Dancer Archive
Thread: My own little protest...
Several of your ideas would only cut off your nose to spite your face. They would result in these players you despise having to be entertainers for longer, isn't it better to get them on their way and out of your hair instead? And denying teaching only really denies entertainers app xp, most any Holo user can pay the pittances that learning from an NPC requires.
I have not yet been tipped but don't want to be, nor do I need anyone else to heal me but I'm happy to provide aspiring medics with the medical xp. I would appreciate being watched, but people always watch the Masters who don't need the xp because they want to be healed as fast as possible, so that threat also rings a bit hollow.
I am nice and friendly to entertainers (and everyone else that isn't being a jerk) and, even though I'm only a tourist passing through your profession, it would be a so much happier environment for everyone if you were nice and friendly to me. But it is ultimately your choice.
Einhinder wrote:
I'd say to you that you had better learn how to get along with us or maybe think about changing your profession or even quitting altogether.Oskori~
Yes so im supposed to give up a profession ive had since the first week of the game because of people like you who as soon as you master it will give it up and move on to the next in your quest to be uber. you wanna macro cheat your way thru entertainer proffesions fine then give me a way to macro cheat thru combat proffesion in a week. and no i dont have to learn how to get along with you why should i macroers have been nothing but mean rude and inconsiderate to hte point of sending me very illicit tells when i refuse to teach them so im supposed to get along with you people i dont think so. you wanna macro do it in a back corner in a side aclove in your home or player city cantina dont go into the regular cantinas crowd the center of the place go to sleep or school or whatever it is you do leaving your shell there screaming for tips and heals and cheers.
I make no excuse for annoying AFK'ers. They annoy me as well. I also can't excuse people who are rude to you and to people that come into the cantina. But please, don't lump me in with them. There are always people like that
Why does it bother you that I Master professions for the sole reason of getting an FS slot? How does that hurt you? Are you better then I am because you didn't macro your way through your profession? I play this game the way I want to play it. You have no right to try to tell me I should play it your way anymore then I have the right to tell you how to play.
And please, don't call me a cheater. I do not cheat, and I do not exploit. You're thinking of someone else, not me. All I do is use the system the developers built into the game to achieve my goals. Furthermore, I try to enjoy myself on the way which apparently is more then you can say as yousound rather unhappy.
Again, I stress, if you are dissatisfied with this game and they way it's being played, you need to talk to the developers. Getting upset with people like me is not going to solve the problem and is entirely misdirected. I can't fix the problem and all I am doing is trying to open my FS slot using the game system and playing by the rules the developers have set down. Where's the harm in that? Who am I hurting?
I guess I haven't been doing it long enough to realize that people don't listen to the ones that are there. I agree that it sucks when people don't follow the rules. It isn't fair to those that have their group and take pride in their profession to have the tourists in the profession disrespect them. However, please don't clump all of us together in this stereotype. Many of us have worked very hard to get where we are, and even more are about as happy working on dancer as you are in having us working on it...lol. I have had fun with it over the last couple of days, and I am not having any bad experiences with the groups. Everyone seems quite pleasant and I enjoy the time with the groups.
I have spent much time in the cantinas getting buffed to help me through my holocron combat professions a bit faster. I have seen the spamming macros, and I agree with you, they are annoying. I wish people would realize that it is frustrating to see all the time. Even with 10 minute delays, it gets annoying after awhile. I completely empathize with every one of the dancers/entertainers that are upset by this. I had to put up with it for 10 minutes, you get it all day. One thing that may help is the /addignore option. This blocks out everything they say, not just tells (I have been forced to use it in the past).
Grouping is a whole different monster. I am a guild leader, and quite often a group leader on hunts. Whether it is a small or a large group, someone always wants to come in from the outside. Where as in entertaining it is an xp bonus, with combat it is a loss of xp with too many people. If I am going to welcome an outsider into the group, I clearly establish the rules of the group before ever inviting them. Then I ask if they have understood the rules. If they say yes, then they get the invite. If they break the rules (depending on the severity) they get warned, or just straight booted from the group. The group rules are established for everyone's peace of mind and safety.
