Dancer Archive
Thread: Is AFK playing actually against the rules
kirah_ashlin
Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:28 pm
#14
But, you also LIKE it, Javy! Shame! LOL!
picklesSW wrote:
"So, there's no need for me to bother you on these boards any more."
Wow, first TH's announcment and now this! It's truly been a fantastic week.
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist that. Someone smack me. Please. I deserve it.
Tiaga
Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:36 pm
#15
Right now they do not like the unattended gameplay, but permit people to use the tools they provided in that manner. They are taking the tools away.
Using 3rd party programs for anything, unattended or not, currently is and still will be against the rules.
Using 3rd party programs for anything, unattended or not, currently is and still will be against the rules.
Naish
Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:40 pm
#16
I've been through all of those things you described. I've been around since launch. I've been through the exploits and the nerfs. The game changes and I've changed along with the game. It's all part of the adventure.
I've always had a money making toon and a combat toon. My money making toons job is to make the most money possible as fast as possible. Right now, this is the best way to do it. At some point, being a dancer won't be profitable any more. When it's not, I'll go on to the next profitable thing.
Evil... probably
Fun... absolutely
I've always had a money making toon and a combat toon. My money making toons job is to make the most money possible as fast as possible. Right now, this is the best way to do it. At some point, being a dancer won't be profitable any more. When it's not, I'll go on to the next profitable thing.
Evil... probably
Fun... absolutely
Tiaga
Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:42 pm
#17
And where does it say that? On the document you click "I Accept" to every time you play.
From paragraph 7 of the EULA:
[...] You may not use any third party software to modify the Software or to change game play. [...]
And again later in the same paragraph:
[...] you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play. [...]
By a strict interpretation, that reads to be even in-game macros would not be permitted, however that has not been ruled to be the interpretation their policy goes by.
Once the ability for in-game macros to assist in extended unattended gameplay is removed, that will mean that the only way to play unattended will be through 3rd party programs, which are and always have been a bannable offense. At that point, yes AFK play will be against the rules.
From paragraph 7 of the EULA:
[...] You may not use any third party software to modify the Software or to change game play. [...]
And again later in the same paragraph:
[...] you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play. [...]
By a strict interpretation, that reads to be even in-game macros would not be permitted, however that has not been ruled to be the interpretation their policy goes by.
Once the ability for in-game macros to assist in extended unattended gameplay is removed, that will mean that the only way to play unattended will be through 3rd party programs, which are and always have been a bannable offense. At that point, yes AFK play will be against the rules.
Vorpaks
Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:49 pm
#18
Random Radiant story: 
When I used have entertainer skills on my main, waaaaaay back a whole like 11 months ago lol, there used to be a band going almost all the time in the Dearic cantina. If anyone from Radiant remembers Gisi? The most lovely twillek, even I had a crush on her lol. I would go to the cantina just to hang out and talk with her. And when Nossko was an entertainer and Renardo and Ceana and they all bought clothes by Ropari?
I remember I got my best friend, who is VERY anti-video game, to actually play an entertainer for a night. She used my husband's character, who by that time had been transformed from a Mon Cal named Raruka to a human female named Sowi. We started playing in the cantina and didn't stop rocking that cantina until 6 am the next morning. We slept for like three hours and went back at it. That must have been a 62 hour party.
One memorable quote from an aspiring TK - "Wow! I came in here to heal my BF and I've been here for 5 hours!!" After that weekend my friend told me she never wanted to play SWG again. She told me it took THREE WEEKS for her to stop thinking about it every day. She had even been considering begging her family for money so she could upgrade her internet and video card so she could play. SERIOUSLY addicted to the game and she had only left the cantina three times to run to the bank. She hadn't even seen the rest of the universe.
I thought I would share what cantinas in Radiant used to be like. How amazing it would be if they were like this again. This has nothing to do with buff bots. Everything to do with fun and enjoying the great things you can do when you put this game and your imagination together.
When I used have entertainer skills on my main, waaaaaay back a whole like 11 months ago lol, there used to be a band going almost all the time in the Dearic cantina. If anyone from Radiant remembers Gisi? The most lovely twillek, even I had a crush on her lol. I would go to the cantina just to hang out and talk with her. And when Nossko was an entertainer and Renardo and Ceana and they all bought clothes by Ropari?
I remember I got my best friend, who is VERY anti-video game, to actually play an entertainer for a night. She used my husband's character, who by that time had been transformed from a Mon Cal named Raruka to a human female named Sowi. We started playing in the cantina and didn't stop rocking that cantina until 6 am the next morning. We slept for like three hours and went back at it. That must have been a 62 hour party.
One memorable quote from an aspiring TK - "Wow! I came in here to heal my BF and I've been here for 5 hours!!" After that weekend my friend told me she never wanted to play SWG again. She told me it took THREE WEEKS for her to stop thinking about it every day. She had even been considering begging her family for money so she could upgrade her internet and video card so she could play. SERIOUSLY addicted to the game and she had only left the cantina three times to run to the bank. She hadn't even seen the rest of the universe.
