Dancer Archive
Thread: Redemption and Forgiveness in the Post Buffbot era?
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IrinaStarsinger
Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:45 am
#1
I've talked to 2 buffbots who told me that they run buffbots for one reason. That being that can only play occasionalyl and cant make a living as an ATK Entertainer. So they run their bot when theyre not actively playing in order to have an income for when they DO play.
They both said that once they can no longer run a buffbot they will delete the char and create a New Entertianer becasue they know that the other entertainers wont ever accept or forgive them for having Been buffbots.
What IS your attitude towards players who run buffbots? When the bot cycle ends and there are no more bots and some of them decide to actually Play entertainers will they be accepted? Allowed to join groups? Entertainer guilds? Or will the be ostracized by the community at large?
What if a current buffbot Gives up botting and wants to actully BE an entertainer? What then?
And what of a player that functions as an entertainer by simply running their buff macros by hand. Still spamming, Still using macroed speech, still doing joins and disbands and simply sits there and HITS the keys for each of those functions rather than running a looping macro? is THAT a buffbot? And do we treat them the same as the AFk buffbots??
kirah_ashlin
Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:52 am
#2
I beleive it should be consideredplayer by player, Eucy. There are some buffbots out there who flaunt themselves in the face of live entertainers. They may find forgiveness hard to come by. Others may find acceptance easier.
picklesSW
Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:52 am
#3
In order for me to forgive a known buffbot, they must first travel to every cantina in the galaxy and apologize personally to every live entertainer in there for 8 months of **edit**, theft and abuse.
They must then place their head between their legs and kiss their own arse.
Name that film!
Sorry, I'm in a humorous mood today. Feel free to ignore me.
They must then place their head between their legs and kiss their own arse.
Name that film!
Sorry, I'm in a humorous mood today. Feel free to ignore me.
Panthu
Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:52 am
#4
I don't dislike the nice players who are running Buff Bots now. I just don't happen to agree with them. Of course I won't hold it against them personally if they switch to Live Entertaining. We've already seen this happen... and vice versa. *shrug*
I don't worry so much about how others play their game... I only worry about how mine is affected. Even then, it's not personal though.
For someone who doesn't think we should be talking about buff bots anymore, you sure are starting a lot of threads on the subject. 
Tralmek
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:01 am
#5
Most buffbots (and their customers)on my servers will have to re-create if they're looking to even ask me for for forgiveness. I can't hear what I have ignored....
Vorpaks
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:02 am
#6
I think this is a moot point. If they only stopped being a bot becuase they were forced to, and not because they recognized they were hurting others and were sorry for it, then they are probably not the kind of person I would want in my group or guild.
If they stopped being a buff bot because they knew it hurt people and wanted to find another way of making an income that enhanced everyone's gameplay as a whole then I would welcome them with open arms. Any entertainer who joins a guild I am in would not have problems with income. That is what the guild is for. We are friends that support each other in every way. However, you have to be the kind of person we enjoy being friends with - helpful, thoughtful, generous, and happy/positive. We've had exploiters and griefers in the guild in the past and do not want that kind again.
Someone who was willing to hurt others to make easy cash in the past and feels no qualms about it would likely do so again in the future, possibly at the expense of a guild or groupmate. This kind of person is a liability.
So it really depends on what kind of person they are, not whether or not they have been a bot in the past.
The money issue is a tough one. If they can't make enough money buffing while ATK, why is that? Is it the same reason many others on the forums have trouble getting customers to come to them instead of the bots? If the person is botting under the belief that if you can't beat them join them then they are not really doing anything constructive to solve their problems. They are just passing off the problem on someone else.
I play Iosan on Bria maybe four times a month. I have not had any problem with money because I have friends and groupmembers who have helped me out and supported me. In turn I have tried to pass that on whenever I could. Even with extremely limited playtimes I do not think I will ever feel the need to buff bot. Hopefully when the buff bot problems are solved the money issues these type of players encounter will be solved as well.
If they stopped being a buff bot because they knew it hurt people and wanted to find another way of making an income that enhanced everyone's gameplay as a whole then I would welcome them with open arms. Any entertainer who joins a guild I am in would not have problems with income. That is what the guild is for. We are friends that support each other in every way. However, you have to be the kind of person we enjoy being friends with - helpful, thoughtful, generous, and happy/positive. We've had exploiters and griefers in the guild in the past and do not want that kind again.
Someone who was willing to hurt others to make easy cash in the past and feels no qualms about it would likely do so again in the future, possibly at the expense of a guild or groupmate. This kind of person is a liability.
So it really depends on what kind of person they are, not whether or not they have been a bot in the past.
The money issue is a tough one. If they can't make enough money buffing while ATK, why is that? Is it the same reason many others on the forums have trouble getting customers to come to them instead of the bots? If the person is botting under the belief that if you can't beat them join them then they are not really doing anything constructive to solve their problems. They are just passing off the problem on someone else.
I play Iosan on Bria maybe four times a month. I have not had any problem with money because I have friends and groupmembers who have helped me out and supported me. In turn I have tried to pass that on whenever I could. Even with extremely limited playtimes I do not think I will ever feel the need to buff bot. Hopefully when the buff bot problems are solved the money issues these type of players encounter will be solved as well.
Esharra
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:04 am
#7
Redemption and forgiveness? Anyone who would knowingly choose to exploit a game dynamic to enhance thier character's skills or pocketbook while being completely aware of the detrimental effect on others and the game will Never have my TRUST.
Reachwind
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:13 am
#8
At my current pace playing casually like I do I will have enough money for a speeder, house and travel money in a week. Credits may trickle in but they do come in. Sure sometimes I have to pick up a blaster to occaisionally pay for a travel ticket right now but there is no way I could honestly say that limited game time is a valid excuse for cheating.
