Dancer Archive
Thread: Stimming the mind: A few thoughts
Hey, hey! This makes me feel a little better. 
IGNPC: How will it mesh with the basic game? Do you see them as separate experiences or will there be a lot of interaction between the current game mechanics and the new space-based sequences?
Haden Blackman: Our goal is to fully integrate Jump to Lightspeed with the core ground game so that they are one, seamless experience. We envision a great deal of interaction between the two realms. As just an example, space is an unforgiving place to be and ships used in combat take significant damage. Players will need to return to planets often for ship maintenance and customization, to heal battle fatigue and to sell their loot from space.
Go read the full article here.
Let me say again, I personally don't mind if we become Social Only... it just means I'll be fighting for props, costumes, new emotes, and more just pure fun stuff! I love Social Games that have these things and the ability to have one toon that can both do these things andgo fight if I want. That's really my main draw to SWG as a social player. 
We'll get to keep that either way as long as there are Entertainer profs and people playing them. I just want to make sure we have a chance to help shape our role, but I'm going to keep on Dancing no matter what the Devs decide that means. 
I think the real question to address is regarding what the integrated role of entertainers becomes if the system of driving players to cantinas for healing is no more.
As strange as it may seem to some that entertainers are healers at all, there isa stong logic involved regarding the overall system balance that includes the "social" professions. To truly have this "playstyle" a part of an MMORPG, we must somehow be integrated into the overall works.The healing angle was one solution to integrate us into the community at large; it may not be the only way to do it. However, if we are no longer required for any system whatsoever, how does this playstyle integrate?
When we reviewed Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided last year, we gave the game high marks for the use of the license. Though the game had its shortcomings, gamers got a strong sense that they were in the world of Star Wars. But while the locations and characters and quests were authentic and convincing, there was a key piece of the puzzle missing -- spaceflight.
I wouldn't rely on an article that lets this sentence pass into release. The author probably never played this game. Meeting in a futuristic city, getting drugged to go out with a group of power hammer wielding individuals in composite armor to hunt down creatures outdoors I never knew before starting this game... it's not really Star Wars. Feeling Starwarsy is when I start KOTOR or XvT. But the screenies look great
Entertainers are a social profession first. The healing is something tacked on so we can contribute to the community.
In behaviorism that would be called negative reinforcement. Players are given mind wounds and battle fatigue. To get them healed they must visit an entertainer. The term negative reinforcement means that something bad/unpleasant is presented, and the desired behavior (visiting entertainers) relieves this. It's like a parent grounding their child until the child apologizes. The child will probably say "I'm sorry" eventually, but most likely won't mean it, and will be even somewhat resentful of it. While it does accomplish the desired results (Players go see entertainers) since it does it by presenting something unpleasant, players are resentful, and blame the entertainers. Entertainers do have some positive reinforcement. Mind buffs would be a good example. However the negative is still more of a reinforcer than the positive. Perhaps what entertainers need isn't just more to do, but more to do that rewards players for going to the entertainers instead of punishing them for not.
Tiaga, you hit the point of my thoughts exactly.
I'd like to see more in the way of positive reinforcement from all of the entertainer professions. Rather than us just fixing the bad, perhaps we could provide positives as well?
I just have one little observation to make on the "positive reinforcement" idea; what starts out as positive reinforcement can quickly turn to negative reinforcement if said reinforcement is too powerful. To cite an example, I play early in the morning (right after the servers come up) and have lost track of the number of times I've heard people shouting "ne1 buffing????" Since there aren't usually any doctors on that early for some reason, the common reaction is to swear profusely and then log off. I've also hadseveralchats with players who said that one of the reasons theyleft other games was because they were too buff-dependent, and they didn't think they'd have to deal with buffs at all in a futuristic Star Wars environment (though these discussions were less frequent than the outbursts of swearing followed by logging out in a huff).
