Dancer Archive
Thread: Redemption and Forgiveness in the Post Buffbot era?
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Dreamland
Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:54 am
#14
Well it all depends on the person in question. Theres some bufbots out there, one in particular that i know of that from my point of view seems to be just a person that thinks they are doing good by helping others and providing free buffs. Another thatI have tired to speak to responded with a demonstration of some of the more colorful expletives in the english language, along with a promise to do everything in her power to keep buffboting just cause it bothers people.
The thing is I don't think the people like the second oneI mentioned will be seeking any kind of redemption. These ones never did it to be an entertainer in the first place, they did it to either treat it as a buisness and make money, or just because someone told them they didnt like it. I think if it realy does become impossible the ones such as this will just cancel that alt acount, or possibly try using a 3rd party program.
DarkY0da
Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:56 pm
#15
Ahh they are all on ignore. I don't take people off that list unless someone else gives me a really good reason why I should.
Electro
Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:30 pm
#16
As far as I am concerned ... well, I hate buffbots but I don't really hate the players who create them in general. When the game doesn't allow them to exist... if they really WANT to be ATK entertainers (something I doubt with every fibre of my being in most cases) then more power to them and welcome to the light side again 
Isabow
Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:38 pm
#17
********* They both said that once they can no longer run a buffbot they will delete the char and create a New Entertianer becasue they know that the other entertainers wont ever accept or forgive them for having Been buffbots.******************
Still a moot point for redemption and/or forgivness.
If they make a different character, how will we ever know they were a buffbot in their previous life?
Toshee
DanceRulez
Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:47 pm
#18
I'm not sure how much of a problem this will be. Since most of them haven't been playing entertainer up to now, I doubt many of them will actually play it after they are no longer able to macro it. Those who do decide to play may finally discover an appreciation for the profession, and these I won't have a problem with (assuming that they are not on my ignore list when they ask me for an invite to the group).
What I'm actually more concerned about are "monitored bots". These would be bots that are left on for long periods of time where someone is around to restart their macros as often as they can and leave them running for as long as they can, or those who may stand there dormant, and then be activated by request - say by tells or something. I had a former guildmate boast to me one time about how she was able to leave her bot on and monitor it for about 10hrs per day. She could leave it going unattended or man it at any time she wanted to. (She went on to tell me how I was "hardly around" though I am on every day often for too many hours,
and that competition was a good thing for our guildmembers. Fortunately she is no longer a part of our guild.) It is these kinds of bots that may still be around even after the macro fix depending on how hard they end up being to maintain. I doubt they will have the 23/7 presence that bots do now, but they may still be a thorn in our side even after the macro fix goes in.
What I'm actually more concerned about are "monitored bots". These would be bots that are left on for long periods of time where someone is around to restart their macros as often as they can and leave them running for as long as they can, or those who may stand there dormant, and then be activated by request - say by tells or something. I had a former guildmate boast to me one time about how she was able to leave her bot on and monitor it for about 10hrs per day. She could leave it going unattended or man it at any time she wanted to. (She went on to tell me how I was "hardly around" though I am on every day often for too many hours,
and that competition was a good thing for our guildmembers. Fortunately she is no longer a part of our guild.) It is these kinds of bots that may still be around even after the macro fix depending on how hard they end up being to maintain. I doubt they will have the 23/7 presence that bots do now, but they may still be a thorn in our side even after the macro fix goes in.
Saera
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:13 pm
#19
PoetDancer wrote:
Here's the way I see it, Euclase:
Reformed buffbot--has been asleep for a month. Does not have a personality or a stage show. Does not know how to attract an audience. Knows nobody, has no perceptual skills, and no interpersonal skills.
ATK master--has been actively working to be more amusing. Has a well developed personality and stage presence. Knows sure fire ways to get attention. Knows everybody, has a keen eye, and a ton of experience in interpersonal relations.
There is a learning curve to this thing. The experience table takes time because it takes time to learn this business. And the business is all about putting on a show and making the cantina audience find something enjoyable in there. So on an equal playing field, who should feel sorry for whom?
