Dancer Archive
Thread: AFKs are a major issue....HOW?
NeoTheHutt wrote:
if you dont care. go away. now. its funny how you put words in peoples mouths btw
Similar to "proving" a point by posting:
exactly, NOTHING is wrong
We know that you read the forums and have dismissed this already. I suppose I'm doing the evil thing and feeding the troll, but I'm a sucker that way.
Incidentally, I would never claim that AFKing is a major problem. It is an issue, sure. My biggest complaint is how easy Endor is with heal bots. Throw in some free doctors and smugglers, and you need even less skill to do the advanced planets.
As far as entertainers taking up spots, that's an issue with human nature. People are, in general, stupid, lazy, or inconsiderate. Sometimes all three. These personality traits show up whether AFK or ATK, sadly. If a group leader is so selfish that he won't boot AFKers because it could happen to him, then you just have to do your own thing. An AFKer can never compete with a real entertainer, even if he loops spam.
And I never use the terms, "spammers" and "AFKer" interchangably. Some people AFK quietly. Some ATKers are jerks. Quick anecdote: I passed through Theed and heard some spam at the starport (of course). One person was offering to teach Marksman 4-4-4-4. In a sudden moment of compassion, I sent him a /tell with an offer to give him all the AP he needs so that he can stop spamming the area. I did not get a reply, but I saw him spam again. And this was the really annoying spam where he says the same thing three times in a row *growl*. I sent him a /tell asking that if he's going to ignore people, then at least stop spamming. That one he saw. He was belligerent and insulting. He missed my initial /tell because...can you guess why? Because all the spam scrolled it off the screen. I explained that if other people's spam inconvenienced him, then his spam was hazardous for others. He didn't care. He didn't want AP from a snob like me anyway *chuckle* and was going to keep on spamming for training, even though he could have eliminated that need within 2 minutes.
Is AFKing a problem? Sure, but it's not the system that is the problem. It's the players. And if AFKing was prevented somehow, the jerks would continue to be jerks.
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90% of the people who have a problem with it simply resent the months they spent doing something that takes AFK people a couple weeks. Your feelings do not make it a problem - life isn't always fair, so live with your choices. -
They don't make it harder to get healing experience or to gain skill - just group with them and you're all set. -
The only thing they're really able to do is heal and gain XP. Since anyone with 15 spare points, 100 credits, and a slitherhorn can heal, this is an amazingly unimportant issue. -
They don't reduce the tips (for healing)you're getting as an ATK entertainer - the people who don't tip you because an AFK person is there are the people who aren't going to tip you for healing anyway. Those who tip you for being ATK were going to tip you anyway. Nothing is changed by having an AFK entertainer there. -
The only player that they really hurt is themselves. They are missing out on all of the great stuff that makes being an entertainer fun, and when they gain the Master title they're going to find themselves rather alone and unrespected compared to other, less-skilledentertainers who spent that time interacting with people.
The only thing I'd change isthe buff system. It's obvious that buffing is meant to be an activity that should involve interaction and should result in entertainers being in-demand, because it's a skill that isn't possible for the lowly beginner, like healing is, and because it involves actual input from both parties. It shouldn't be possible to receive a buff from an AFK entertainer.
Just to add something else, I think that most of the resentment for AFK entertainers is a matter of perception and not reality. To illustrate:
A few days ago I spoke to a new entertainer about how to buff. We got talking about what other things you can do as an entertainer to really stand out. I suggested he talk to everyone who comes in, take a real interest in each person and what they want to talk about. Be as friendly as possible. His response? "Yeah, but those AFK people make it really hard." Huh?
So I asked him, "What about them being AFK affects you in any way? They don't keep you from talking to people."
him: "They just shouldn't be AFK."
me: "Why is that? What do they hurt?"
him: "I can't talk to people with all that spam in the room"
me: "Okay yeah, that's a problem, but that's what those peopleare doing, not their characters. Ask them to stop. Plenty of people macro worthless spam without being AFK too, so that problem has nothing to do with them being AFK entertainers."
him: "No one wants to pay attention to me with all those AFK people there."
me: "You and I both know that's not true. You say someone's name, they pay attention. Don't blame your problems and the challenges of the game on someone else."
him: "Yeah, I guess you're right."
Because we've done this way too many times already and anyone who really wants to can find the latest flame thread on AFKing and get all the information, reasons and arguments they want.
Really, there's nothing to be gained by throwing fuel on the fire at this point. From what I've witnessed, all that results is a flame war, harsh words, hard feelings and in the end noone will have changed their stance on things.
