CUEmu - Thread Posts

Aleyo

Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:52 am

Well, I'd say they're griefing us already.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=musician&message.id=16646

Scipionus Mentus
Master Musician, Master Entertainer, Master Dancer - Tempest
-I support ATK people and playstyles.
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

Goldy_Lhim

Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:25 pm

#15

FuschiaD wrote:

I try to immobilize buffbots as often as possible. It's not always possible - buffbots are getting smarter and smarter with their macros - but sometimes it IS possible to find two or three that have no /disband command, group 'em together, make one of them the leader, and disband. Ahh, that always makes me laugh. LOL

hahaha its brilliant!

G O L D Y
Event: Holiday Party H A W T P A N T S
D A N C E & M U S I C Ent-Mode FTW!
Join Kauri's Entertainer ChatI M A G E D E S I G N

Drygo

Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:43 pm

#16

meeuki wrote:

you are right of course, you should always keep fighting for it. my beef with this profession and it's community is that i feel it rarely concentrates is collective energy on improving the profession for the purpose of entertaining, and more often concentrates it's efforts on ways to be more efficient and wealthy doormen.

right now you all can dance. nothing's horribly broken. you all can form bands and troupes and entertain in the theaters. but nobody will come. why? because of afkers? because of buff bots? in truth it's because the devs won't allocate resources to the problem but at the same time crying loudly about something that only really effects your tips and ability to greet others is a waste of energy imo. i'd like nothing more than the dancing community to get behind your correspondant, vote on one change that would greatly enhance your ability to put on performances and hammer it home at every available oppertunity. there are so many arenas for performance in this game that go underutilized and honestly i think that's partly the communities fault.

so forgive me if i was snide before, you are absolutely right about fighting for a cause.

Actually, I would disagree with what you've said here. You are right that we can form bands and troupes and that nothing is "horribly broken" in regards to entertaining. I agree. However, that's exactly why I don't think that we need to focus on that right now. We need to focus on what is doing us the most damage. And, right now, that is buffbots.

What I disagree with you about is that "nobody will come." When, I perform in a group--an actual performance, at a starport or where there are already people, we get quite a big audience. People always stop and cheer and say how cool it is. Similarly, when I was part of troupe and performed, whether at specific events like weddings or simply an RP night at a Cantina, we always had an audience. Sometimes the audience was only 10 people. But, sometimes the audience could be 40+ people. There is a demand for real, organized entertainment. And, being someone who has entertained in these types of venues, I can unequivocally say that people come--as long as you are organized enough to either make a big, entertaining production in a public place *or* organized enough to advertise for your event. People will come, they have come. They've enjoyed and they've cheered, and they've tipped. Yes, some base dances are broken and there are some other minor problems. But, for the most part, I would have to say that the "entertaining" part of our profession is actually working quite well. To me, pushing for things to be more entertaining, while certainly valid, is simply icing on the cake. I will never complain about enhancements, such as our droids. But, I won't be pushing for them, because I don't consider them to be broken because we can get an audience in these venues.

On the other hand, the buffing is broken beyond belief. And, that's why I feel it's not only important, but necessary, to work as hard as possible to end this scourge.

- I support hawtpants

Kitachiira

Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:29 pm

#17

Aleyo wrote:
Well, I'd say they're griefing us already.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=musician&message.id=16646

I never said a buffbot was completely justified. Ever. Just because I have a combat skill does not mean I think like that in the least. You know the old adage though: Two wrongs don't make a right. That's how I think. I will NOT grief someone because they're doing it to me. That's lowering myself to their level and I won't do it. I'm sorry, if by my refusal to partake of any retaliation, you assume I think it's ok. I don't think buffbots are good at all. I know they hurt the entertainment profs a great deal.