Okhere is one point of view. Yes they have been "asleep" they have no "routine or gimmick" that an ATK entertainer may have. But even if they stick with the profession and are no longer a "buff bot".. the hundreds upon hundreds of people who came to know this entertainer as a buffbot, the ones who used them regularly will still flock to this person if they are a live buff bot. They won't have to "learn the gimmick, or the routine" because the routine/habits of other playerswill already give them that audience. I would rather they deleted and restarted. And I guess the smart ones already know that the majority of the entertaining profession hate them with a passion, they chose to be buffbots, they have the reputations to go with it, that in my opinion they so rightly deserve.
I guess I take a firmer stand on Buffbots, I ignore them, so I don't have to listen to their spam when I'm in the cantinas..but then I tend to ignore every annoying AFK person that has a talking macro. That has to be the stupidest most annoying thing ever, talking afk macros.. you people that use these realize that the others who are dancing there have to listen to you over and over for hours right? Err..sorry got sidetracked. If I can't hear a person ask to join the group (and I'm the leader) they don't get invited. If someone says "Buffbot2 wants an invite" I say "that is nice, they are ignored I will not invite them." This has happened before, a known buffbot who I had ignored wanted to join the group to work on music. I'm sorry, but I will not invite a profession killing buffbot to join a group so they can get an xp bonusjust to learn another skill to use as a buff bot. If a buffbot miraculously reforms themselves and decided to become a live entertainer, I wish them well, but I will not support them because I can't hear what they have to stay, and I don't want to.
I'm very passionate about the dancing profession, I used to be a master dancer...and like hundreds before me who loved the entertainer profession we were chased out by hologrinders, afk spammers and buffbots.We tried to fight them, we refused to invite them to our groups, but when the cantina has 20 afk people spammingHEAL ME! WATCH ME!over and overit totally ruins the enviroment of the cantina and makes it impossible to entertain people.I may have all the spammers ignored, but that doesn't mean the people who come in do, and it's impossible to fight over the spam to gain peoples attention. Even now all the AFK people are still ruining the whole thing. The fun of being a dancer was and IS interacting with the others in the cantina. Now you are lucky if you can even get your own group to talk to you because 99% of them are afk. But I loved being adancer and have always regretted dropping it. That is why I am currently taking up the profession again and enduring all the afk spam and buffbot spam. But the only reason I am doing this nowis because I know those who don't truly love the profession will disappear when macro's go away. And all I can say is good riddance.
I can't forgive what they did, and I don't want to.
Saera Aistee
Ahazi
Drygo
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:46 pm
#20
To make another reply...since my first one seemed a little vindicative and harsh (I still feel that way, but maybe I can explain it a little better.)
Yes, I'm bitter about the whole thing, and I am not quick to forgive people who have worked tirelessly to destroy my gameplaying experience, while at the same time passionately defending their right to ruin my experience, all the time belittling, degrading, and being downright rude to me, while also throwing it in my face and laughing the entire time, not to mention gloating over the fact that they see me as inferior, stupid, a waste of time, and less valuable because I can't be as good as they are because of simple game mechanics that they have exploited for personal gain at the expense of those who actually want to play the profession.
*whew* Long sentence there.
My point? Yes, part of me is vindictive about the whole thing and wants to see them suffer beyond belief. There's also a huge part of me that thinks that if all the buffbots were destroyed tomorrow due to developer intervention, we should not just give a collective sigh of relief and say, "welcome to the fold." The reason for that is because by just sitting back and accepting these menaces, we are saying, "it's ok that you did this." No. This type of gameplay which obviously came near close to ruining us should not be forgotten. A clear message must be sent that this behavior is completely and utterly unacceptable and that is must *never* happen again. People don't learn their lessons by giving them hugs. They will look at that as free reign to do something like this again if given the opportunity. They must be made to know that what they did was unacceptable, and they must learn to deal with the consequences, they must reap what they sow. Positive behavior begets positve rewards. Negative behavior begets negative consequences. People have to learn from their mistakes. And, I have absolutely no qualms with showing a little "tough love" if I have to. I am not going to sit back and just let people who have systematically degraded and abused me get off with a little slap on the wrist. I'm not going to just sit back and take abuse and allow them to think it was okay to do so. They have to personally understand the type of misery that they put us through in order to realize that it was wrong.
