Dancer Archive
Thread: Holo 'may let entertainers heal mind in the field'
I do this for several reasons.
In the cantina, I interact with dozens of people and look at the same 4 walls. Out in the field, I'm socializing with my group and actually having some rather cool interactions in combat settings.
In the cantina, the only animals I get to see are the ones that the creature handlers come and show me. Out in the field, I get to fire my weenie little blaster at critters and cheer along with the group when the critter is brought down.
In the cantina, I dance for strangers and regulars, enjoying the banter and cringing at the annoyances that happen. Out in the field, it's more personal. I dance for the people who trust me enough to keep their minds intact in a less controlled situation. In the field, I can dance with Ewoks and Gungans, or just look up at the two moons on Endor and smile to myself.
I have been treated EXTREMELY well by the groups I have travelled with, and will continue to Camp Dance, whether or not we'll be able to heal battle fatigue there.
The last thing we want is for the game to force players to alter the playstyle of their class, especially after that class has been established for over 2 months now. Most of the pure dancers I know have health bars about 2 pixels long and wouldn't last a minute in the field.
I'm a little different because I'm also a TK/CH. I solo in the field regularly and always dance at other camps I come across, or for the group I'm in. I just don't expect other dancers to do the same thing.
This is a sticky problem. Nothing should be done to dilute the already-thin significance of entertainers or the value of the cantina as social center. But something MUST be done to make entertainers more valued.
In another thread, I suggested making our mind buffs an active command where we must target a player and /buffmind in order for them to see the benefits. It would not only gimp the AFKers, it would also give us a tangible product to sell. The 50% effect is significant, but the 30 minute duration (max) is anemic. Make it competitive with Master Doc buffs and we finally have something. No need to go to the field, though Master Dancers like myself could still do the buff in camps just like I do now.
I posted my 2 credits on the thread and threw in my bid for us to get it. Now some of you may ask why or disagree with doing it so let me explain myself. I for one will probably never make use of this ability, I really don't have any desire to go around following people and healing their mind damage. A lot of people in our community however do want some way to participate more with groups and be helpful outside the cantina. This may not be the only way, and it may not even be the best way but its something and we need anything at this point. We need a way to get out of the cantina if we want to, this does that.
This does not mean we won't look for other better ways and things to do in the future, but this is on the table now and I wouldn't be doing my job if I just past it up without even trying to get it for you. At this point we need anything we can get and to be perfectly honest I do think it makes more sense for us to get it then Medics, and even Squad leader. Tho I do think if anyone else then us gets it it should be the Squad Leaders. The mind is our ballpark so we are the most logical choice here. We heal mind wounds, we heal fatigue, we enhance mind stats so why not heal damage too?
Anyway, I know some of you may not think this is a good idea but I need to look out for those of us that do as well so I hope you can understand my pushing for this.
Tiaga wrote:
I worry that making entertainers a must have of any combat party is a bad idea. Not all classes are meant to go into combat. All the artisans fit this category. Why can't entertainer?
See, I worry that giving something must have to an entertainer would make us even less needed. How can that be? Well, the powerplayers will fill out their ranks with what they need, and if entertainers fits that, they will make sure they have an entertainer around. That means every big group will have their own entertainer to watch, and I find when people have their own entertainer and want to go heal, they will watch their own entertainer instead of the band at the cantina.
So now you're left with many entertainers not bothering to stick around the cantina, and the few that do only entertaining people not part of a large PA.
We've been discussing this issue in the Ranger forums as well, and the general consensus there is that some sort of BF healing should be allowed in the field. However, to make it worthwhile it would take a Master Ranger, with the high tech base camp, and at the very least a Novice level entertainer to kick it in. Apparently, the Rangers will someday get a semi-permenent camp, one that will stay up for perhaps 10 minutes without the Ranger present. Perfect place for the entertainer to wait out the hunt.
So the power players bring an entertainer along - why is that a bad thing? Gets you out of the cantina, you can see the various worlds and make far more money than competing for tips with a group of LAMErs. As a compromise, perhaps BF could be lowered in the field, but not all the way to zero.
Speaking for myself, and not necessarily for Musicians generally, I am strongly in favor of a mind heal for entertainers. In fact, as Correspondent, I regularly get this suggestion from other Musicians, which makes me wonder if Musicians as a group are more enthusiastic about the suggestion than Dancers. In any case, I posted my personal opinion in Holo's thread on the subject. Some thoughts on this:
1. A mind heal is consistent with our profession's main function:to improve morale, to boost spirits, to soothe. Some Dancers object, reasonably,that it seems silly to "shake it" in the middle of battle to help heal mind. (This may be part of the reason Musicians may be more open to the idea: there is a long tradition of martial music in battle.) But perhaps it wouldn't be necessary to dance or play music during combat. Perhaps one could conceptualize the mind heal as a "morale boost" that grants a gradual heal-over-time -- a lingering after-effect of dancing in the camp between battles. In other words, one dances or plays in the camp, conferring both a Mind buff (which should be MUCH more efficient than it is now) and, once battle starts, a groupHeal OverTime -- or, for that matter, asingle-target mind heal.
