancer/musician pets 
For the most part Ravenmist, I like the top five issues you have selected. They could be in the same order I have changed the emphasis jsut slightly.
1 - Falling down is definately number one. Master Dancers should be rewarded with never missing a step! I believe from Master Dancer down it would seem appropriate to scale falling so that the higher your dance experience the less you would fall and at Master you would never fall.
2 - A dancer should certaintly be able to Mind Buff themselves. Again, this should beone of thebenefits to being a dancer. Other skills have their distinct benifits such as being able to shoot a weapon or make your own cloths or heal youself!
3 - I would place the redesign of some of the dances next because after all dancing is the profession and should look the part. Nobody wants to see unprofessional moves or bad transitions. Moves should flow from one to the next. The basic dance movement without flourishes is sometimes very erratic.Perhaps as a dancer gets more skill their moves would become more polished until they reached a state of perfection for the Master. All of the flourishes from 1-8 should be appealing otherwise no one ever uses them and they are a waste.
4 - Mind buffing does need something to make it more clear as to whether it is being applied properly or at all. I think this one and number 2 really should be together.
5 - Entertainment Missions, I have never done one because from the little I have seen they appeared to be too long for the credits. It would seem to make sense that the game should allow entertainers to make a reasonable living doing missions and wouldn't this increase the content of the game. As it is now I don't know of any entertainers who take advantage of these missions at all.
Just a little on AFKing. I dont believe this is a big issue if an issue at all. It doesnt bother me and in fact in some cases it is a benefit when you look at the xp gain in larger groups. They really don't take away from the credit issue because most people won't tip them anyway, except on rare cases when they are the only dancer on Endor or Dath, etc. and they are grateful for any entertainers AFK or not. People who talk to others are the real entertainers and the ones who gain the real benefits in credits and friends. Have fun and quit worrying about what other people are doing so much.
I have one Master Dancerand another who is close to becoming a Master Dancer. And again the fun is in interacting with others, living the role, in becoming a unique part of the game!
Thanks for an all inclusive list Raven! My top five would probably look a bit different but hey, we've all got our opinions. *grin* You covered everything that I can think of in the rest of the report.
I don't have the faith in player run cantinas that you do but I personally am probably MORE tired of the AFK argument and discussion than AFK dancing itself.
These are my top 5 in order of importance to me.
1. Fix the jitter in formal,formal2,lyrical,lyical2,popular,rythmic2
2. Finish the motion cap on our new flourishes
3. I would love to see a “mirror” ability that allows a dancer to chose the mirror opposite of a flourish. (mirror should be a toggle)
Example: Moonwalk makes me walk 3 steps left/slide 6 steps right/walk right 3 steps, it’s “mirror” would simply make me do the opposite walk 3 steps right/slide 6 left/walk left 3 steps.
4. Fix the body part bleed through on our clothes! Legs and arms poking out of a expensive gown is just tacky.
5. Use cantina’s as a place for CSR’s to hide and react to rude behavior (this is the place everyone comes together seems to me it’s the best place for a CSR to be if he isn’t out doing something else)
NOTE: I don't have any problems with the other items asked for Ravenmist with the exception of "bardlike" field abilities. On this topic I say please sony don't even concider this!
Luciee_Depri wrote:I don't have the faith in player run cantinas that you do but I personally am probably MORE tired of the AFK argument and discussion than AFK dancing itself.
LOL! Good point.
I agree, I do not have the faith in player cantinas to solve this problem, BUT, they are a new thing and I am willing to "let it ride" for a while and see how things turn out. Maybe they will fix the situation in a way that everyone is happy and that will be that. I don't expect that but we can hope, right?
C