I thought I would share what cantinas in Radiant used to be like. How amazing it would be if they were like this again.
This has nothing to do with buff bots. Everything to do with fun and enjoying the great things you can do when you put this game and your imagination together.
Vorpaks
Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:52 pm
#19
Naish wrote:
I've been through all of those things you described. I've been around since launch. I've been through the exploits and the nerfs. The game changes and I've changed along with the game. It's all part of the adventure.
I've always had a money making toon and a combat toon. My money making toons job is to make the most money possible as fast as possible. Right now, this is the best way to do it. At some point, being a dancer won't be profitable any more. When it's not, I'll go on to the next profitable thing.
Evil... probably
Fun... absolutely
Well it looks like that time is coming. The next big thing will be ship building I am predicting. Everyone will want one. Do you have your resources stocked? Your FP maxxed? We do... and now we wait. I am excited.
Vorpaks
Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:01 pm
#20
Another Radiant story lol. Can you tell I dont want to be at work? When I was dancing (a female wookiee dancing was a VERY unusual sight back then and attracted a crowd. Not always a friendly one.) Gisi announced "I have to go afk a sec!" She ran over to a seat and sat down. When she came back I asked her why she didn't just keep dancing and she told me "That would be rude." That simple.
I think she was making a point to us noob dancers. Back then constant afk dancing was possible until the server reset, like I mentioned above. The only thing keeping you from doing it was your own honor. Well, and maybe ignorance, which was quickly enlightened.
I just wanted to say that I am very glad that I have found the community of dancers on Bria for which that is still true. And through them the wider intergalactic community of true players. You guys rock! And you have my respect. I hope you don't let any of the nasty comments discourage you.
/wookieehug for all entertainers on all servers. Thanks for making this game enjoyable. And for caring.
I think she was making a point to us noob dancers.
Back then constant afk dancing was possible until the server reset, like I mentioned above. The only thing keeping you from doing it was your own honor. Well, and maybe ignorance, which was quickly enlightened. I just wanted to say that I am very glad that I have found the community of dancers on Bria for which that is still true. And through them the wider intergalactic community of true players. You guys rock! And you have my respect. I hope you don't let any of the nasty comments discourage you.
/wookieehug for all entertainers on all servers.
Thanks for making this game enjoyable. And for caring.
FuschiaD
Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:17 pm
#21
Naish, I've watched you make thread after thread about this. We get it, I promise. We understand your view on this. But seriously, there's nothing we can do about it. Take it up with a red name, but please stop cluttering the dancer forums with this incessant whining.
SrinKnorei
Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:46 pm
#22
against the rules? i wouldn't say so, per say. but, what developers dont want people at their keyboard when they are playing a game they put work into. but, then, they're getting their 15 bucks a month anyway. maybe i just think rather negatively.
anyhow. i for one am glad this is happening. afk macroers dont add to my expereince in the game, and really, they just annoy me... if anything comes out of their mouth: "heal me please!" or "tip me please" or "invite me to your group for a free buff!" or "don't ask me, 'm just a--" ....hmm, this isnt a time for simpsons' quotes. 'll probably be hit for that one. if AFK macroers go bye-bye, i wont miss them. not for a second. The silent ones just stand around and are completely useless, so, although they may not annoy me, they'll cease to take up space-- especially if people just all out quit the game due to this. and good ridence i say. though, if this is going to affect the influx of cash into SOE's pockets, i would wonder why they would do such a thing... there's my negativity again 
the only thing that bugs me is that it will just make my speedbuffing for my guildmates and buddies more difficult. just a few more buttons to push, butthat doesnt bother me. what bothers me is that i have a bad memory and will probably forget... and that last thing i want to do is not do a good job because of my lack of memory, which is completely MY fault. i should just remember things. Thats why i liked the macro buff, because i could just chat while it was going and didnt have to worry about forgetting. but, this is really no skin off my back if they take out recursive macros. i can just do a '/tell srinknoreihey you, your macro has run out. push it again.'this will probably be skin off other people's back, but you know, not everyone can be happy about everything, not everyone can be made happy (or made anything.)
Thats why i liked the macro buff, because i could just chat while it was going and didnt have to worry about forgetting. but, this is really no skin off my back if they take out recursive macros. i can just do a '/tell srinknoreihey you, your macro has run out. push it again.'this will probably be skin off other people's back, but you know, not everyone can be happy about everything, not everyone can be made happy (or made anything.)some people have said people will just use 3rd party software. i think, though, however, that someone will notice if they havebeen going for a little too long and seem to be doing things actively, and are AFK (though sometimes some of us have AFK titles up for a minute or two, or accidently) it may or may not point out that someone is using 3rd party software, which was against the rules in this game, actually, last time i checked.
will we see a drop in entertainers, that's for sure, but good ridence to buffbots and other afk-macroers.
