Dancer Archive
Thread: Buffing in CANTINA ONLY SUCKS
I read through the whole thread and didn't see the camp thing mentioned until your post. You beat me to the punch. You can buff in a camp, I've done it many times. I'm a dancer and I love dancing. But, I knew I couldn't just entertain and be confined to certain buildings in certain cities, so I picked up master TK so I could go out and explore the world with some hunting parties. And, because our buffs only last 2 hours, while some doctor buffs last closer to 4 (I had one the other day for 3 hrs 45min!), it's nice when, halfway through our hunting excursion, we can all sit around a camp and I can entertain and give the group another mind buff. So, this is definitely a handy little opportunity that wasn't mentioned before Fuschia mentioned it. I also think that healing battle fatigue should be extended to camps. Buffing and possible bf healing in camps has the added bonus of making people interdependent. People will actually want both entertainers and scouts in their hunting groups.
As for buffing in other places around the city, I wouldn't necessarily care either way. Don't get me wrong, I would personally like to buff elsewhere, but it's not a big deal if I can't. I also don't think the argument that people won't go into the cantina holds much water. First of all, entertainers will, as a rule, want to congregate in the cantina's because that's where the most experience is. Those who are grinding towards master are not going to stand outside of a starport when they can get triple the experience by grouping with other entertainers in a cantina, because that's where people know to go for that sort of thing, and I don't see that changing. Maybe you're concerned that the patrons won't go to the Cantina? I suppose that is a concern. But, I wonder, once the hologrind is over, and the entertainer population gets back to normal, how many people will choose not to entertain in a Cantina? Sure, I would go elsewhere from time to time for a change of pace. But, I can definitely see myself returning to the cantina's for social interaction a lot. And, I think most people still will, and patrons will still have to find us, and the most logical choice would be to go to the Cantinas. I think the Cantinas are such a part of the game at this point that people will still go there. I think due to the nature of our profession, people are likely to stay in the Cantinas even though they didn't stay in the med centers. I mean, doctor's don't get group experience in the same fashion as we do, do they? (I don't really know, having never been a doctor.)
My only concern I guess would be the afk buff botters. Those always suck anywhere because it takes away our opportunities. I really do think buffing should require being at the keyboard. If that were the case, I think being able to do stuff outside of the Cantinas wouldn't have too much of a negative impact, if any.
I am aware that you can setupa camp and buff people but that implies that I have to take up Novice scout and use skill points. That sucks, I would like to not do that if at all possible. Having a droid like the doctors makes that easier. Also, you cannot setup a tent in front of the starport in Coronet or anywhere else in the city for that matter.
Thanks Panthu for understanding me
That would be why you are the correspondent and I'm not lol. I understand saying "sucks" and making mad faces maybe isn't the way to get what you want, but it was how I felt at the time. I will try to refrain from acting like that in the future. 
I asked the people in my group last night about what their thoughts on this were and the responses I got where:
Doctors can buff outside the hospital?
Now that I think about it, that does suck that we can't buff outside the cantina.
I don't think it would take away from the cantina aspect.
They are coming out with droids for us and I'm not sure if they will give us the ability to buff outside the cantina or not.
I didn't get one person against giving us the ability to do it. I challenge you to ask the people in your entertainer groups. Ask them what they think about doctors having medical droids with the ability to buff anywhere, whereas the entertainers are forced to buff only in the cantina. You'll find that you'll get some interesting responses. I'm not saying all will agree with me, but I think you'll be surprised. I was shocked when someone told me that they thought doctors could only buff in hospitals. They are the kinds of people that don't even know a mind buff exists. Let me get out in the city and advertise then be able to buff them right then and there. Please don't make me get business then say, "well follow me back the cantina and we'll get this done". Doctor's dont have to do that, why do I?
