Dancer Archive
Thread: Dances and combat defense
Dravenite83 wrote:
I actually dont worry too much about the defenses of my char so I rarely check my tree. BUt what you guys are saying is that since you can dance you should have defense mods as good as a COMBAT class. While yes dancers are nimble dancing and dodging attacks are two totally different things. And I personally dont care if you guys get it or not, just my opinion that a class such as yours should not get combat ability. I mean before they give what is supposed to be a social class combat ability they need to fix all of the broken defenses that other classes have. And as for defense acuity and CoB, for us TK they have been working on only a sporadic basis for a while now. So my opinion is that if they want to add defense to you guys thats kinda retarded but ok. As long as they fix the OFFENSIVE classes first.
Ok you still aren't getting it. The bonuses that are being discussed are sleepers. Should dancers get fencers special attacks? no....but if someone was to choose dancer along with fencer then these two classes would compliment each other and the dodge that does nothing for the dancer by themselves would kick in and the proffesions would work together. As far as state defenses go, i don't think dancers should get these BEFORE the other combat classes do. What we are talking about here would all happen in the CB so that hopefully everyone would be balanced and get the proper defenses.
Dravenite83 wrote:
Ok. What I was getting at is that dancers are (in my opinion) given a low amount of dodge to reflect their nimble and lythe movements. However the reason they are not given more would be that the movements learned through dancing should not convert into a combat situation. When is the last time you saw a soldier do a pirouette on the battlefield or do a poledance while fending off enemy troops? The point I am making is that the type of movement learned in dancing does not actually transmit into combat situations. There is a difference between flexibilty and being competant in battle.
Dravenite83 wrote:
Ok. What I was getting at is that dancers are (in my opinion) given a low amount of dodge to reflect their nimble and lythe movements. However the reason they are not given more would be that the movements learned through dancing should not convert into a combat situation. When is the last time you saw a soldier do a pirouette on the battlefield or do a poledance while fending off enemy troops? The point I am making is that the type of movement learned in dancing does not actually transmit into combat situations. There is a difference between flexibilty and being competant in battle.
We don't have dodge, we have def... dodge only counts with one handed weapons... melee and ranged def are non-dependent... I thought you said this shouldn't be anRP reasonand you could understand the RP reasons.
When you bring up RL for a game mechanic justification, that is RP. *boggle* I'm sorry, I'm starting to think maybe you really just don't want to see Dancers "get anything good"... which means I am agreeing with Dragul... which is scary. 
Dravenite83 wrote:
The point is that defense in COMBAT IS DIFFERENT THAT DANCING! I dont care how many points are spent. By your logic BH should be THE combat profession. However BH is lame. No defense and average damage at best. Also I dont recall when watching bruce lee fight seeing him give any mind buffs or heal anyones battle fatigue with a nifty little song. The point is you guys are meant to be a support class. Yes you spend a lot of points. So does Doctor. However when I did doctor I didnt whine that I didnt get defenses or combat bonuses even though I spent34 moreskill points and thousands of credits to achieve it. You guys IMO are just asking too much. Look at CM, the most blatantly combative support class, they get terrain negotiation and burst run, notice they however recieve no defenses. And they too cost more skill points. And yes I do realize they can do sick damage but I am sure this will be completely nerfed by the revamp. All I am trying to get across is that the only profs that deserve to have ANY combat advantage are COMBAT classes.
Rookaru wrote:
Making any entertainer class more practical or playable would make the game a better place for all of us and I really hope these ideas get some strong consideration when it comes time.
I guess that's the real question.
I don't care about rl or the history of dancers. SWG isn't rl, and our history has nothing to do with the StarWars universe. For me, having played a dancer for months and months, I just figure if you're a dancer and want combat defenses, pick up a combat class. Dancer's aren't combatants, pure and simple. The fact that we get ANY combat related bonuses at all is amazing, since, like someone already mentioned, it takes more to Master Doctor and they get NO combat defenses for it.