From what I have seen, the cantina is busy, with lots going on, and a ton of messages burning through spatial. This does not help much with conveying the rules to new entertainers coming into the group. I am sure it is not an easy task. I would, however, wager to say that if people knew the rules, and if they were told to them, that you would find that things would improve. I didn't know them, though from reading the forums I figured it would be best if I just tried to make as little an impact on the group as possible, so I went about it my own way. There will always be people who will disagree, argue, or flatout ignore you. That being the case, I say send them packing and don't offer assistance. There is no need for that, nor should it be tolerated. For those that do not know, it is only fair to tell them. Most people come with the sole intention of grinding out the profession as quietly and painlessly as possible. If they know the rules, then it will just help them get through it easier.
Another thing that may happen, if people are treated well (deserving ones anyway), is that you may get a convert or two. I didn't have any desire for medic skills, but got Combat Medic for my first holocron, and I loved the profession. The same thing happened with Swordsman. I probably will not go back to Combat Medic when I am done with the FS Process, but I will go to Doctor (a side I have not yet explored). I didn't like the idea of Melee professions, then I found swordsman, and will not drop it because I like it. One never really knows what is going to happen until they do it. This opens up a world of possibilities, but I guarantee you, that if the person is treated poorly or shabbily, then they won't like the profession. It is a social profession. You aren't going to get killed doing it (unless you are overt or duel), you don't need to be tactically smart about running around dodging, using certain shots at certain times. You don't need to run all over creation to do things. It really boils down to the social part of the game. Talking to people, buffing if you have the skills, and providing the service of dancing there. If you use a macro, you don't even have to hit buttons. If the socialization is bad, then the profession becomes boring. If it is good, then the profession can be great fun.
I guess what all this gibberish I have written says. Give the people who are working on it a chance. If you give them a fair chance you may make a friend, and help someone enjoy a profession they thought they wouldn't like. Give them a fair shot to learn the rules, and teach them what they are. Chances are they are doing something they aren't too keen on doing, but with help, and pleasant people, they may at least get through it with some enjoyment and fun.
Thanks to all for hearing me out, and putting up with my wordy responses. Thanks to all the entertainers/musicians/dancers that have helped me out in the past with buffs, and now with training, groups, and kind words.
I appreciate your responses Mandinga, and I sincerely wish you the best during your visit to our profession. That said, I do have a couple of things to say...
"One thing that may help is the /addignore option. This blocks out everything they say, not just tells "
/addignore is fine and dandy, but 1-one shouldn't be forced to rely on /addignore just to play the game (seriously, I can't function unless I take about 3 minutes to figure out who are all the macrospammers and dump them into ignore. Once you do that, the cantina chat is actually managable, ditto with the starport areas) 2-addignore for me doesn't addignore the same spammer for everyone who walks in; people coming in are more likely to heal ASAP and leave just to get away from all the spammers. 3-addignore doesn't clear the person's toon out of the way. I actually *care* what my dancing looks like. It's awfully difficult to put on what I feel is a good show when AFK people are drifting their way through my toon or my toon's dance steps.
As far as acquainting people with the rules of courtesy, I actually did take the time about a month ago to email some of the AFK people to politely ask them to move their toons over to the side while they were AFK so the prime real estate was available for people at keys to put on shows. All but one said, 'No'.
Anyway, I'm not sure I had a point for replying other than to wish you well in the profession while you're hear, and perhaps to let you know that some of your suggestions have already been tried.
