Dancer Archive
Thread: Help! (Advice needed)
(I dont know your in game name but I'll use your forum name in this example )
I bet it's more like there's something in there like "/tar Sho" or "/smile Sho" that has a partial word or a word that is included in your name and not specifically your entire name. That would be way too creepy otherwise.
Hasn't this kind of garbage been tolerated long enough now? /sigh
Esharra wrote:
I'm glad to hear it all worked out ok. Btw..musicians are allowed around here anytime..several are permanent residents. Care for a cookie? *points to warm cookies in the plate on the table*
Message Edited by Esharra on 08-05-2005 09:53 PM
yay cookies
(leaves purple and orange fur all over the cookiee tray)
Auntisocial wrote:
Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but I've seen this attitude promoted on this board and I've decided to speak up about it. I don't see choreographed routines set to macro as a "disease". I disagree that the only way to be an "atk" player is to sit at your keyboard and press a function key to perform a flourish every so often.
Ashe
I think you may be misunderstanding. Most players who speak up here have no problem with macro use and do use macros in their performances themselves. I believe that Ikewe is referring to something that has always annoyed me and appears to be becoming more prevelant; that is dancers who, rather than perform, run a dance macro (often complete with"tip me" shouts) basically to keep them in game while they chat in group or tells. They appear to be AFK and perpetuate the opinion that we're all AFK.
I frequently visit cantinas while on alts so I can get the spectators perspective of what's going on with dancers. There is a clearly obvious difference between a player who is performing for an audience and one who is not. I often immediately follow these visits by dropping by the same cantina on my main (can't help it..gotta dance)and it is dismaying to find that so many people really are there..but just can't be bothered to be there for the audience.
Esharra wrote:
Auntisocial wrote:
Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but I've seen this attitude promoted on this board and I've decided to speak up about it. I don't see choreographed routines set to macro as a "disease". I disagree that the only way to be an "atk" player is to sit at your keyboard and press a function key to perform a flourish every so often.
Ashe
I think you may be misunderstanding. Most players who speak up here have no problem with macro use and do use macros in their performances themselves. I believe that Ikewe is referring to something that has always annoyed me and appears to be becoming more prevelant; that is dancers who, rather than perform, run a dance macro (often complete with"tip me" shouts) basically to keep them in game while they chat in group or tells. They appear to be AFK and perpetuate the opinion that we're all AFK.
I frequently visit cantinas while on alts so I can get the spectators perspective of what's going on with dancers. There is a clearly obvious difference between a player who is performing for an audience and one who is not. I often immediately follow these visits by dropping by the same cantina on my main (can't help it..gotta dance)and it is dismaying to find that so many people really are there..but just can't be bothered to be there for the audience.
i noticed this 2 last nite as i was out of the main ent group(letting a guilding grind id on me) i knew for a fact at least 3 of the peeps where there but it took about 20mins of bugging them to draw them out of group chat to talk with me
Esharra wrote:
Auntisocial wrote:
Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but I've seen this attitude promoted on this board and I've decided to speak up about it. I don't see choreographed routines set to macro as a "disease". I disagree that the only way to be an "atk" player is to sit at your keyboard and press a function key to perform a flourish every so often.
Ashe
I think you may be misunderstanding. Most players who speak up here have no problem with macro use and do use macros in their performances themselves. I believe that Ikewe is referring to something that has always annoyed me and appears to be becoming more prevelant; that is dancers who, rather than perform, run a dance macro (often complete with "tip me" shouts) basically to keep them in game while they chat in group or tells. They appear to be AFK and perpetuate the opinion that we're all AFK.
I agree with Esh here.. I'm sure Ikewe was referring to the people who run bot macros 24 hours a day even while they're "ATK," and ignore patrons except if they get an unusually large tip they sometimes say a thank you.
For me personally the epitome of this was one of the Flurry buffbots that showed up shortly pre-CU. She wanted to be considered an "ATK" entertainer and was extremely rude and bitter because the ATK community rejected her, and started a lot of hateful forum battles calling us elitists for not welcoming her. She ran a bot macro complete with "invite me" and "don't forget to tip" spam /shouts, 24 hours a day/7 days a week, but was "ATK" for a few hours a day and felt that those few hours disqualified her as a buffbot even though she ran the same macro and behaved the same regardless of if she was ATK or AFK, and the behavior was damaging to entertaining as a whole.
This is the issue that people are upset with.. not the use of performance macros, but the misuse of both unattended and attended macros as a way to get the game mechanics benefit of entertaining without putting in effort.
Honestly I don't see what we can do. If a person is ATK then it falls under "valid playstyle" because they are playing. It's only when they're AFK and not playing that, IMO, we have the right to say they're exploiting the system.
This is one of the things I've feared since this whole AFK nightmare started, and I think when a lot of us use euphemisms like "this will be the death of entertaining," these are the kinds of things we're talking about.