Kreistor wrote:
Rookaru wrote:
Making any entertainer class more practical or playable would make the game a better place for all of us and I really hope these ideas get some strong consideration when it comes time.
I guess that's the real question.
I don't care about rl or the history of dancers. SWG isn't rl, and our history has nothing to do with the StarWars universe. For me, having played a dancer for months and months, I just figure if you're a dancer and want combat defenses, pick up a combat class. Dancer's aren't combatants, pure and simple. The fact that we get ANY combat related bonuses at all is amazing, since, like someone already mentioned, it takes more to Master Doctor and they get NO combat defenses for it.
Ugh, why do people keep using other professions to make a comparisonto dancers getting defenses? OK...umm yeah in a way docs get defenses...they can heal any state (such as intimidate, poison, disease, bleeding, fire, etc.) If that's not useful in combat nowadays, then what is? I know many people that pick up that specific line of doc to help them fend off nasty cms. Why can't dancers want to have some type ofbonus to make them moreuseful in combat also? Not every dancer wants to get heavy into rp or spend all of his/her time in a cantina. Maybe some people wanta mix of a social profession with a combat.
Am I saying that docs and other professions shouldn't get defenses? No,I just saying why can't dancers have something a little extra besides thetiny amount we have now, so we can actually have a little help with our combat?! Why can't other non combat classes have a little defensefor that matter? Who is it hurting?
My dancer happens to be a combatant. She's also a master tka/brawler. She's out fighting nightsisters, dancing at raids, and attempting to kick rebel a$$more than she's in the cantina. Wouldn't it make sense for a trained fighter that dances on the side to be a little more nimble and balanced in combat? Not every dancer is rping adelicate flower.
I don't argue that some professions like bh need somemoredefenses also, I'm a former master bh myself. However, this is the dancer forum, where people come to talk about dancing. If I want to talk about bh or docs I'll go to their forums.
Thankfully, the devs want every profession to participate in the GCW, andhopefully for a dancer, this will mean additional defense.
AllyaEcati wrote:
Kreistor wrote:
I don't care about rl or the history of dancers. SWG isn't rl, and our history has nothing to do with the StarWars universe. For me, having played a dancer for months and months, I just figure if you're a dancer and want combat defenses, pick up a combat class. Dancer's aren't combatants, pure and simple. The fact that we get ANY combat related bonuses at all is amazing, since, like someone already mentioned, it takes more to Master Doctor and they get NO combat defenses for it.
Ugh, why do people keep using other professions to make a comparisonto dancers getting defenses? OK...umm yeah in a way docs get defenses...they can heal any state (such as intimidate, poison, disease, bleeding, fire, etc.) If that's not useful in combat nowadays, then what is? I know many people that pick up that specific line of doc to help them fend off nasty cms. Why can't dancers want to have some type ofbonus to make them moreuseful in combat also? Not every dancer wants to get heavy into rp or spend all of his/her time in a cantina. Maybe some people wanta mix of a social profession with a combat.
OK...umm yeah, docs that heal themselves in combat. That's not a defense, that's an ability. What I meant by defense is 'Defense vs Ranged' or 'Defense vs Melee'. Basically, the equivalent to what Musicians and Dancers get at Master.
If you can use an ability to help in combat, that's great, that definitely makes a doc more useful. And I understand that people who play entertainers aren't always into RP. But that shouldn't mean that they should get a benefit in combat.Entertainers aren't fighters.
As it stands, as I mentioned above, Master Dancers do get a bonus to some defenses. This means that a Master Dancer / Master MTK would get more defense than just a MTK. However, we may not see it as much since doc buffs make soloing a Rancor such an easy thing to do. Maybe before the appearence of 4000+ HAM, the Master Dancer bonuses meant something.
Now, as to Dancers having an ABILITY to use during combat, this seems to be briefly touched on every so often. The ability to Dazzle and Mezmerize, etc. Is that the kind of thing you mean?