Dancer Archive
Thread: Read about the upcoming CU
kirah_ashlin
Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:06 pm
#14
Feeling pessimistic here . . . .
I forsee them deciding entertainer doesn't need any more skill points thanpilot . . . . . I mean after all, we don't actully DO anything, do we . . . . . 
DarkY0da
Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:39 pm
#15
The profession trees for Entertainers, Musicians, Dancers and Image Designers will be affected by the Combat Upgrade, and will likely need some profession tweaking because of the changes with wounds, stat migration and buffs to the mind. We will make adjustments to entertainers by creating some long lasting, minor buffs for combat professions.
Feel free to read into that... Yes it does mean what it says. Notice the word "creating"... wait for it... Ahh yes that lightbuld... YES that is what that means.
It appears clearly to me that our only tie into the game will be BF in some form. And we all know how BF really messed with people... Ohh wait it's pretty much ignored as it takes a crap load of it to really mess with you.
At least till they get around to "creating" some form of minor buffs.
Feel free to read into that... Yes it does mean what it says. Notice the word "creating"... wait for it... Ahh yes that lightbuld... YES that is what that means.
It appears clearly to me that our only tie into the game will be BF in some form. And we all know how BF really messed with people... Ohh wait it's pretty much ignored as it takes a crap load of it to really mess with you.
At least till they get around to "creating" some form of minor buffs.
ChiiTWINS
Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:43 pm
#16
Minor buffs.
Woohoo.
[sigh] I really shouldn't post at 4:30 am, but seriously. I'm not happy. One bit. Extremely. Frellin'. Ticked. Off.
No mind wounds = half our healing is now pointless. They acknowledge this, tell us we're getting "tweaked", and then what do they list but the stuff that's in TC right now. How is that "tweaking" having anything to do with this, for one. I think it's just totally pointless, irrelevant info, and is put in there to make us feel better because the rest of the post is devoted to combat.
Second, didn't they JUST input stat migrates for ID's to help them have a sense of need in the community? As a pat on the head for losing what makes them necessary, they get their timers removed again. Yee-haw. I don't think that's going to cut it.
Lastly, it looks like anyone who isn't either straight entertainer -- and after this, why in gods name would any but the most dedicated do that anymore?! -- or straight combat is totally frelled. As it is, the template I've been working on rebuilding is going to be trashed, because for some reason TK now requires 2h swordsman skill. Anyone want to explain how THAT makes sense? It doesn't. It's just where they threw a requirement at the TK's to take up SP -- just like smugglers require unarmed IV, but never use it. A waste of points.
I am very, very unhappy. This had better look a LOT better in action than it does on paper, or that sound you hear will be heads rolling, followed by thousands of "cancel subscription" clicks.
I wish you good luck, Devs. You're going to need it.
Drygo
Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:06 pm
#17
Groovymarlin wrote:
OK...now do you see why some of us weren't jumping for joy about the new dances and songs? See why some of us were already depressed?
I hate to say "I told you so," but...well that's exactly what I'm doing.
You can't blame people for being happy with the new dances when they were announced. Not knowing what the CURB people knew did not allow us to make an informed decision and reaction. We were all left scratching our heads wondering what was going on. And the anti-new dance posts, quite frankly, have absolutely nothing to do with the CURB and that negativity over the new dances had no place on the forums. Statements like, "these dances are cool, but you guys might be disappointed when you hear about the CURB" would have been more appropriate. Just my opinion...
Having said that, yes I absolutely do see why you guys were already depressed. They've effectively finally put the nail in the coffin. I know that if the CURB hits and we are exactly as the update makes it appear, I won't be here any longer.
I should start scouting out games. Are there any good games out there or coming out soon. We ents should mass migrate somewhere and start a guild/clan. 
Serratia
Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:18 pm
#18
DarkY0da wrote:
The profession trees for Entertainers, Musicians, Dancers and Image Designers will be affected by the Combat Upgrade, and will likely need some profession tweaking because of the changes with wounds, stat migration and buffs to the mind. We will make adjustments to entertainers by creating some long lasting, minor buffs for combat professions.
Feel free to read into that... Yes it does mean what it says. Notice the word "creating"... wait for it... Ahh yes that lightbuld... YES that is what that means.