I do need to let you know something though. After I quit dancing before, I heard quite a few complaints from lots of people about not being able to find someone to buff them.(not all the time but frequently)Dance or music. Some of my friends said they could stand in the cantina in Theed or Cnet for15 minand send tells and ask in spatial if anyone was buffing and get either a "no" as a reply or just dead silence. I know this to be true because I myself, after I went pure combat, had the same problem repeatedly. You get fed up going form planet to planet trying to find someone. Ispent 45 min looking one time.I just went without. Yes, I have never used a buffbot and I never will. However, some of my friends have turned to buffbots for this reason. Not because they want to, but because it was the only way for them to get the buff they felt they needed on a regular basis. Even, when I was dancing before, there were times when I was the only master dancing buffing in Theed. I play everynight and for more than a couple hours so I have had the opportunity to see this lack of masters buffing quite a bit. That's just my personal xp.

There are 2 sides to every controversy, remember. Both sides need to be considered if any viable solution is to be reached.

I don't like buffbots any more than any other entertainer but I don't think griefing them is going to help at all. Besides harrassing the devs, we need to really encourage more masters to get out there and buff even for an hour of the time they're on. The easier it is to find someone atk to buff, the fewer people will hunt down a buffbot. Players want easy access. I know it's tough when the bot is right in the cantina. I faced that myself. Sometimes I won, sometimes I lost.

There are tons of wonderful entertainers who buff pretty regularly and I don't meanto insinuate there isn't. I'm mearly stating my xp and the xp of my friends and others I know. Nothing more.I myself set up a schedule so I could buff and enjoy my combat prof. My clients knew when I was buffing and when I wasn't. They seemed happy with that. If anything came up to throw my schedule off, I would buffs those who sent me a tell when I could and meet them where I could. I had no complaints because I made myself reasonably accessable for buffs.From what I've been told,that's all most people want from us: accessability.

So in a nutshell, I do NOT like buffbots but nor will I grief them. To fight back though, I WILL make myself as accessable as I reasonably can as I did before because the more people buff the fewer buffbots there might be. Maybe.

Just me stating a thought and my own xp. Nothing more.

Drygo

Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:37 pm

#18

I agree with you. Just because you don't support "griefing" buffbots doesn't mean you are a buffbot supporter. I think that's very valid and noble. And, nobody should ever accuse you of being a buffbot sympathizer just because your values don't allow you to condone what you consider to be griefing.

However, I guess I do take issue to being considered as "lowering myself" to their level. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. But, we often do things in our daily lives in self defense. And, "griefing" the buffbot, to me, is nothing more than self defense, and defense of the profession. I see nothing wrong with it, nor would I look down upon anyone who chose to do it. Sometimes ya just gotta take matters into your own hands when you don't get help from above. Maybe you might consider me revenge-minded and don't like that quality. I can understand that. But, basically, what goes around comes around. And, if I or someone else is able to cause people who have buffbots some degree if misery for all the misery that they cause us...well, I'm not gonna say they don't deserve it. Cuz, they do. Their callous disregard for me and 3 entire professions doesn't leave me any room to feel sympathetic towards them in the least. If you're going to cause others misery, you should fully expect to be targetted for a little bit of misery yourself. It's just how the world works. It gets to a point where sometimes I feel I am fully justified in using whatever tactics I need to use to protect myself and my livelihood. I don't think I'm lowering myself, I think I'm participating in a war that was started by those who think of only themselves. They don't care about me, so why should I care about them?

I go out of my way to be there for people, and be on call for people, and I'm repaid by getting my livelihood taken from me. Well, sorry, you're gonna have to pay some consequences for that betrayal.

- I support hawtpants

FuschiaD

Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:26 pm

#19

See, this is where we get into the whole "is grouping with a buffbot really griefing" thing. I don't think it is. I mean... their whole purpose is to group. Okay, that's sort of justifying, but honestly. If they don't want people to group with them... they shouldn't be doing what they're doing.

Bottom line: I'll continue to do what I have to to fight the buffbot invasion. If I'm told by a CSR that what I'm doing is wrong... well, I'll probably still do it. And then I'll cancel my accounts and tell SOE to suck me.