2. Sure, Squad Leaders should also have a mind heal -- but theirs could be an insta-heal, a "rallying cry" distinct from the heal-over-time ("lingering morale boost") conferred by us. But confining the heal to one elite profession would be inconsistent with how SWG approaches health and action damage, which can be healed by anyone with Novice Medic. Entertainers should get the mind heal too.
3. I don't think Medics are the best choice for a mind heal. They're already highly sought-after in groups, and they're already very busy in groups. Doctors and especially Combat Medics do need some love, but I'm not sure a mind heal is at the top of their wish list.More to the point,having more than one battle-healing profession woulddiversify groups, which makes grouping more interesting. SWG needs more diversity roles in combat. Right now, my carbineer/musician just shoots and occasionally heals mind wounds. It would be nice to have more to do.
4. Some entertainers object that they don't want to fight, that some professions should be combat-free. Nothing in Holo's proposal would require entertainers to fight. The devs have never suggested that they'll eliminate the requirement that BF be healed in cantinas, hotels, or theaters. Thus Holo's proposal merely gives us the option to get out of the cantina now and then -- it doesn't require us to do so.
- NewJedi, a/k/a Ricky Starwalker, Master Musician, Master Entertainer, and Novice Carbineer, Chilastra
ImpSlave wrote:
We've been discussing this issue in the Ranger forums as well, and the general consensus there is that some sort of BF healing should be allowed in the field. However, to make it worthwhile it would take a Master Ranger, with the high tech base camp, and at the very least a Novice level entertainer to kick it in.
I cannot even BEGIN to express how bad this would be for dancers. First off, most of the classes wouldnt shed a tear, if they never had to come to a cantina, and some would be happy to see dancers to be removed from the game. Doing this would be a huge step in that direction. Any large group would just need a masterranger, and any other player with novice entertainer, which from what I can tell, a good chunk of the population has. Now as it is, you all can set up your camp, and heal up your wounds, but you have to come back to us to get rid of the BF. With what you propose, you would never ever ever in a million years have to make a return from the middle of the wilderness. The master ranger (who has novice entertianer?) and his entire posse would be able to be involved in combat indefinately, and allow the ranger to solo indefinately. Something like the 'perpetual Kryat Hunting Camp' would result, where the party would never stop rocking.
I swear the day something like this happens, I am bloody done with dancer.
Ximma wrote:
I cannot even BEGIN to express how bad this would be for dancers. First off, most of the classes wouldnt shed a tear, if they never had to come to a cantina, and some would be happy to see dancers to be removed from the game. Doing this would be a huge step in that direction. Any large group would just need a masterranger, and any other player with novice entertainer, which from what I can tell, a good chunk of the population has. Now as it is, you all can set up your camp, and heal up your wounds, but you have to come back to us to get rid of the BF. With what you propose, you would never ever ever in a million years have to make a return from the middle of the wilderness. The master ranger (who has novice entertianer?) and his entire posse would be able to be involved in combat indefinately, and allow the ranger to solo indefinately. Something like the 'perpetual Kryat Hunting Camp' would result, where the party would never stop rocking.
I swear the day something like this happens, I am bloody done with dancer.
*puts on asbestos suit, ready for the flaming to begin*
Honestly, I now avoid the cantinas as if they were plague houses. Why? I'm tired of walking into one and finding nothing but LAMErs licking, kissing, snogging and spamming for tips. I'd just as soon take care of BF in a armorsmith's shop than go into the cantinas. And I originally wanted to become a Master Dancer. *sigh*
One of our favorite hunting spots is on Yavin IV - a 7000 meter walk from the outpost. Yeah, I'd rather stay out there perpetually and have at least some of my BF healed in a Master Ranger's camp. I'm not saying all, but if 2/3 of the damage can be fixed, I can take care of the rest in town, my house, wherever. I seriously doubt that the entertainer class will be done away with;but as a class, entertainers have to evolve and adapt to the changing economy.
"letting medics heal it, but take mind wounds"
I like that idea the best. Entertainers would be needed in camps to heal the doctors, while the doctors healed the soldiers. Makes great sense.
"The idea that Squad Leaders should have ANY healing role is silly to me, "
I completely disagree with you on this Sinda. Squad Leaders are a 100% group dependent class and at the moment there is no reason for a group to havea squad leader. Giving them the ability to heal mind damage(not wounds as some of the others in this thread seem to think) via a group heal that heals the entire group's mind(except the squad leader, who would take mind damage for this) would give people a reason to group with them. Although mind/focus/willpower buffs would be more in line with what the profession currently entails, SOE already screwed the pooch on that by giving doctors health & action buffs(all of the long term stat buffs should have been passive squad leader abilities IMO).