Bitter...party of one...your table is ready...
Saera
Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:09 pm
#21
Drygo wrote:
To make another reply...since my first one seemed a little vindicative and harsh (I still feel that way, but maybe I can explain it a little better.)
Yes, I'm bitter about the whole thing, and I am not quick to forgive people who have worked tirelessly to destroy my gameplaying experience, while at the same time passionately defending their right to ruin my experience, all the time belittling, degrading, and being downright rude to me, while also throwing it in my face and laughing the entire time, not to mention gloating over the fact that they see me as inferior, stupid, a waste of time, and less valuable because I can't be as good as they are because of simple game mechanics that they have exploited for personal gain at the expense of those who actually want to play the profession.
*whew* Long sentence there.
My point? Yes, part of me is vindictive about the whole thing and wants to see them suffer beyond belief. There's also a huge part of me that thinks that if all the buffbots were destroyed tomorrow due to developer intervention, we should not just give a collective sigh of relief and say, "welcome to the fold." The reason for that is because by just sitting back and accepting these menaces, we are saying, "it's ok that you did this." No. This type of gameplay which obviously came near close to ruining us should not be forgotten. A clear message must be sent that this behavior is completely and utterly unacceptable and that is must *never* happen again. People don't learn their lessons by giving them hugs. They will look at that as free reign to do something like this again if given the opportunity. They must be made to know that what they did was unacceptable, and they must learn to deal with the consequences, they must reap what they sow. Positive behavior begets positve rewards. Negative behavior begets negative consequences. People have to learn from their mistakes. And, I have absolutely no qualms with showing a little "tough love" if I have to. I am not going to sit back and just let people who have systematically degraded and abused me get off with a little slap on the wrist. I'm not going to just sit back and take abuse and allow them to think it was okay to do so. They have to personally understand the type of misery that they put us through in order to realize that it was wrong.
Bitter...party of one...your table is ready...
Best make that a party of two, because I wholeheartedly agree with you 100%.
Saera Aistee
Ahazi
IrinaStarsinger
Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:26 am
#22
I'm not recommending one approach or another and I have no agenda regarding the issue . I'm not defending buffbots and saying they should be forgiven, nor am I of the mindset to seek vengence. I was simply curious about he community feelings on the matter since I had that discussion with two of them and a friend and I had discussed the issue.
The question was purely one of curiosity and the title was prompted by a friend wondering if the Buffbuts would seek Redemption and Foregiveness.
DarkY0da
Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:41 am
#23
I don't think MOST of them will look for redemption or forgiveness. In fact I would honestly be surprised if ANY of them really honestly did that. I can see more of them switch over to 3rd party macros then would look to try and play atk. I could see some of them end up being run as an semi-atk buff bot.(aka play their alt get a tell and switch over to buff. or just every so many minutes switch over and start the macro running again.) And I doubt that most of the alt bots accounts will get canceled with the macro change. Because people do it for the lots and storage as well. Some people will keep the atl as a buff bot and just log on and buff themselves and friends with it. Some will switch them over to something else that is useful to them.
Einhinder
Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:13 am
#24
i would like to think i could forgive some of the buffbottas the privae guild ones and such
however i cannot for give those who flaunted it and advertised on the forums or starports and such
*cough*lanfear*cough*
however i make no proises as i have a temper and cannot always control what i say no matter how hard i try.
as jo march said in little woman i am hopelessly flawed.