I figured they probably had been tried, and I am aware that the /addignore feature isn't a complete solution, but at least it does block out their annoying macro speeches. It isn't a fix all, and I do sympathize. I also agree that there will be people who ignore the "Unwritten Rules." There are always people like that, and again I sympathize. People like that are... well I can't say it here, and they deserve to be beaten for it. They make it harder on those of us that are trying to move through the profession causing as little disruption as possible. I meet them on a daily basis, and they plague every profession in the game. It isn't the AFK Macroing, but the other things that they do. People consistently abuse rules, written or unwritten no matter what profession, and make it harder on the rest of the people in that profession. Sadly the cantina is a small enclosed space which we are all forced to share, and if we want xp we must all be there all the time (well almost). This is one of the things where the offenders have nobody to blame but themselves. Holocrons are not to blame for bad attitudes and rude behavior. The Devs are not to blame for putting a system that requires the master of professions. That does not condone the behavior either. A person is responsible for their own actions, and even if they choose to follow the path of the Jedi, they do not need to be <censored> about it.
Thank you for the well wishes, and again for the help. I am meeting more and more people daily, and I must say that you have infinite patience in dealing with a lot of the people that come into the cantinas. Patrons and other Entertainers alike. Best of luck to you all, and please know that there are at least a few of us that feel your pain, and try to go along making as small an impact as possible.
To those AFK Macro entertainers out there that are causing this trouble (in the profession or just passing through). Please stop. It is nothing shy of griefing, just in a different kind of way. If you are out of the way, the xp still comes in. If you keep your mouth shut you will still get heals. I have been in a back corner out of the way of everyone, got back to my computer and had a medic camping me for xp simply because he didn't have to compete with all the other medics. If you are AFK Macroing, don't ask for, or expect tips. If you get some consider yourself lucky. As for all the 80's and 90's pop songs. It is funny the first time you do it, but after about 3 times, it is just plain stupid. This is all from one AFK Macro Entertainer (well part time AFK, part time ATK)to the rest of the like that read this.
My first career in SWG was entertainer. I've been a Master Dancer for quite awhile now. Holo-dancers, huh... Honestly they can be a minor annoyance to me, but it comes down to yourself and how you play the game. I am not here to tell anyone else how to play and enjoy SWG. I play my way, you play yours.
Personally, I feel it's my responsibility to entertain and heal players seeking my aid. In all my time as a dancer, I have found that the non-afk dancers get far more tips and appreciation than holo-dancers. I can walk into the Coronet cantina, packed with at least 20 holo-dancers and one or two "real" entertainers and I will still walk out of there in an hour with a nice chunk of change.
Why? I don't know, but I do know that I always have a good time when I dance for the public. I greet every person that steps in the door, I advertise mind buffs for folks, Iuse my flourishes, my bag full of costumes and props, my light effects, to draw attention to myself. When there are other entertainers actually entertaining, we've gotten together and put on some really great shows for folks. People love a good line dance! I chat with people, I keep track of every tip I receive and personally thank them all. Inevitably many of the biggesttips are from the silent ones who just appreciate the fact that I am at my keyboard. I never ask or suggest tipping, as I think that is crude, though many might disagree with me, it's just not my style and never been necessary. Whenever I am asked what I charge for a mindbuff, it is always "Whatever you wish to give". I travel to remote cantinas for those poor souls coming in from the tough hunts.
My view on the dancing profession is one of service to the customer, never make them feel like they have to pay for your work. Make them WANT to pay for your work. If you do that well, who cares about the holo-dancer with his /shout macro "Please help me get xp!" going. If they are in the middle of the room and in your way, make your own space. People will come to you if you're good. The people that don't come to you, wouldn't anyway, no big loss.
I apologize for the rambling, but it's up to us entertainers to take a crappy dev decision and get past it. We make our own worth and it's silly to blame people doing their own thing. The people that appreciate entertainers, will always appreciate us over the holo-dancers. Those that never tipped anyway, will watch the afker's... what are we really losing out on, if we're any good at what we do?
Oonna
TCON Master Dancer, Master BioEngineer
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