It appears clearly to me that our only tie into the game will be BF in some form. And we all know how BF really messed with people... Ohh wait it's pretty much ignored as it takes a crap load of it to really mess with you.
At least till they get around to "creating" some form of minor buffs.
Not only that, but look carefully - we will"likely need some profession tweaking"... which seems to mean they haven't thought about itmuch at all, nor do theyhave a concrete plan, because they're not *entirely sure* that we will need (or that they want to bother making) any changes or upgrades after our profession has been gutted for the sake of the all-important combat system.
They may be right - who knows how many ents will be left if this revamp is as bad as it sounds for us. 
Anoewyn
Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:32 pm
#19
Thunderheart wrote:
Starx wrote:
Is Battle Fatigue going to remain in the game?
Battle Fatigue is still part of combat.
I am disgusted by this CU "upgrade". I usually stay my hand and walk away to calm down when I get angry - but it ain't happening this time. My angry Annie hat is on. I amfurious by this, not happy at all. As far as I'm concerned this CU and the removal of our healing/buffing abilities is a cop out to addressing the real problems and is just skirting around the AFK issue without actually tackling it. Sure, it will make the buffbots redundant but it is doing so at the expense of the rest of us. I've said it before and I'll say it again - there is no way I am going to pay a monthly fee to be an avatar in a glorifed chatroom.
I also don't think TH has a clear understanding of what it is he means either - first he says BF is "still part of combat" but then follows it up with this statement on page 25:
"Entertainer changes are outside the scope of the Combat Upgrade."
Whatthe....?This is a contradiction. So why were our "broken" but new dances a point of interest - they are supposed to be changes separate to the CU, why include them in the CU documentation. Furthermore, who else does he think deals with the BF? I disagree - these changes very much effect our positions and the positions of combat players, so no - we are not outside the scope of the Combat Upgrade. Sure, there will be tweaking - but we've been waiting on this "tweakage" for almost 2 yrs already on various other issues and my patience is running very thin.
I am a combat player as well, being a Master Riflewoman to support myself financially in an environment that does little to encourage the good will of people in the terms of tips and support for entertainers, and this upgrade is going to force me to have to choose between two styles of play that enjoy. I liked being an entertainer/combat hybrid - it allowed me to get away from the cantina, as well as get away from the hunt depending on mood I was in. It made me a valuable member of my PvP squad in my guild, as I was both an offensive player as well as a suport role. My roles complimented each other from an RP aspect, as I could "heal thy mind, and I can taketh away". But there is nothing to balance my choice if I choose the entertainer side - what will my function be? Sure, as an elite combat player I can do all kinds of stuff and get bonuses, but will we be considered elite entertainers? I think not. What do we get for following this path? At the moment, its nothing more than broken dances and broken tools, with the devs continually breaking the commands and features such as sync dancing as well, for good measure, and anything else that makes being creative and useful worthwhile.
**pauses**
**takes deep breath**
On the upside, I have my fingers crossed that these changes are not set in concrete - and hope that Dev Blair's progress journal will dispel any of these horrifying outcomes that these changes propose.
DarkY0da
Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:36 pm
#20
Anoewyn wrote:**takes deep breath**On the upside, I have my fingers crossed that these changes are not set in concrete - and hope that Dev Blair's progress journal will dispel any of these horrifying outcomes that these changes propose.
Don't count on it. Honestly. It's not changing. With the CU and the next expansion coming out in like what 40 something days(and no sandbox yet) only the most important game breaking for combat things will get changed.
Anoewyn
Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:43 pm
#21
Drygo wrote:
Groovymarlin wrote:
OK...now do you see why some of us weren't jumping for joy about the new dances and songs? See why some of us were already depressed?
I hate to say "I told you so," but...well that's exactly what I'm doing.
You can't blame people for being happy with the new dances when they were announced. Not knowing what the CURB people knew did not allow us to make an informed decision and reaction. We were all left scratching our heads wondering what was going on. And the anti-new dance posts, quite frankly, have absolutely nothing to do with the CURB and that negativity over the new dances had no place on the forums. Statements like, "these dances are cool, but you guys might be disappointed when you hear about the CURB" would have been more appropriate. Just my opinion...