If these people were honest with themselves and the people they want to be friends with they would never make this BSexcuse. If you want to have a good reputation in this game you need to be a good part of the community period end of story. If it's all about you and what you want and you don't care about rules, fair play and what other people are going to think... I hope you enjoy playing your new character. I can guarantee that after a while that character will have just as foul a reputation as your last character because the problem is you.
Drygo
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:23 am
#9
I guess it depends on if someone wants to be forgiven, and what the extent of their crimes have been. Some people I can see myself accepting. Others, absolutely not. The bots that take over the Coronet and Theed Cantinas are the worst of the bunch, and they will never receive forgiveness and acceptance from me unless I know for a fact that they've stopped botting because they realize what they are doing is wrong, before the recursive macro fix is here. And, it's not just the bots either, it's every single combat player who has vigorously attacked and insulted mewhen I've been nothing but kind. No, these are people who I have no interest in playing the game with. And, yes, I'm keeping a list. What goes around comes around. And, I've never been one to "turn the other cheek." Make me miserable? Well, you sure as hell better expect some misery in return.
As for ATK buffers like you described, yes their spam may annoy me. I will kindly ask them if they might want to stop doing it. But, they are there, and they are playing the game, and they are an entertainer for reasons other than mine,but they are entertainers nonetheless. They probably wouldn't be my best friends, but at the keyboard play that doesn't use exploits in order to ruin the gameplay of others and create a monopoly are valid forms of gameplay.
Message Edited by Drygo on 08-24-2004 08:24 AM
Maryja
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:30 am
#10
I don't take names and hold grudges... I'd just be happy when AFK "play" is gone. I logged in at Dant mining outpost last night and didn't even have room to perform because there was so many AFKers in there taking up space. It was discouraging and the last time I'll travel to Dant to perform before recursive marcos are removed.
Ikewe
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:39 am
#11
That's a tough question to be honest. Robots have harmed our profession. When they cease to be robots simply because they were forced to rather than because they felt what they were doing was wrong, I have no idea how I will react to them. I am certain it will all depend upon how they interact with me.
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
Aleyo
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:53 am
#12
I might ask them to serve a penance like the one I'm doing 
.
But really, I think botters who want to actually play the profession after they're unable to bot will be rare (they'll likely just log on to buff the main and friends and then log off).
I'll likely treat them like any other player new to entertainment. I'll be wiling to give tips on atk play, how to be a nice guy, how to do nifty musician tricks, but I'll not advertise that the person is a good entertainer unless it's proven to me as such.
And Javier: Braveheart.
.But really, I think botters who want to actually play the profession after they're unable to bot will be rare (they'll likely just log on to buff the main and friends and then log off).
I'll likely treat them like any other player new to entertainment. I'll be wiling to give tips on atk play, how to be a nice guy, how to do nifty musician tricks, but I'll not advertise that the person is a good entertainer unless it's proven to me as such.
And Javier: Braveheart
.
Devika
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:57 am
#13
IrinaStarsinger wrote:
I've talked to 2 buffbots who told me that they run buffbots for one reason. That being that can only play occasionalyl and cant make a living as an ATK Entertainer. So they run their bot when theyre not actively playing in order to have an income for when they DO play.
They both said that once they can no longer run a buffbot they will delete the char and create a New Entertianer becasue they know that the other entertainers wont ever accept or forgive them for having Been buffbots.
What IS your attitude towards players who run buffbots? When the bot cycle ends and there are no more bots and some of them decide to actually Play entertainers will they be accepted? Allowed to join groups? Entertainer guilds? Or will the be ostracized by the community at large?
What if a current buffbot Gives up botting and wants to actully BE an entertainer? What then?
And what of a player that functions as an entertainer by simply running their buff macros by hand. Still spamming, Still using macroed speech, still doing joins and disbands and simply sits there and HITS the keys for each of those functions rather than running a looping macro? is THAT a buffbot? And do we treat them the same as the AFk buffbots??
The only problem I have with buffbots who use that reason as to why they do it is:
What about other professions who try to use the same reason for earning money afk?
--A doctor that sets a 9k fee on their house just so he/she can buff afk and still make money gets banned.
--Smugglers who slice afk because they couldn't afford to play as much but still needed the loot so that they could sell and keep up financially, were banned.
Yes, these were because they used 3rd party macros but the principle was the same. They didn't have time to play and wanted to make a quick buck, just like the buffbots referred to above.
I'm sorry but if it's simply to make money, I have no sympathy. As I've stated before, just buffing for 3 hours in one night I was able to make 150K with my character on Corbantis. I just can't accept that as aviable reason.
I don't know how I would react to the buffbots/turned ATK entertainers. I would obviously still treat them with respect and realize there is a person behind the toon but what about our feelings as the "Always live and present entertainers"?
1) we had to listen to endless spamming for people to invite to their group for a buff
2) people just trying to get through the profession lost a great deal of healing experience
3) what about the fact that we got to sit by and watch as someone completely cheapened our profession(s) and trained people to think that we are not a "real" professional since obviously it ALL can be done without being ATK
4) the so called "free services" the buff bots offer are taking money from the mouths of the entertainers who do survive on charging for their buffs.
I guess the list could go on here so I'll stop.
My recommendation (if they truely are concerned with the entertainer communties reaction) is to reroll your character because I do not forsee warm welcomes.
If they choose to continue manually clicking the buttons for buffing, without any customer interaction,more power to them. That's not fun in my eyes and it's already proven that you can make money much easier/quicker by mastering a combat profession and grinding missions on dantooine, so good luck to them there.
**BTW, this is in NO WAY an attack on Euclase, just flipping the perspective here so the buffbots can try to understand why they won't be accepted with open arms everywhere**
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