I think Drygo made a good point:
"I also don't think the argument that people won't go into the cantina holds much water. First of all, entertainers will, as a rule, want to congregate in the cantina's because that's where the most experience is. Those who are grinding towards master are not going to stand outside of a starport when they can get triple the experience by grouping with other entertainers in a cantina, because that's where people know to go for that sort of thing, and I don't see that changing. Maybe you're concerned that the patrons won't go to the Cantina? I suppose that is a concern. But, I wonder, once the hologrind is over, and the entertainer population gets back to normal, how many people will choose not to entertain in a Cantina? Sure, I would go elsewhere from time to time for a change of pace. But, I can definitely see myself returning to the cantina's for social interaction a lot. And, I think most people still will, and patrons will still have to find us, and the most logical choice would be to go to the Cantinas. I think the Cantinas are such a part of the game at this point that people will still go there. I think due to the nature of our profession, people are likely to stay in the Cantinas even though they didn't stay in the med centers."
I can too. I don't mind the cantinas, I'm just saying, at least give me the option to buff elsewhere. At least say, "Hey, here is a droid, you can use him to buff people outside the cantina." Then let me choose if I want to or not. But not even giving me the ability to - while the other buffing profession in the game can - just doesn't seem right to me.
"My only concern I guess would be the afk buff botters. Those always suck anywhere because it takes away our opportunities. I really do think buffing should require being at the keyboard. If that were the case, I think being able to do stuff outside of the Cantinas wouldn't have too much of a negative impact, if any."
I was under the impression that you have to be inside a building that charges the amount you want to charge for the buff to let you in. My alt is a master doctor and I can honestly say I've never ever felt threatened by "buffbots", nor noticed a impact on "business".
Thanks for hearing me out, and again, I challenge you to start dialoging with your fellow entertainers when you are grouped with them. Then tell them to come post here so we can get a large number of people's opinion.
-Isaiah-
Digitarius wrote:
"My only concern I guess would be the afk buff botters. Those always suck anywhere because it takes away our opportunities. I really do think buffing should require being at the keyboard. If that were the case, I think being able to do stuff outside of the Cantinas wouldn't have too much of a negative impact, if any."
I was under the impression that you have to be inside a building that charges the amount you want to charge for the buff to let you in. My alt is a master doctor and I can honestly say I've never ever felt threatened by "buffbots", nor noticed a impact on "business".
Panthu wrote:
Digitarius wrote:Why is it that we cannot buff outside the cantina yet doctors can?Good points -Isaiah-, might want to try a less flame inciting title and tactic next time though.
There has been a lot more talk about extending our healing potential to other areas, I would like to be able to tell the Devs where we all stand on our different options. I know the concerns (death of cantinas mostly), but I'd like more input on the possibilities.
Maybe we can do a nice calm poll later.
lets face it for the most part cantinas are dead i mena ya people still go to them to behealed and what not but they are nothing to what they used to be 30 people in ah all in the cantina talking hanging out about 4 entertainers making there way to master atk. and in the larget cantinas 19 out of 20 entertainers were atk and the custemers stopped and talked to us some for hours it how i mety most ofmy ig friends. but lets face it those days are over most people think are proffesion is a joke and pointless and were all trapped inside small overcrowded building where we can really only do one or two of our dances because the limited space. and to whoever said outside entertaining didnt make sense and didnt fit in hello every here of street preformers bards etc.. it makes pefect sence.
BTW Isaiah, buffing in a camp certainly does not imply that you have to pick up novice scout... simply that you have to be with someone who DOES have it. If you're buffing for hunts, I would hazard a guess that that's not hard to do.
I mastered dancer twice this way and I'm on my way to doing it the third (don't ask). It is my personal opinion that the devs really don't want people to be entertainers. I mean look at it... we can't buff ourselves when doctors can, we can't buff anywhere but in cantinas, pc buildings or camps, and we can't heal bf in camps. So why are Doctors able to buff outside of hospitals? The answer is actually very simple:
SOE made a HUGE mistake, that's why.