Personally there are a lot of times when I'm not talking to every person who comes in the cantina. If there's any one else ATK I usually just stay quiet and let them have all the "business," because I'm really not all that social (ironic, huh?). But if someone is obviously watching me, or a friend comes in, or someone asks a question, etc. etc., I do my damnedest to answer. I never, never ignore anyone (errr unless they're /addignored or really scary), though I'm sure we all have those moments when we're preoccupied.
Esharra wrote:
Auntisocial wrote:
Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but I've seen this attitude promoted on this board and I've decided to speak up about it. I don't see choreographed routines set to macro as a "disease". I disagree that the only way to be an "atk" player is to sit at your keyboard and press a function key to perform a flourish every so often.
Ashe
I think you may be misunderstanding. Most players who speak up here have no problem with macro use and do use macros in their performances themselves. I believe that Ikewe is referring to something that has always annoyed me and appears to be becoming more prevelant; that is dancers who, rather than perform, run a dance macro (often complete with"tip me" shouts) basically to keep them in game while they chat in group or tells. They appear to be AFK and perpetuate the opinion that we're all AFK.
I frequently visit cantinas while on alts so I can get the spectators perspective of what's going on with dancers. There is a clearly obvious difference between a player who is performing for an audience and one who is not. I often immediately follow these visits by dropping by the same cantina on my main (can't help it..gotta dance)and it is dismaying to find that so many people really are there..but just can't be bothered to be there for the audience.
Well... the forum just decided to wipe out my carefully worded response (I know better than to try to post without copying my text. Shame on me!).
I'll try again. Thank you for your response. I will tell you, though, that I have been censured at least once for including a "smile" in my macro. (Sorry... after years of hearing my teacher yell "SMILE!" and "ARMS!" it is reflex and not meant as spamming. As far as I am concerned smiling is part of a performance.)
I would never shout for tips. LOL It's not only annoying it also shows a complete lack of class. I don't dance for tips (even though Ashe was my first character and has been dancing since the 2nd week of play). I make my money elsewhere. I will tell you that, as an oldtimer to the game but a newcomer to the boards, that it is upsetting to see the contention here. With regard to bots, if this were real life I would give the advice my father gave me, "Take care of your own behavior, that is what counts. If you have time to criticize others you have too much time on your hands." It seems to me the devs have made it difficult to take this kind of advice as they (IMHO) just rewarded bots by taking away much of our purpose. *I have a feeling this conversation belongs on a sticky somewhere.*
SWG created a wonderful new world for people who never played these types of games with their first release. They had it right to begin with. After a day of hard work (or combat) everyone needs a break, so they gave us the cantinas to find respite, relax and heal. I would love to see them return to this format. Unfortunately, I believe they are catering to a different crowd.
Again, thank you for your response and I will look for the proper place to post further thoughts. 
Auntisocial wrote:
Well... the forum just decided to wipe out my carefully worded response (I know better than to try to post without copying my text. Shame on me!).
I'll try again. Thank you for your response. I will tell you, though, that I have been censured at least once for including a "smile" in my macro. (Sorry... after years of hearing my teacher yell "SMILE!" and "ARMS!" it is reflex and not meant as spamming. As far as I am concerned smiling is part of a performance.)
I would never shout for tips. LOL It's not only annoying it also shows a complete lack of class. I don't dance for tips (even though Ashe was my first character and has been dancing since the 2nd week of play). I make my money elsewhere. I will tell you that, as an oldtimer to the game but a newcomer to the boards, that it is upsetting to see the contention here. With regard to bots, if this were real life I would give the advice my father gave me, "Take care of your own behavior, that is what counts. If you have time to criticize others you have too much time on your hands." It seems to me the devs have made it difficult to take this kind of advice as they (IMHO) just rewarded bots by taking away much of our purpose. *I have a feeling this conversation belongs on a sticky somewhere.*
SWG created a wonderful new world for people who never played these types of games with their first release. They had it right to begin with. After a day of hard work (or combat) everyone needs a break, so they gave us the cantinas to find respite, relax and heal. I would love to see them return to this format. Unfortunately, I believe they are catering to a different crowd.
Again, thank you for your response and I will look for the proper place to post further thoughts.
Well, since the OP issues have been solved *cheers* and the thread semi-hijacked I may as well butt in
I just want to say, that there has been an honest misunderstanding on your part. I know Ikewe in game and have always looked up to her, she is an incredible dancers and player.
I’m 100% sure you and her are talking about totally different types of macros. Performance macros and spamming macros have nothing in common. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a routine on a macro, not all of us type with a lightning speed *blush*, so being able to perform and interact is not always easy. Then also there are those performers who have incredibly complicated routines on their macros, which would be hard to manually duplicate. And let’s not forget those who add songs to their routine, to type it each time with perfect timing could be too much. All those are “good” macros, when used in appropriate time they enhance the performance and make for a great show.
Spam macros are different, usually if I see them on a newbie they were given to them by some “helpful” player in many cases with no malice intended, it was usually non-entertainer who going by what he/she seen in so many cantinas believed that’s how it’s done.