Doriana
Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:50 pm
#25
I hate the situation but the people who truly started this in the latter days a guild service when they couldn't find an active entertainer to join them, I understand why and I can forgive that. I'm going to try to hold true to this, because while I truly AM bitter about the whole situation.. being bitter gets us nothing but more pain in long run. I understand that in the current climate it IS hard to find live entertainers.
The people who are flocking to it now because they can get free credits and the ones who've done it for months for the same reason (Oh, but they're HELPING so much!!!), the people who are going out of their way to AFK to master now because they might not be able to later and don't want to invest in the profession for real, the people who are actively threatening me in game and out about how they will do everything possible to not only continue to run their bot (including 3rd party software) but will specifically go out of their way to grief me with it, the people who pass up my offer of a live buff and leave my group and ask if any bots are buffing, the people who say that we need bots because entertaining is a worthless profession, the people who set up bots in public cantinas and cantinas that already have several, the people who flaunt their "exp stealing" skills, the people who put bots in public hotels so no one even goes to the cantinas anymore, the people who threaten and grief live entertainers if their bot sees a decrease in revenue....in other words, 95%+ of them...
I will forgive them when people stop walking up to me and saying "group" in the same way I command my pets and expecting the result to be a free mind buff.
I will forgive them when my friends come back.
I will forgive them when cantinas are spam-free.
I will forgive them when I can once again be proud of my Master Dancer title because it means I spent countless hours of my genuine time and effort healing and helping people.
I will forgive them when cantinas are social hubs that facilitate interaction.
I will forgive them when a true newbie can buy the game to play an entertainer and actually get healing exp to level.
I will forgive them when I can make an impact on the GCW with my entertaining skills.
I will forgive them when I don't have to leave my cantina empty while I go do missions to be able to make enough money to cover the maintenance on it.
I will forgive them when I'm a potential friend and a not a tool to be used and otherwise ignored.
I will forgive them when removing the profession that I love from the game doesn't look like a better option than letting it continue as it is.
I will forgive them when the answer to "How do I gain access to this set of skills I don't want to play but still need?" is "Make a FRIEND" instead of "Make an ALT."
In short, I guess, I'll forgive them when there are glaciers on Tatooine's equator.
Here's to hoping we can at least forget.
The people who are flocking to it now because they can get free credits and the ones who've done it for months for the same reason (Oh, but they're HELPING so much!!!), the people who are going out of their way to AFK to master now because they might not be able to later and don't want to invest in the profession for real, the people who are actively threatening me in game and out about how they will do everything possible to not only continue to run their bot (including 3rd party software) but will specifically go out of their way to grief me with it, the people who pass up my offer of a live buff and leave my group and ask if any bots are buffing, the people who say that we need bots because entertaining is a worthless profession, the people who set up bots in public cantinas and cantinas that already have several, the people who flaunt their "exp stealing" skills, the people who put bots in public hotels so no one even goes to the cantinas anymore, the people who threaten and grief live entertainers if their bot sees a decrease in revenue....in other words, 95%+ of them...
I will forgive them when people stop walking up to me and saying "group" in the same way I command my pets and expecting the result to be a free mind buff.
I will forgive them when my friends come back.
I will forgive them when cantinas are spam-free.
I will forgive them when I can once again be proud of my Master Dancer title because it means I spent countless hours of my genuine time and effort healing and helping people.
I will forgive them when cantinas are social hubs that facilitate interaction.
I will forgive them when a true newbie can buy the game to play an entertainer and actually get healing exp to level.
I will forgive them when I can make an impact on the GCW with my entertaining skills.
I will forgive them when I don't have to leave my cantina empty while I go do missions to be able to make enough money to cover the maintenance on it.
I will forgive them when I'm a potential friend and a not a tool to be used and otherwise ignored.
I will forgive them when removing the profession that I love from the game doesn't look like a better option than letting it continue as it is.
I will forgive them when the answer to "How do I gain access to this set of skills I don't want to play but still need?" is "Make a FRIEND" instead of "Make an ALT."
In short, I guess, I'll forgive them when there are glaciers on Tatooine's equator.
Here's to hoping we can at least forget.
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