Dancer Archive
Thread: Kind of a goofy idea about Holodisk recordings
LyteFoot wrote:
Bajonett wrote:
Nice Idea. but useless if you can Macro it. The Buffbot sits in some secluded spot and charges disc after disc....
OK they are going someday its the timeline that isn't clear. We have got to stop gaging every single idea against this because it can't get worse but if we don't get some content it won't get better. I don't think this is macro-able by the ingame tools and if they are discovered using 3rd party tools then they are bannable. If it is macro-able I don't care, give us tools while the devs are working on new content. We will survive the bots or not but take advantage of dev focus to get us tools for when they do go away.
This part touches on another reason I wanted to kick off the idea here instead of an In Development thread. Do we think that this, or any similar idea,could really make things worse (in a worst case scenario), or when it comes down to buffs in the buffbot era, do we really have anything to lose?
When this idea hit me, I considered the possibility that even if bots could make the disks as well, having something that could effectively make a live performer's game mechanics accessible 23/7, if not the actual performance / contact / interaction part of it, could very possibly give the live performer a way to compete with bots on the "availability and convenience" part of the whole equation. Part of what I've gathered from some of the pro-bot arguments, at least from the less-than-completely militant faction, is that many of the combat players indeed do think that unattended "play" from entertainers is just fundamentally wrong, and at some level really would prefer to support someone who put the time and effort in to play. The hitch for them is... yep, they want convenience, and will turn to a bot if they don't feel they can get a live performer in whatever they consider to be a reasonable amount of their in-game time.
There will be some who just loathe the idea of having to talk to anyone in the game, especially those damned chatty entertainers. 
They will never be thrilled with us, pre or post recursive macros, just as many of us will never be happy with leet-speak. But, on the convenience issue alone, could we possilby recapture the part of that market for buffs that is really nowonly going to bots because we can't be on and playing constantly the way a macro can?
Is there really anything to lose?
Continue to discuss... it's the only way to really root out the flaws in the plans. Lots of heads are better than one.
- Does the current macro system coding allow for commands to be written that can select particular items in a backpack? If so, how is this done?
- Does the current macro system allow for commands to be written that can select an item in a person's inventory? Again, if so - how is this done?
- If this item was to be placed in the toolbar, is it possible to create a string of commands to /setperform the object, much like a regular crafting macro? And will this command still be executable after the removal of recursive macros (i.e. will this effect the /macro <name> command, the /ui action toolbarSlot# commands, or both?)
In regards to questions 1 and 2 on whether an item can be selected --> picked up --> used or /setperformed, Jaral was under the impression that no, there wasn't a way to target something either in your pack or your inventory using any kind of "targetting" command. From experience, she has found the only way to target something in your pack/inventory is to manually click on it.
The third question was a little harder to answer, as it is based on a hypothesis of whether or not holodisks might be implemented in this way, and the question is virtually teasing out a "what if" scenario. The bottom line is we don't know if we will one day get holodisks, let alone if they are an item that is like a loot-kit, whether it will become an ability to alter the holodisk much like that of a smuggler (a bit like "slicing" the disk but without the tools or knives) or if the holodisk will come with its own interface so we may "install" our buffs/healing onto it much like a crafter, or even to an extent the holodisk may be similar to an ID interface where a certain time must elaspe before the object can be deemed ready for use.
Also, question 3 was a little difficult to answer based on the fact that we know recursive macros are on the way out, but we do not really know the fine details as to what the removal of this function will entail. Will it be the removal of /macro commands, /ui commands or both? Again, we can only speculate on this.
I also tried a few things to test out whether or not certain things can be done - for example I tried placing several different types items in my toolbar (from my backpack and inventory) to see whether or not they can be targetted and whether or not written commands can be used to manipulate them. Basically, if the item does not have a function it defaults to a "examine" screen, but does not actually target the item - for example, a coffee table in the tool bar will bring up the "examine" window for thattable, but it will not actually target the item itself.
Food, clothes/armor, weapons all default to their basic function of what they are intended to do. Food and drink are consumed, clothes/armor/weapons are equipped ready for action. Again, activating them from thetoolbar does nottarget them.
Crafting tools - as many of us know - open an interface, and macros can be designed to cycle through the crafting process with minimal effort on the crafters part to click "next", "next" and "next". Crafting macros can be designed to select particular schematics from the datapad, and typically the only thing people have to do is click on the resources in their pack so they fulfill the schematic requirements. Even though this process is largely automated, it still requires the presence of the crafter at the keyboard to fill those schematics with the correct resources/components.
Items that are placed on the floor can be targeted with a macro - for example,drop a coffee table on the floor and clear your target focus. Typing a /target coffee table will put that coffee table in your focus. If you additionally add a /pickup command you will pick up the table and place it in your inventory, however by doing so the coffee table is removed from your target focus Also, I've found you can also /setperform objects as a "your attention is now focused on %NTT" message will come up. Currently, we can't tell if this does anything, as tables/clothes/armor/food do not show any effects of us doing so, but whether it will effect something like a holodisk is difficult to say. My guess would be no, as I've never been able to get my character to use items in the cantina/house to turn my character to face them using a /setp or even emotes. The only objects in the game that I can do that with are actual player characters (ie a /setp or an emote will make me face them) and thus far are the only ones that receive benefits from my doing so.
A few other interesting ideas and questions came to mind while I was experimenting:
- Discussion of Vendors as a pickup/drop off point: Can macros be created to not only open a vendor interface, but can items be bought/withdrawn from the vendor screen? While its an interesting question, after some thought I decided it was a moot point, considering it wouldn't matter due to the fact we cannot write a command to target things in a inventory/pack.
- Trade with other players: Again, it seems that afk trade with another player would also not be effective, as we cannot /macro target the holodiscs in our packs for us to "recharge" them.
- ID interfaces: I thought I'd throw this is for those who are IDs to spark some of thier ideas/experiences regarding macro creation and the use of the ID interface, so that we may have an idea of what we maybe looking at in case the holodisks are implemented in a similar fashion.
Anyways, these are just some ideas and some of the things I have found. I don't claim them as the be-all and end-all of the macro world, but it looks like a good place to start Anyone else have any other ideas/comments to tease out this holodisc scenario?
So, for our purposes here, it would simply be important to make sure that the first radial position was Examine, and any functional selections for recordingcame afterwards to avoid any ui toolbar abuses.I'd love to see this idea materialize. I may have missed it as I'm rather tired,but can objects accept the /setp while they are in the inventory (rather than in the room)?
Xyrdre wrote:
Anoewyn, and Jaral... you rock! This is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping we could pull into this.
Excellent!
Really, specific problem solving would be up to the devs, as they know a lot more about how this mess works than most of us. Still though... it's kinda nice to have a bit of the "it... could... WORK!" ready to go, to show the concept may not be a waste of time.
