Dancer Archive
Thread: Unity please!
Reachwind wrote:
Panthu, my concern is that as a member of the community my voice is not being heard and the people who are supposed to be representing it to the developers are chosing instead to ignore it or worse lable it as outcast.
It's not just me who feels that way, it's just me with the skin thick enough to accept the abuse you and the others pour on me when I come in here and make the points.
Reachwind wrote:
If that has been could you now please do that and help relieve some of the tension many of us our feeling about this? Just a simple acknowledgement that this isn't just OUR issue but a DANCER concern.
I clearly recall a post about that. Not just in the Dancer, Musician, Entertainer forums, but in other server and profession forums. I think all the Corrs have been busy fielding this one, since it pretty much came out of nowhere all across the board.
If anything...I feel bad for the Docs after the last patch.
Reachy, I may agree with you on some issues, maybe many, but I do not agree that you should be flaming our correspondents, past and present. I don't always agree with them either, and perhaps I agree with you more than I agree with them (I probably do), but personal flames and attacks are exactly what the OP meant. We should not be doing this to each other.
You have to realize that the corrs, while they may represent the community, still have to exercise their own judgment about issues. Eshie could easily say, "A lot of dancers don't like this," and yet also say, "But I agree with the devs that this is a good move in the long run." That would be well within her rights. She has an opinion. As our corr it should count a lot, and she should be able to express it. You should not attack her for doing so.
We have to learn to accept that people have other opinions. You're not going to get unity, no matter what. But we CAN be civil and refrain from personal attacks.
C
Reachwind wrote:
Panthu, my concern is that as a member of the community my voice is not being heard and the people who are supposed to be representing it to the developers are chosing instead to ignore it or worse lable it as outcast.
It's not just me who feels that way, it's just me with the skin thick enough to accept the abuse you and the others pour on me when I come in here and make the points.
Well, from my perspective - I think the move the Devs pulled with Publish 20 was hair-brained and just plain stupid, and I've barked enough around here for my perspective to at least be known. There is no reason to remove Battle Fatigue when there is almost NOTHING to maintain the dynamic of cantinas being social hubs in the game. They are now for the grinders, looking for a little xp boost...or crafters, who aren't of the mindset that inspiration buffs actually hurt crafting results (haven't made up my mind yet on that).
I would assume that my perspective (and the perspective of those who agreed with me) has been voiced, and at this point, I'm tired of yelling. There's been the backlash from those who are happy to just dance and play music and nothing else, and that's understandable. I won't further any aggression around here, because my point has been made. I think the Devs have gone about this all wrong, and I don't find it right to have them charge us a monthly subscription to this game that we've not seen a true role as a Master Dancer and Master Musician since the CU in April. We are at 3 months and counting of a non-existant elite Entertainer profession benefit (Image Designers not included).
I think the bottom line is - you're not going to get the satisfaction of a Dev saying, "I know how you feel, Reachwind - and we're going to make it all better for you tomorrow." Hell, the Devs can't even be bothered to post much besides a new Issues Thread everyday, lately.
Be prepared to remain without a unique, valuable community benefit from Dancer or Musician for a couple more months - and given that, consider how to proceed.
In the end, if the money's not worth the game, stop playing the game.
If we get to August 24th, and Dancer and Musician still don't have elite profession buffs, or we haven't received ANY timeline of when to expect to have our masteries worth something again, I'm done. More than four months waiting to feel truly useful again in this game is a lot to ask, Mr. John Smedley. Four months is not asking for patience - it's playing me for a fool, to the tuneof $60.
And yeah, ya know - I probably will end up paying $75, and then $90, still waiting to have some great community benefitas a Musician. Because John Smedley knows just how much of a fool I really am, and he's probably laughing all the way to the bank right now...as he should be.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 07-22-2005 10:44 AM
I have also mentioned my personal experience of being repeatedly dismissed and out right flamed by past and present correspondents here. I don't attack people here, I only debate opinions. Some of the people who frequent here get very emotional and go beyond just debating opinions like the aformentioned Ubi who went back and rated every post I made with one star because he didn't enjoy my counter argument to one of his opinions. That did result in some mud slinging between us here that I have never lived down (since he is someone that a lot of people here have close personal relationships with).
I have never said that any correspondent should be without opinion, but I do think that ALL community views need to be equally represented and not just cherry picked based on correspondent likes.
Reachwind wrote:
Panthu, my concern is that as a member of the community my voice is not being heard and the people who are supposed to be representing it to the developers are chosing instead to ignore it or worse lable it as outcast.
It's not just me who feels that way, it's just me with the skin thick enough to accept the abuse you and the others pour on me when I come in here and make the points.
Message Edited by Cuit on 07-22-2005 09:18 AM
No, Chessack was on a break when you went after Ub in the name of the true Beta Dancersand even made a post slamming her in the title. I've still not seen anyone other than you pull a stunt like that in here! That freaked me out, I admit it. On a personal level, that freaked me out. I still stickied your darn valid threads though! How can you say you weren't being heard?
I can't help it that we haven't gotten everythingthat you wanted for us. Deila couldn't. Esh can't.
It has nothing to do with friendships or grudges. I think we all agree a lot more than you seem to think we do on real prof issues and needs, butnone of us get to see our plans executed by the devs exactly as we'd like to. Not corrs, not any players. It just doesn't work like that.