~*~ F U S C H I A D A R K W A L K E R ~*~

Yes, I'm a respec Jedi. Get over it.

~*~ A V A D I H A L O N A - S O E P ~*~
Entertainer For Life - COMPNOR Eye Candy
"You don't really rank around here unless you've been flamed by Oben, trolled by Mono, set straight by Geen, got caught in a love triangle between Cherry and Anoq, had your house decorated by Kipera, hugged by Esin, fondled by Fuschia, had IG respond with something inane and nonsensical, or at the very least been (a.) asked "can I have your stuff" or (b.) been accused of being a Todd by any number of random Tarquinian posters." --TalonKarrdeTN/Tyndaleon

meeuki

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:00 am

#20

BioDroid wrote:
I have an alt that's a Master Entertainer/Dancer 4-3-4-4/Musician 4-0-4-0. Buffbots hurt my ability to gather healing xp to make it to master. I'll admit, I've held buffbots "hostage" to fill my own evil designs of making master Dancer.
My favorite was this musician buff-bot who didn't have a macro to restart his music in case hes stopped playing (Whoops, the /stop command worked wonderfully on him, and I was able to release my hostage.)
Bestine really ticks me off because it's Buff-Bot Du Jour on my server with several buff-bots often times taking up residence at once. THe ones who really tick me off are the ones who spam "Please tip me for my time!." Dyargh.
I don't care if "this fight has been fought and won already." It seems that there are enough people here who are willing to continue that fight. If indeed our energy is truly "boundless" then we have more than enough reason to fight for this casue as well as others.
Perhaps the devs will see it our way, perhaps not. Why should that stop us from fighting for waht we believe is right for our profession?

you are right of course, you should always keep fighting for it. my beef with this profession and it's community is that i feel it rarely concentrates is collective energy on improving the profession for the purpose of entertaining, and more often concentrates it's efforts on ways to be more efficient and wealthy doormen.

right now you all can dance. nothing's horribly broken. you all can form bands and troupes and entertain in the theaters. but nobody will come. why? because of afkers? because of buff bots? in truth it's because the devs won't allocate resources to the problem but at the same time crying loudly about something that only really effects your tips and ability to greet others is a waste of energy imo. i'd like nothing more than the dancing community to get behind your correspondant, vote on one change that would greatly enhance your ability to put on performances and hammer it home at every available oppertunity. there are so many arenas for performance in this game that go underutilized and honestly i think that's partly the communities fault.

so forgive me if i was snide before, you are absolutely right about fighting for a cause.

Replicant.NonStopDisco.Kettemoor
Tactic.Ycoto.Kettemoor
ATM.Gorath
make server transfers free you crooks!

Aleyo

Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:31 am

#21

Kitachiira wrote:

Aleyo wrote:
Well, I'd say they're griefing us already.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=musician&message.id=16646