NewJedi
Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:18 pm
#23
As Tiaga says, the use of third-party software is already expressly forbidden by the EULA, and there is a colorable argument that in-game macros are "programs" that can't be used for "unattended gameplay." These provisions actually raise some pretty interesting and complexlegal issues. OK, you can fallasleep here now. (For those readers still awake, indulge me here: I teach Contracts in real life. At last an issue on which I have expertise!)
Even if SOE has from time to time failed to enforce the prohibitions relating to third-party software and unattended gameplay, its failure to do so may not constitute a waiver by it of its right to enforce the rule. Paragraph 14 of the EULA provides: "Our failure to act with respect to a breach by you or others does not waive our right to act with respect to subsequent or similar breaches." The same paragraph also includes the following integration and no-oral-modifcation clauses: "This Agreement sets forth the entire understanding and agreement between you and SOE with respect to the subject matter hereof. Except as provided herein, this Agreement may not be amended except in a writing signed by both parties." So even a CSR's statement to you purporting to amend the rules may not suffice to waive the applicable rule, if it's not "signed" by you and an agent of SOE. Electronic communication can constitute a "signature," but in this context the most likely means of "signed modification" is by a new EULA prepared by SOE and "signed" by you when you click "yes" at the license screen.
There is actually a counterargument that SOE's waiver of these provisions *is* binding, notwithstanding the pretty ironclad language of the waiver, integration, and no-oral-modification clauses. It is possible to "waive" the waiver clause! Likewise, it's possible to "modify" the no-oral-modifcation clause. Cf., e.g., U.C.C. 2-209(5) (a change that doesn't constitute a proper modification may nonetheless operate as a waiver). But most cases finding such a waiver also find reliance on the waiver, and a gamer's reliance wouldn't impress a court nearly as much as a major investment of funds or other change in behavior in a commercial context.
All that said, the obvious and safest way for SWG to tighten up its rules is to amend the EULA -- and to draw attention to such a change in a conspicuous fashion to avoid any argument that a "shrink-wrap" license is unconscionable or otherwise unenforceable against a supposedly uninformed user. One way to satisfy the requirement of conspicuousness is through CAPITAL LETTERS, as the EULA does in its warranty provisions.
Message Edited by NewJedi on 08-05-2004 07:23 PM
Aleyo
Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:41 pm
#24
SrinKnorei wrote:"don't ask me, 'm just a--" ....hmm, this isnt a time for simpsons' quotes. 'll probably be hit for that one.
/slap SrinKnorei
sexist!
Pappi
Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:48 pm
#25
Vorpaks wrote:
Random Radiant story:
When I used have entertainer skills on my main, waaaaaay back a whole like 11 months ago lol, there used to be a band going almost all the time in the Dearic cantina. If anyone from Radiant remembers Gisi? The most lovely twillek, even I had a crush on her lol. I would go to the cantina just to hang out and talk with her. And when Nossko was an entertainer and Renardo and Ceana and they all bought clothes by Ropari?
I remember I got my best friend, who is VERY anti-video game, to actually play an entertainer for a night. She used my husband's character, who by that time had been transformed from a Mon Cal named Raruka to a human female named Sowi. We started playing in the cantina and didn't stop rocking that cantina until 6 am the next morning. We slept for like three hours and went back at it. That must have been a 62 hour party.
One memorable quote from an aspiring TK - "Wow! I came in here to heal my BF and I've been here for 5 hours!!" After that weekend my friend told me she never wanted to play SWG again. She told me it took THREE WEEKS for her to stop thinking about it every day. She had even been considering begging her family for money so she could upgrade her internet and video card so she could play. SERIOUSLY addicted to the game and she had only left the cantina three times to run to the bank. She hadn't even seen the rest of the universe.
I thought I would share what cantinas in Radiant used to be like. How amazing it would be if they were like this again.
haha, if you guys can bribe ood_bnar, he has footage of me half buzzed talking about first week of launch in the coronet cantina in Ahazi
... that, and my dancing footage, but that's not important of course
FuschiaD
Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:33 am
#26
PhoenixStar wrote:
We should all try tolighten up some, I know we've all gotten a little fired up with the recent announcement...myself very much included, but we should stop and think for a second before we start flamming each other. We're all here playing the game because we have fun doing so, no need to flame each other in every single thread. I think we should all agree to disagree and just stop debating this topic back and forth. I'm sure we can all get along despite differing opinions about a change that may or may not occur.
Not to mention the fact that some of us from both sides of this /macro fence have been trolling in one form or another.
I've been reading about this Cantina Crawl(sorry I don't read the forums often...) and it sounds really interesting, plus the videos were great. So I guess I'm starting to see that there is some good in these forums after all.
I don't know about everyone else but I'm done with these macro topics after this post, there are plenty of better things we could be coming up with besides flames and 1 star ratings.
Now, THIS I agree with!
Phoenix, you should make a character on Bria and join us for the Cantina Crawls. They're an absolute blast, and usually contain enough drama to satisfy even me. *grin*