I'm a player too! I'd love it if they did come in here and talkwith us every day! I hope they read every post in here for themselves, I know they do read a lot of them. I'm sorry that you feel like you are being unfairly hushed, but I just don't think there is any grounds at all for you to be saying this just because the devs are not doing what you personally would like for them to and you don't like any of our corrs on a personal level - the two really aren't related!
Just try to remember that we are all valid social players if we are attracted to these profs and post in here. Then maybe you can let go of some of this spite, Reach. I really hope you can, it bums me out to see you going after everyone who you feel isn't just like you.
Reachwind wrote:
I have also mentioned my personal experience of being repeatedly dismissed and out right flamed by past and present correspondents here. I don't attack people here, I only debate opinions. Some of the people who frequent here get very emotional and go beyond just debating opinions like the aformentioned Ubi who went back and rated every post I made with one star because he didn't enjoy my counter argument to one of his opinions. That did result in some mud slinging between us here that I have never lived down (since he is someone that a lot of people here have close personal relationships with).
In all the posts Ive read with your name in it i have yet to see what your opinions are. Just more "no one listens to me" posts. Please for those that have been absent explain what your opinions are so I can catch up. Thanks 
Also you may not be personally attacking the corrs but you are coming off as extremely abrasive toward them. I would also say that you were attacking them but perhaps your text just has the wrong tone attached to it. Maybe something to keep in mind when posting.
As for me, I don't see how we're gonna be unified until we know what exactly it is we do in this game. Do devs have a role for us to fill? What is the part they envision us playing in the galaxy? Maybe if I knew that I was only supposed to be an inspiration buffer or simply pure fun side game content I would have more of an opinion. But as of right now all I can do is wait until I have more information. They say their not done with us, ok so what's next?
What do devs see entertainers core function as?
Answer that I an will tell you if I have the same vision as they do. Perhaps I need to adjust my view. Perhaps I need Eshie to show Devs my view. But right now I dunno what the heck is goin on!
Reachwind wrote:
You just can't have unity when a major portion of the community is having their voice silenced and under represented to the developers by our community liason.
Reachy, this is what I am talking about. This is a (not very) veiled personal attack on at least Esharra, and probably Panthu and others, because you are stating that the correspondents are "silencing" us and not representing us. You're not-so-obliquely accusing them of being self-serving and essentially bad correspondents. This is not name-calling, because you haven't named anyone directly, but it certainly qualifies as a veiled insult, at the very least. In my book this is a personal attack. You're accusing our correspondents of willful malfeasance, and it's not a very nice thing to accuse them of.
C
Chessack wrote:
Reachwind wrote:
You just can't have unity when a major portion of the community is having their voice silenced and under represented to the developers by our community liason.
Reachy, this is what I am talking about. This is a (not very) veiled personal attack on at least Esharra, and probably Panthu and others, because you are stating that the correspondents are "silencing" us and not representing us. You're not-so-obliquely accusing them of being self-serving and essentially bad correspondents. This is not name-calling, because you haven't named anyone directly, but it certainly qualifies as a veiled insult, at the very least. In my book this is a personal attack. You're accusing our correspondents of willful malfeasance, and it's not a very nice thing to accuse them of.
C
Yup yup.. what C said.. you may not name people, but your comments are often snide, and underhanded personal inuslts.. thatI have seen, and I see them in almost allof your posts..
Chessack wrote:
Reachy, this is what I am talking about. This is a (not very) veiled personal attack on at least Esharra, and probably Panthu and others, because you are stating that the correspondents are "silencing" us and not representing us. You're not-so-obliquely accusing them of being self-serving and essentially bad correspondents. This is not name-calling, because you haven't named anyone directly, but it certainly qualifies as a veiled insult, at the very least. In my book this is a personal attack. You're accusing our correspondents of willful malfeasance, and it's not a very nice thing to accuse them of.
C
I had to look up this word to make sure it wasn't cheese for my stickies. For those like me that don't know big words:
mal·fea·sance
Misconduct or wrongdoing, especially by a public official.
There I may have helped someone. *marks off her good deed for the day*Make sure you use it in a sentance today!
Reachwind wrote:
Panthu, my concern is that as a member of the community my voice is not being heard and the people who are supposed to be representing it to the developers are chosing instead to ignore it or worse lable it as outcast.
It's not just me who feels that way, it's just me with the skin thick enough to accept the abuse you and the others pour on me when I come in here and make the points.
Why not take your opinions directly to the Devs themselves, then?
Yeah, Pex is just the Events dude...but hey, he's a Dev, and he's now well aware of my opinions that PEP's should be Entertainer content, not content for a friggin' NPC.
And yes, I'm still filled with hate that an NPC sells a box that plays better music than I ever can in SWG. And now Pex knows that, too.
Find your opportunities and take advantage of them. If you feel like your voice isn't being heard, make it heard.
thats a verb . . . right? lol
SkySCREAMER wrote:
Chessack wrote:
Reachy, this is what I am talking about. This is a (not very) veiled personal attack on at least Esharra, and probably Panthu and others, because you are stating that the correspondents are "silencing" us and not representing us. You're not-so-obliquely accusing them of being self-serving and essentially bad correspondents. This is not name-calling, because you haven't named anyone directly, but it certainly qualifies as a veiled insult, at the very least. In my book this is a personal attack. You're accusing our correspondents of willful malfeasance, and it's not a very nice thing to accuse them of.
C
I had to look up this word to make sure it wasn't cheese for my stickies. For those like me that don't know big words:
mal·fea·sance
Misconduct or wrongdoing, especially by a public official.
There I may have helped someone. *marks off her good deed for the day*Make sure you use it in a sentance today!