Dancer Archive
Thread: JTL Flourish Fixes on TC
Ravenmist
Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:22 am
#14
Been playing with the new flourishes and the quest Dance both. So far my feelings go like this.
Rhymic.. err.. its sorta lame. But I didn't like it to begin with.. guess its good for something now. Nobody use to use it anyway, hehe. Now it has a use I suppose.
Footloose.... Wow.. solo its the dumbest thing I've ever seen. I especially love the flourish that looks like your fanning away a fart. Yeah.. wth where they thinking? LOL... but in a group it does look better and is pretty fun actually. So okay.. lets keep it.
Poplock.... Uber.. the new flourishes are a HUGE improvement over the crap it had before. Loving this change a lot. My only complain is it suffers from some of the flourishes being to fast. If they slowed the animation down it would look a lot more real/natural.
Lyrical.... liking the new flourishes for this too, but like poplock some flourishes are too fast, need to slow them down a little.
Theatrical.... only worth doing in a group, and even then not until they fix the base dance issues. So right now its totally freeking worthless. The dances flourishes are SO mobile that you can't even do them in a normal cantina properly. When they say Theatrical they aren't kidding, this dance is meant only for a Theater and only with other people.
The biggest problem with the new mo-capped flourishes, besides soem of them suck, is that their too fast. They may be mo-capped but their speed is all wrong in the game, makes them look very unpolished. If they took the time to polish these flourishes up we'd be in a lot better shape.
Shaizann
Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:44 am
#15
The new poplock flourishes are uber. I am not terribly thrilled with footloose, but we shall see. I'd be more excited about lyrical if others could see it properly.
Oh, and yes, the next highest priority on dance fixes is filling out the exoitcs with a full eight flos per dance, no doubt about it.
Oh, and yes, the next highest priority on dance fixes is filling out the exoitcs with a full eight flos per dance, no doubt about it.
Message Edited by Shaizann on 10-21-2004 06:47 AM
Xyrdre
Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:47 am
#16
Another thing that I really feel like I should add here... because so many people seem to think thatMoCap = perfect, and this has been quietly bugging me for awhile.
It isn't. Not at all.
MoCap technology, while greatly improved over the last couple of years, still does not do the trick on its own. There are two things about it. One, there are dropouts in the process of digitizing otherwise analog information, fluid movement. And two, as most animators are well aware, something that is perfectly 'true to life' does not look right on screen in animation. TheDisney animators in the Golden Era discovered this while developing rotoscoping techniques (tracing character movements from frames of filmonto cels to matchexactlyfilmed performances).It's weird, but things only look right if they're exaggerated, even just slightly.
MoCap is usually used as a first pass of animation - it gets the main animation curves into the animation software quickly and efficiently. It is then treated by skilled keyframe animators to polish it, refine it, and make it look right. Yes, there's a bit of subjectivity there, but you'd be surprised at how often we can all agree on when something looks right, at some sub-conscious level.
Okay, so all that said... 
I'd have to agree with Ravenmist on the speed issue... slowing them down just a touch would add a bit more of the fluid feel of natural movement. Beyond that, it looks to me like the MoCap data needed a bit more of a subtle touch-uppass from the animators. In some places, they have the look of higher-quality, but still raw, MoCap data... and I'd suspect that some didn't get a lot of the clean-up work they needed. Well, to my tastes anyway... we'll all have our opinions on the matter.
A lot of the visual problems we've had with the danceanimations aren't a MoCap vs. keyframed animation issue - just that some of the keyframed animations (old Poplock 5-8 come quickly to mind) just aren't very well-done keyframed animations. In that light, pretty much all of the new flo animations are superior, even if a bit unrefined. I just wish there was a bit more cleanup on that MoCap data, and some adjustments to some of the parts of the animations (Footloose flo 1, with the heads flopping so far forward and back like the neck is broken), and... well, some questionable choices in good dance steps.
Back to your regular programming...