I never said a buffbot was completely justified. Ever. Just because I have a combat skill does not mean I think like that in the least. You know the old adage though: Two wrongs don't make a right. That's how I think. I will NOT grief someone because they're doing it to me. That's lowering myself to their level and I won't do it. I'm sorry, if by my refusal to partake of any retaliation, you assume I think it's ok. I don't think buffbots are good at all. I know they hurt the entertainment profs a great deal.
I do need to let you know something though. After I quit dancing before, I heard quite a few complaints from lots of people about not being able to find someone to buff them. (not all the time but frequently) Dance or music. Some of my friends said they could stand in the cantina in Theed or Cnet for 15 min and send tells and ask in spatial if anyone was buffing and get either a "no" as a reply or just dead silence. I know this to be true because I myself, after I went pure combat, had the same problem repeatedly. You get fed up going form planet to planet trying to find someone. I spent 45 min looking one time. I just went without. Yes, I have never used a buffbot and I never will. However, some of my friends have turned to buffbots for this reason. Not because they want to, but because it was the only way for them to get the buff they felt they needed on a regular basis. Even, when I was dancing before, there were times when I was the only master dancing buffing in Theed. I play everynight and for more than a couple hours so I have had the opportunity to see this lack of masters buffing quite a bit. That's just my personal xp.
There are 2 sides to every controversy, remember. Both sides need to be considered if any viable solution is to be reached.
I don't like buffbots any more than any other entertainer but I don't think griefing them is going to help at all. Besides harrassing the devs, we need to really encourage more masters to get out there and buff even for an hour of the time they're on. The easier it is to find someone atk to buff, the fewer people will hunt down a buffbot. Players want easy access. I know it's tough when the bot is right in the cantina. I faced that myself. Sometimes I won, sometimes I lost.
There are tons of wonderful entertainers who buff pretty regularly and I don't mean to insinuate there isn't. I'm mearly stating my xp and the xp of my friends and others I know. Nothing more. I myself set up a schedule so I could buff and enjoy my combat prof. My clients knew when I was buffing and when I wasn't. They seemed happy with that. If anything came up to throw my schedule off, I would buffs those who sent me a tell when I could and meet them where I could. I had no complaints because I made myself reasonably accessable for buffs. From what I've been told, that's all most people want from us: accessability.
So in a nutshell, I do NOT like buffbots but nor will I grief them. To fight back though, I WILL make myself as accessable as I reasonably can as I did before because the more people buff the fewer buffbots there might be. Maybe.
Just me stating a thought and my own xp. Nothing more.

Just to clear something up, I didn't actually intend to grief the combat players by actually creating a killstealbot. The purpose of the post was to put our experience into a hard example that combat players could relate to, and hopefully see that by putting a buffbot next to me, you are indeed griefing me by stealing my buff customers, just as a killstealbot would steal a combat pleyer's loot possibilities.
I'm also of the mind that two wrongs don't make a right, so I won't be out there griefing other players (of course, that doesn't mean I won't kill a buffbot.. a buffbot is not a player).
In terms of buffing availability, this is something I know won't be fixed until the buffbots are gone. There simply is not enough benefit to buffing when the bots are giving them away for free. I strongly believe that if the buffbots were taken away, that within a relatively short period of time there would be more buffing entertainers. The demand for the buffing entertainer is there, and it's currently being met by the supply of buffbots. The demand will still be there if the buffbot goes away, and people will take up the entertainer professions to help their guild or city or group of friends. For example, I'm a great asset to a PvE group, as a master musician and soon to be TK master. I can go with a hunting group, buff their minds, and join in the battle. I still get the fun of the combat, and I'm also a benefit to the group.
The only thing is that it'll take a while for the supply to show up, as it will likely be from people starting fresh in the profession. But rest assured that the demand is there, and if the free supply were taken away, the new supply will take over.

Scipionus Mentus
Master Musician, Master Entertainer, Master Dancer - Tempest
-I support ATK people and playstyles.
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

BarrakFoss

Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:12 am

#22

my only probs with buff bots is thy clutter the place up ... i wish thy would just go off to the side ...

Jadzya
Master Pikeman & Dancer

Kitachiira

Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:22 pm

#23

Aleyo wrote:

In terms of buffing availability, this is something I know won't be fixed until the buffbots are gone. There simply is not enough benefit to buffing when the bots are giving them away for free. I strongly believe that if the buffbots were taken away, that within a relatively short period of time there would be more buffing entertainers. The demand for the buffing entertainer is there, and it's currently being met by the supply of buffbots. The demand will still be there if the buffbot goes away, and people will take up the entertainer professions to help their guild or city or group of friends. For example, I'm a great asset to a PvE group, as a master musician and soon to be TK master. I can go with a hunting group, buff their minds, and join in the battle. I still get the fun of the combat, and I'm also a benefit to the group.
The only thing is that it'll take a while for the supply to show up, as it will likely be from people starting fresh in the profession. But rest assured that the demand is there, and if the free supply were taken away, the new supply will take over.

I agree with everything here. The buffbots made it so entertainers don't even want to buff anymore and that is a real shame.