The spam macros make them look AFK even if they aren’t, because they are short, repetitive, boring and in general annoying. If someone has /flo #; /pause 10; /flo #; /shout don’t forget to tip your favorite entertainer; /pause 10; /flo #; /shout tip plz; and so on looping over and over like a broken record regardless what, anyone who sees them will automatically assume they are AFK and sad thing is, way too many new entertainers are running those types of macros. Saturday morning I seen one with “/say let me ease your fatigue;” being repeated every minute or so, the player was ATK and told me the macro was given to him by some customer the day he started. It was the only macro he had and consisted off all 8 flourishes being repeated in order, every 10 seconds with the “say” line right before the loop. He’s been running this macro since the day he started playing and even thru he was ATK the very first impression anyone gets is AFK zombie.
Anyways, I better stop rambling here, the point is, you misunderstood Ikewe’s post, I’m certain of it. She was not referring to complicated, performance macros but to annoying spam macros.
Auntisocial wrote:
I will tell you, though, that I have been censured at least once for including a "smile" in my macro. (Sorry... after years of hearing my teacher yell "SMILE!" and "ARMS!" it is reflex and not meant as spamming. As far as I am concerned smiling is part of a performance.)
You could always do /mood happy or /mood cheerful instead, and get a constant smile without any spam.
Umi
Sunjammer wrote:
Auntisocial wrote:
I will tell you, though, that I have been censured at least once for including a "smile" in my macro. (Sorry... after years of hearing my teacher yell "SMILE!" and "ARMS!" it is reflex and not meant as spamming. As far as I am concerned smiling is part of a performance.)
You could always do /mood happy or /mood cheerful instead, and get a constant smile without any spam.
Umi
Sorry... smiling at specific points as you perform specific moves is NOT spamming. It doesn't really matter now, I took them out. However, you (not directed at you personally... but the dance community in general) have no right to dictate to me what I can and cannot do during a live performance.
I consider the live dancer standing in front and center of the cantina "greeting" EVERYONE as they walk in more spamming than a smile or two during a routine.
Ashe
Message Edited by Auntisocial on 08-08-2005 12:00 PM
Message Edited by Auntisocial on 08-08-2005 12:03 PM
Message Edited by Auntisocial on 08-08-2005 12:04 PM
what the heck does "arms" mean? lol
sorry I was a pianist growing up not a dancer 
SkySCREAMER wrote:
what the heck does "arms" mean? lol
sorry I was a pianist growing up not a dancer
It means don't let your arms flop around... hold them in the proper position. LOL
Auntisocial wrote:
Sunjammer wrote:
Auntisocial wrote:
I will tell you, though, that I have been censured at least once for including a "smile" in my macro. (Sorry... after years of hearing my teacher yell "SMILE!" and "ARMS!" it is reflex and not meant as spamming. As far as I am concerned smiling is part of a performance.)
You could always do /mood happy or /mood cheerful instead, and get a constant smile without any spam.
Umi
Sorry... smiling at specific points as you perform specific moves is NOT spamming. It doesn't really matter now, I took them out. However, you (not directed at you personally... but the dance community in general) have no right to dictate to me what I can and cannot do during a live performance.
I consider the live dancer standing in front and center of the cantina "greeting" EVERYONE as they walk in more spamming than a smile or two during a routine.
Ashe
I'm sorry you've had some bad experiences with some other dancers, Ashe, but perhaps you can try to forgive them . They are probably just reacting from the numerous abuses to the profession itself as well as from AFK macros in general. Many others have included emotes and messages that often repeat every 30 seconds or so (sometimes even more often), and /smile is a common one. It can certainly make some people a little touchy when they start seeing the same emote from the same person too often. I would hope that had looping macros never been available or at least not been abused, perhaps these same dancers would never have given a second thought to your use of the /smile emote.
That being said, I'm sure you can appreciate that seeing the same generic message from the same person (PlayerX smiles) or even different messages from the same person a little too often (PlayerX giggles ... PlayerX fidgets ...) can get annoying when those messages fill up your spatial chat window and clutter your visual space with speech or emote bubbles. I think it's part of active entertainer etiquette to try not to be too repetitive in whatever you do. Now I've never seen your macros so I'm not trying to say that this applies to you. I'm just speaking generally here.
At the same time, greeting people as they come in is generally considered good practice for entertainers. Yes it does fill spatial chat and visual with the greeting messages especially if there's a lot of traffic, but at the same time people do like seeing pleasant things addressed to them so it's a way to help people feel welcome as they come in to the cantina which is the atmosphere that entertainers should try to foster. In a good, lively cantina scene there will be lots of things going on and lots of messages and emotes flying around, and the actions of any one person are going to be less noticeable anyway. In this sort of environment unless you're pretty blatantly spamming, you'd be lucky if anyone even notices a little /smile emote every once in a while.
Message Edited by DanceRulez on 08-08-2005 01:40 PM