Whether we like it or not, the vast majority of players in MMOs feel that making as much experience as possible in as little time as possible is what they're supposed to be doing, that to do so is their right. I'm sure there are sociological reasons behind it, but what matters is that the attitude exists, and it's a prevalent one. Anyway, players who fall into that category believe they're doing something wrong if they're not making the maximum possible experience with the minimum amount of fuss. It's all one big competition to reach the end. If an ability is introduced that significantly enhances a player's ability to get experience quickly, there will be a great cheer at first; eventually, though, it becomes another source of mandatory maintenance for people to complain about, and we have plenty of mandatory maintenance already.
I still don't think we need any healing or buffing abilities at all and would surrender mine in a heartbeat if I could, but if we do decide to fight for those abilities, we have to be careful to make them worthwhile enough to seek out but not so powerful that people will feel they have to have them to play. As it stands, pretty much everybody feels obligated to get doctor buffs before they even go out hunting durnis, and that feeling of obligation engenders resentment as much as battle fatigue does.
Message Edited by Nhari on 04-21-2004 09:59 AM
Not an entertainer, so my apologies if I'm flying way of the mark here; but it always seemed to me that an entertainer should have more versitility in buff types;
e.g. Healing BF in Ranger tents (or maybe Master Scout), ability to buff certain resist states - maybe resist vs. dizzy and posture change for dancers and resist vs. intimidation for musicians (teaching coordination and inspiring courage respectively), maybe the ability to improve faction hence improving rewards for successful quests as a master entertainer ability and certainly the ability to self-buff.
I'm sure that those who play the profession have better ideas than these that would increase versitility 'in-field' for those that wish to do this as well as the social cantina side of things. This isnt a proposal for magical 'bard-like' abilities but just a suggestion for more veristility, which certainly makes more sense than a Doctor pumping someone so full of drugs that they become virtually immune to blaster fire.
I agree completely with the dangers of positive reinforcement turning into yet another "must have to compete" scneario, hence my caution that they should remain small perks.
I didn't foresee any "immune to states" perks... this puts these things into the "must have to compete" category and would clearly be unbalancing and lead once again to negative reinforcement. My thought was a slight edge... perhaps adding a 10% resistance to the states defense. Immunity would be a "must have"; slight additional resistance would be a nice edge that just might make a difference, but still no guarantees. Better system, in my experience.
I always love Deila's posts and relate to them personally very well, I'm glad to see Tiaga did too. Here's my little recap after rereading the whole thread again...I think there are many ways this could be accomplished though and the current BF restrictions are just one of the many ways to achieve this.
I would also like to see us have a reason to be in the Cantinas when no one else is there, and see the Cantinas be fun for non-Ents even when Entertainers are not yet on the scene.
Right now though, I need to know what of the healing process we need to protect or ask for... Ent Healing is only a vehicle for our over all Social purpose, but I need to know what kind of vehicle it needs to be for it to be fun for Dancers.
I personally also see nothing wrong with allowing some Dancers to have a function that would allow us to mingle with the fighting types more in their own territory during team hunts or in PvP as long as Cantina play is secured and maintained for Cantina only Dancers. This is a personal perspective though and one I know others don't necessarily share.
I think it's really important at this stage to be open minded in our options... but I need a few specific things to throw out to the Devs to test out the waters so to speak, heh.This is a new game concept and an exciting profession, I don't think that's just a marketing thing... I really believe we still have a ton of room to grow, but we have so far is great!
What will you all allow for Dancer playstyle? Even if it is not something you personally would like to do, what types of things will you allow other Dancers to do and still share your title?
How many of you are attached to healing as the vehicle? What other vehicles would you be open to? How much of a say so will you allow other professions in what they would like to see from Dancers? These are important questions I think. The Devs aren't necessarily Social types themselves and may have some difficulty judging these things when they see so much "we don't want this, we don't want that."I'd rather ask for too much and be told no at this point, lol. Still, anything we ask for needs to represent the greater player base. They need to be things that will enhance the profession as a whole or at the very least will not damage the other Dancers' playstyle. So! Keep talking, I'm taking notes.