I am of two minds on this issue. Giving mind heals to another class wiill ultimately have the effect of marginalizing entertainers in this game to a greater extent than before. It will also undercut the rationale for having an entertainer/combat hybrid character in your group. I predict that dancers will not be happy with the effect on tipping behavior either.
The problem is that a pure dancer at least is not really suitable for being in a fighting group anyway. The only combat-applicable skill at the master level is the +7 +5 defense bonuses, and I do not even think that defensive bonuses work at all, much less have any significant effect. Moreover the ideal stat setup for a dancer (high action/stamina/quickness at the expense of all other abilities) is not combat friendly. I also suspect that giving a combat-related ability to entertainers will just further justify the already abysmal job the developers have done in making non-combat quests and content available to professions that might not want combat skills at all but still want to participate in the game.
I do not doubt that squad leaders need help. But I do not think that is a particularly stong argument for saying this skill is one they shoudl have. The fact that they do does not necessarily mean that they should be improved by adding that particular skill. I think on balance I would prefer to have entertainers get that skill so that there was some hope for some dancers to be involved in the games combat content and the galactic civil war if they chose to.
Okay, .. my two cents.
1. Don't make our abitlity to heal BF be dependent on havinga Master Ranger camp. I don't like this. (when a Master Ranger can pick up Novice Ent. and be a more valuable healer than a Master Dancer, then the game is TOTALLY broke).
2. Don't allow battle fatigue to "instant healed" as it is now. If outside of a cantina, ie. in a camp, let BF be healed, but make the fatigue healing come at one tenth the cantina speed.
3. Mind buffs... Great concept, but they totally fail in implementation. Current use: Spend 10 minutes mind buffing in a cantina in Bestine. Begin running to anchorhead, mind fully buffed. Half way there, mind buff expires. Useless. Give it a REAL duration. I don't mind the 10 minutes to obtain the buff, but having it expire so fast makes it worthless.
4. Change mind wound/BF healing. Separate the skills into "Cantina Healing" and "General Healing". Names suck, but the concept is this: Entertainers only get Cantina Healing. Not until Dancer/Musician do you get General healing, which allows healing outside of a cantina. (ie camp/house).
Bener wrote:
Personally, I tend to agree with this sentiment. I chose to be an entertainer to entertain, not to kill. Many others, however, are beginning to be dissatisfied with this character concept and want the entertainer to become more effective in combat. I think there are a number of reasons for this.
1. Pure entertainers don't generally make the credits that a crafting or combat class does because only a small percentage of the gaming population pays them for their services.
2. With the small number of roleplayers in the game, it can be boring performing inside the same building all the time. A combat role would alleviate this boredom by giving an entertainer something else to do when no one is roleplaying at their usual haunt.
3. The preponderance of AFK macroers and the tendency of a large portion of the player base to respect only characters that can effectively kill large animals and blow up buildings (or make weapons that help them kill large animals and blow up buildings) have chased many dedicated, full-time entertainers into the field. These same entertainers do not want to give up the skills they've worked hard for, but they also don't want to be looked down on by their fellow gamers who either assume that they AFKd to the top or are just a silly carebear or a scimpily-clad object designed as the recipient of licks and other crude emotes.
4. The game's canned content is highly geared toward combat classes. The only content that is sought by most entertainers that I know of is clothing and housing. There are no gig missions that make it worthwhile to travel. There are no entertainer theme parks. There are no entertainer badges to my knowledge. The last SWG storyline event involved killing 100s of npcs that most specialized entertainers couldn't handle alone.
5. Being "the best" entertainer (an ME/MM or ME/MD) requires a lot of skill points, and it is difficult to find enough left over to master an elite combat profession (although possible). Since many people want to be the best, they aren't satisfied with dabbling in combat, because they want to be the best at that too, and they don't have the skill room anymore. As a combat entertainer, they could still be the best.
I'm sure these reasons don't apply to all entertainers, and I'm sure there are other reasons entertainers want a combat role, but overall, my guess is the most potent drive is a desire to feel "needed". Many entertainers don't have that feeling, whether they are correct or not.
If I had my preference, I would perform and roleplay most of the time and lend a hand with whatever pistol skills I could muster up in combat--without turning into a bard. Unfortunately, every entertainer isn't me, so many are shouting for changes. If these changes come, I won't be surprised, and many entertainers will be happy with them.
Bener
What makes entertainment suffer is that the developers made them such a heavily roleplayed profession that having one as a primary class requires a thriving social scene to be fun. Crafting flourish sequences without an interactive audience will only entertain one for so long. Playing for hours with below average financial or game rewards will cause disillusionment, without a doubt.
Unfortunately, most players out there aren't in it for roleplay, and time spent in the cantina or other social setting is time away from killing monsters and imperials. If we want to fix entertainers without turning them into bards, this problem is what needs to be fixed, but I don't really see how.
So, until something happens, I will continue to enjoy the game as an entertainer who plays with the minority that actually makes the game feel like Star Wars, and I'll try to ignore everyone else. If we turn into bards, well, so be it. I don't have to like it, but I certainly understand it.
Bener