I don't think we'll ever get rid of them completely but if we could just decrease their numbers, it would help. I'm not even sure if us offering free buffs would help.

The only thing we can do I think, besides previously mentioned ideas and harrassing the devs, is just by trying to encourage other entertainers to buff and to advertise that they're available. The more people know we're around, maybe the fewer will use a bot. Every single client gained, is the bot's loss and a victory for us. Lame, I know but honestly I can't think of anything else.

Well, I can but it all involves bloodshed and griefing!

It's sad. It really is and I wish there was a simple solution. Not so lucky though.

Kitachiira

Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:51 am

#24

Drygo wrote:

However, I guess I do take issue to being considered as "lowering myself" to their level. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not.

You're right Drygo. I shouldn't have used that phrase and I apologize for that. I obviously wasn't thinking when I used it. No one is "lowering" themselves. Just trying to find ways to fight back and there's nothing wrong with that.

Again, I'm sorry.

Tangleweb

Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:19 pm

#25

bump


ariaCaroleemaRosariaCaroleemaRosari
aCaroleemaRosariaCaroleemaRosariaCa
roleemaRosariaCaroleemaRosariaCarol
eemaRosariaCaroleemaRosariaCaroleem
aRosariaCaroleemaRosariaCaroleemaRo
sariaCaroleemaRosariaCaroleemaRosar
iaCaroleemaRosariaCaroleemaRosariaC
aroleemaRosariaCaroleemaRosariaCaro
leemaRosariaCaroleemaRosariaCarolee
maRosariaCaroleemaRosariaCaroleemaR

Drygo

Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:47 pm

#26

So, tonight I got into an argument with one of my friends. I was over on Tatooine dropping some things off at someone's vendor. She was on Coronet getting ready to go kill some nightsisters. She jokingly said to me, "so are you going to come buff us (her and my other friend) or do we have to use Shalina?" Shalina is the 23/7 buffbot that resides in the Coronet Cantina. She does both dancer and musician buffs and has a very complex macro running. I'm not sure how exactly she does it but she's apparently able to keep track of everyone who doesn't tip her and puts them on ignore. (Yeah, seriously, they've gotten really complex now.)

Now, I knew my friend was joking...well, her "demand" for me to come buff her was a joke, I know. But, I also am aware that she and my other friend both use Shalina quite often when I am not around. So, I basically told her, however, to not even joke about that to me. And, I think she knew my "tone" was serious and she retorted with a "well, I try to use a live dancer, but nobody's here and I need them and blah blah." Then, basically all hell broke loose.

You see what these buffbots do to me? LOL. It's even pitting me against my friends at this point. Well, by the end of the argument we were friends again. But, what I said up above is not really the point of my story, it was just background to get to my point.

During the course of our argument I was trying to explain how difficult it was for entertainers to sell buffs anymore and she was using the many justifications that we've all heard for buffbots before. So, to prove a point I went to Coronet. I said, "I'm going to stay here for an hour. I won't spam, but I will occasionally advertise, and we will see how many customers I get."

An hour passed by, and besides my two friends I got no customers. I advertised. But, I refuse to spam like Shalina does, every 10 seconds. Every couple of minutes I'd target Shalina, and notice that she had about 10-15 people in her group. Even my two friends tried to help me out by shouting every once in awhile, "Come get a live master dancer buff from Drygo" or something to that effect. So, that was basically myself and two friends, three people total who were actively advertising. Still, not one buff sold, but everybody continued to make a beeline for Shalina, and she had 10-15 customers the entire hour, nonstop.

Finally, after that hour was up, I said, "Have I proved my point?" They both said yes. I didn't dare ask them to stop using buffbots but I told them never to mention it to me again.

Buffbots need to be stopped. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but this is serious and gamebreaking. And, I really, really, REALLY need some good news. I don't want to stop playing this game, I really don't. But, something has to change...it just has to.

- I support hawtpants

Dancer Archive

Thread: how to stop a buff bot