Ravenmist
Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:57 am
#17
Xyrdre wrote:
I'd have to agree with Ravenmist on the speed issue... slowing them down just a touch would add a bit more of the fluid feel of natural movement. Beyond that, it looks to me like the MoCap data needed a bit more of a subtle touch-uppass from the animators. In some places, they have the look of higher-quality, but still raw, MoCap data... and I'd suspect that some didn't get a lot of the clean-up work they needed. Well, to my tastes anyway... we'll all have our opinions on the matter.
Right, thats sorta what I meant when I said they aren't polished. Xyrdre is absolutely right. Their mo-capped and way better then what we had, however the mo-cap is very sloppy and unpolished. Its like they took the raw data, gave it to a intern to play with for a day then slapped it in the game, hehe. Slowing them down a bit would be a big improvement with little time involved tho.
-Ravenmist
Balgosa
Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:26 am
#18
actually, the new Footloose dance animations are a 'lot' more accurate to the acual dance. It just happens that the 'actual' dance looks that ridiculous lol.
new poplock flos are my fav i can truely michael jackson now!
i can truely michael jackson now!oh and as far as the new dance. havent gotten it on test to find out if its fixed but my guess is no.
Message Edited by Balgosa on 10-21-2004 09:26 AM
Risharra
Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:51 am
#19
Argh! why did they take time to "fix" dances that worked fine? I liked all of them just fine...and footloose is...I can't even come up with a word for what it looks like, and if I could I'm sure it couldn't be printed here. What did they do?, get high on spice and do the most bizaare steps they could come up with? Also, what about formal and the exotics anything happening with them?
On a happy note Lyrical does look much much better.
Mariska, Master Dancer/Musician/Entertainer
Entertainment Coordinator of Datwi
Chilastra
Schardour
Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:53 am
#20
Mariska, you must admit, I'll look good doing those footloose moves!
Err...meant to say...I'll make those footloose moves look good 
Message Edited by Schardour on 10-21-2004 10:54 AM
Risharra
Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:00 am
#21
LOL if anyone can do it you can
Mariska, Master Dancer/Musician/Entertainer
Entertainment Coordinator of Datwi
Chilastra
Wokka
Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:10 am
#22
Kiriah wrote:
I loved the changes to Basic, Rhythmic, Poplock and the fix of Lyrical.
Footloose, not so much. Watching it in the movie made the flourishes look like rejected flo's from Basic and Rhythmic. Actually DANCING Footloose made me feel like I should be dancing in bear skins around a fire in a cave.
The original Footloose was never something to boast about, but these new Footloose flourishes seem to have absolutely no relation to the idle animation portion of the dance (Base dance?). At least the old/current ones look appropriate with the name and non-flourish animation.
Again, ALL the other flourish changes I adore.
Footloose: Bad.
Really wish I could have had a chance to try anything on TC in the last month. Since the JTL update on it, the launchpad crashes after login right about the time that directX should be loading. Regular live game runs fine. I'd love to try out the new stuphs.
PS: Hi Chirri!! (waves frantically) (shhhh!! You don't see me.)
Risharra
Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:20 am
#23
Mold grows on you too...but that doesn't mean it's a good thing
Mariska, Master Dancer/Musician/Entertainer
Entertainment Coordinator, Datwi
Chilastra
Oqua
Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:20 am
#24
I don't like the footloose flourishes now. 
I know I am probably the odd person out on this one, but they look so choppy now, almost like you aren't really dancing (reminds me more of someing doing low impact aerobics ).
I know I am probably the odd person out on this one, but they look so choppy now, almost like you aren't really dancing (reminds me more of someing doing low impact aerobics ).I will say this though....
I do think the new song for musicians is really neat, and I personally can't wait to get it.
Thanks for making the video of the new flourishes with the song.
Balgosa
Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:25 am
#25
you cant log into TC through the TC launchpad you have to log in through the JTL launchpad . that may be why your having issues.
Esharra
Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:29 am
#26
Balgosa wrote:
you cant log into TC through the TC launchpad you have to log in through the JTL launchpad . that may be why your having issues.
So glad you posted that Bal..you just saved Til a lot of grief.