Having said that, yes I absolutely do see why you guys were already depressed. They've effectively finally put the nail in the coffin. I know that if the CURB hits and we are exactly as the update makes it appear, I won't be here any longer.
I should start scouting out games. Are there any good games out there or coming out soon. We ents should mass migrate somewhere and start a guild/clan.
Well said -really not a fan of the "I told you so" game, especially when we are not all privledged with some of the more "inside info."
--Qilue-UCW--
Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:44 pm
#22
I dunno What I think about this...
Removing buffs.. means no more Mancer/Musician teams.. but is also means that we only need one Advanced profession to do what is needed of the profession... Yes.. BF is ignored alot.. untill it gets so high that you can't even heal yourself..
I dunno... Eu'liq furture is very.. bleak atm
ChaoKuang
Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:06 pm
#23
I LOVE it! From a combat and entertainer perspective, this is an absolutely WONDERFUL step! The buffbots will likely be GONE from the majority if we're lucky. If they keep battle fatigue, we'll be set. Most healing XP comes from battle fatigue as it is, people cap at 1k, and my friend hits 1k BF in one buff session now and then. With combat getting better, in my eyes, and likely more fun, people will be out getting buka BF and coming back for the healing. If anything, is we get more points, or they'll add something new, as they will revamp us after the CU.
I've said it before, and I'm not the only one who has, but enough with the fatalistic attitudes. How about we make a thread to brainstorm ideas what to do with our Wound tree?
I.E. a venue line. With each box, we can place different buildings..cantinas, gypsy/circus-like tents similar to but larger than the Merchant tents, etc, and let us place them anywhere, instead of just in player cities, you know?
Groovymarlin
Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:19 pm
#24
Anoewyn wrote:
Well said - really not a fan of the "I told you so" game, especially when we are not all privledged with some of the more "inside info."
I'm sorry it sounded like that. I really wasn't meaning to say "I told you so," but I realized that was exactly what I was doing. And it wasn't to say "Hey look at me, I had inside info," it was more to explain why I was not as excited about the new dances and stuff as some of the rest of us were. Why I felt that new dances weren't nearly enough to constitute a "revamp" for our profession.
I'm glad we're getting new dances, even though their drifty dance fix sorta really messed things up (hopefully only temporarily).
But the ease and apparent thoughtlessness with which they gut our professions, then say "entertainers are outside of the scope of the CU," well that dismays me. That to me is the writing on the wall. It really seems like our concerns were and are an afterthought.
It's not an entertainer-friendly change. My concerns specifically:
- Removal of mind buffs, our number one income earner and way to be "needed."
- Removal of mind wounds, probably the number two earner/need.
- Two whole trees in Dancer (technique and wound healing) made apparently useless, with only vague promises of a future change to "tweak" the trees, "oustide the scope of the CU."
- Discouragement of hybrid combat/non-combat templates through increased skill point requirements.
- Discouragement of hybrid combat/non-combat templates through grant of health pool increase for combat professions only.
Can't really think of a way to put a positive spin on any of that.
Mariki
Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:39 am
#25
Thats nothing, we are losing a action secondary and without stat migration, that means the other will be fixed. Anyone care to make a bet how long we will be able to play or dance after the change? I think that will make removal of the 15 second delay worthless too.
Bigboy83
Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:50 am
#26
Although its not that wonderful that yet we still wait, if you think about it, it is called the 'Combat' Upgrade. Not a general or every proff upgrade, but targeted to combat exclusivly.
I think what the Devs mean when they mention that this, that, or the other is "Outside the scope of the CU" they mean that exactly, this is a upgrad revamp only combat.
If you remember correctly that scheduled for after the CU are the Proff Revamps, my guess is that is where the entertainers will fall, along with the CH and the Rangers, smugglers, SL, etc...
I know I'm probably being a little to optimistic, espesially after being here since launch (This is new account, old account was given away as Present) and seeing the one blunderific update after another. But the recent updates over the last few months have acually been good!
All I'm saying is we shouldn't go nuts as of yet, notice Tiggs also mentions that we should wait for more info before we assume anything.