All they've done, as people have mentioned, is forced them to the Starports. The hospitals that were once used are now completely deserted. There is no way I want this to happen to cantinas, let alone add to the spam and lag that's already happening at the starports.
So, to balance this out, is it a good idea to take away the doctor's droids? Heck no! That would be the worst thing to do. What they can do is make it so that a Doctor's buffs are better at a hospital than outside. I've noticed that doctors will not perform buffs in a player cantina because they are not as good as just outside. Well, them make the buffs outside not as good as in the hospitals.
Sure, this won't solve the problem of doctors being able to buff outside and entertainers can't, but where would you want a doctor to buff you?
"BTW Isaiah, buffing in a camp certainly does not imply that you have to pick up novice scout... simply that you have to be with someone who DOES have it. If you're buffing for hunts, I would hazard a guess that that's not hard to do."
True. You don't have to pick up novice scout to place a camp, someone who has it can do it for you.
My main point about placing a camp is that you cannot do it in the city. You cannot buff in the city because you cannot place a camp in the city. You cannot buff in the city because a 110 entertainer capability droid does not exist.
The main point of this thread is that doctors have the ability to buff (almost) anywhere, whereas the other buffing professions in the game do not. To me this doesn't make sense. The fact that you can setup a tent is mostly a side issue and the fact that I would have to take up novice scout to put up a tent BY MYSELF is a side issue also. I see your point, your saying that I wouldn't have to pick it up, just make sure I'm grouped with someone who can place one. And again, I come back to, doctors don't have to, they can pull out their droid. Why can't I? Why must I remain in a building?
FuschiaD wrote:
BTW Isaiah, buffing in a camp certainly does not imply that you have to pick up novice scout... simply that you have to be with someone who DOES have it. If you're buffing for hunts, I would hazard a guess that that's not hard to do.
Actually, Silly posted a fieldsolution a long time ago that makes a lot of sense... even though it's very strange role-playwise, heh.
Houses! Just the small ones... one lot, can usually drop them almost anywhere. I've seen a few people doing this, it seems to work pretty well. Especially for PvP where you can keep a /notepadded entry list to paste in.
Note: This says nothing on the whole Med vs. Ent Healing, I know... and the Devs have hinted in the past that they might take away the healing zones on houses... and the Rangers are some of our best allies (I'm not nuts about cutting them out of the loop), so be careful with this.
I have to admit, I've been tempted to pick up merchant so I could drop flashy Gypsy tents a la Javie though. 
Well, I think I may know the reason why, but you may not like it.
If my guess is right, it has nothing to do with any kind of balancebetween the professions, but more to some overall player traffic concepts, and a bit of roleplaying license.
It's been mentioned time and again that the devs wanted the cantinas to be the hubs of player social interaction; not just for purposes of chit-chat andgraphically beautiful chat rooms, but also as the place where eventually all players would end up from time to time.
Conceptually, this would be the place where lone players could find others to form hunting groups if they didn't already have enormous groups of friends to play with, players could locateprofessionals with needed skills for some task or another(rather than just the impersonal planetary search by profession), and even just do some good old-fashioned trade deals and sales amongst ourselves face to face. Social hubs are good for developing a sense of community amongst the player base, and are vital for availability of needed products and services in a virtual economy... consider the cantinas as a sort of combinationcommunity mixer and classic "adventurer's inn", for those familiar with old-school fantasy RPGs.
The means by which to preserve the social hubs for the above reasonsare the Entertainer professions - we get the tools in whichto draw players to those hubs in the form of Mind and Battle Fatigue healing (which anyone who fights will eventually rack up, and must come to us to alleviate), as well as some perks like buffs. Therefore, most would eventually be guided to these cantinas in the attempt to "encourage" the concepts into the reality. So, if we restrict the professions which fulfill the cycle to the locales that are desired for the hubs, then all theoretically works as planned. Allowing our part of the overall cycle to wander free destroys the larger issues and intent of traffic directing to encourage interaction between the player base. I completely agree with the theory, and think that it is good design.