If you insist on having the argument, I of course cannot stop you, but I certainly will not deliberately fuel it by rising to the bait offered by the original poster, and I'm sure a lot of others here feel the same way. That is why the question likely goes unanswered.
Bihlbo wrote:
Is AFKing a problem? Sure, but it's not the system that is the problem. It's the players. And if AFKing was prevented somehow, the jerks would continue to be jerks.
Why AFK entertaining isn't a problem
90% of the people who have a problem with it simply resent the months they spent doing something that takes AFK people a couple weeks. Your feelings do not make it a problem - life isn't always fair, so live with your choices. I'm not the one that has a problem with it. Its the PATRONS that have a problem with it, because often times they have no choice but to watch an entertainer do their craft poorly. Don't believe me? Check the galaxy boards instead of this one, because there is where the patrons are.
They don't make it harder to get healing experience or to gain skill - just group with them and you're all set. That may have been true at one time, but now we have as many as FOUR 20 person groups all macroing at the same time. And in order to get the XP flowing, they have to resort to stupid things like buying mind diseases, or paying the very customers who pay me on a daily basis. They have to pay people because nobody in their right minds would watch or listen to them, because they all play a different song, or look like a fool.
The only thing they're really able to do is heal and gain XP. Since anyone with 15 spare points, 100 credits, and a slitherhorn can heal, this is an amazingly unimportant issue. A dancer with Basic 2 and a TON of attentiveness, humor, and developed personality can draw the attention away from an AFK Master ANYDAY. I did it all the time in Tyrena and Coronet. Why? Because I made the patrons WANT to look at me. Its my job to make them look at me. The difference is this: The live player needs credits or some incentive to be there. The AFKer does not.
They don't reduce the tips (for healing)you're getting as an ATK entertainer - the people who don't tip you because an AFK person is there are the people who aren't going to tip you for healing anyway. Those who tip you for being ATK were going to tip you anyway. Nothing is changed by having an AFK entertainer there. Problem is this: Entertainment used to have to be subsidized by the player base. That is to say, the witty ones, fun ones, and best conversationalists got tips from the player base, so they'd have an incentive to stay where they were at instead of going out on missions. After all, if the need was to be filled, why not get the most respectful, enjoyable ones you could? If the demand for BF and mind wound service needed to be filled, there would be entertainers ready to supply it...for a price. Now, there is an endless 24/7 supply of entertainment resources on the servers who will work whether you give them an incentive to do it or not, which drives the demand for entertainment resources into nothingness. A free lunch is the best lunch, because while it may taste like garbage, it is infinately preferable to one of better quality. Thankfully for me, however, there are still a few "connesseurs" who pay me well for what I do. New entertainers who are still learning their trade may not be so lucky, because unlike AFKers, they need tips to pay their maitenance pools.
The only player that they really hurt is themselves. They are missing out on all of the great stuff that makes being an entertainer fun, and when they gain the Master title they're going to find themselves rather alone and unrespected compared to other, less-skilledentertainers who spent that time interacting with people. That's true, if only players AFKed. Allow Multiple Instances=1, the command that allows two accounts to play at the same time is more of a threat than holocrons ever were. I can deal with the hologrinders. What gives us problems are unattended alts. or "mules" who are bought and paid for by a primary character or a PA for 49.95 and 15.00 a month, who give the person, PA, or city 10 extra lots, and a character attached. You see, entertainment professions are the only ones that can do everything in the game mechanics sense that a live player can do, and so the character usually becomes an entertainer that macros 24/7 in the PA's city cantina as a "tourist trap." However, live players want to see Jabba. Live players want credits. Live players want to have fun. The person with two accounts can do all of these things, PLUS have a mule operating within the game environment 24/7 for no pay. If someone has no incentive to explore content, no physical needs, and no real need for "play value," I can hardly compete. Alt. mules simply do not have the constraints live players do.
The only thing I'd change isthe buff system. It's obvious that buffing is meant to be an activity that should involve interaction and should result in entertainers being in-demand, because it's a skill that isn't possible for the lowly beginner, like healing is, and because it involves actual input from both parties. It shouldn't be possible to receive a buff from an AFK entertainer.
Someone like me will be here whether you give AFKers the buff or not. In fact, it really doesn't change the requirements of the profession at all. People who play this profession will always have to be attentive to their patrons, understand their tools, and be witty, hospitable and fun. What is needed is less of an emphasis on tweaking the mechanics, and more effort to be better than the AFKer in terms of what a live player does best: be spontaneous and attentive.
AFKers aren't the problem. The problem is most ATK entertainers just can't entertain anybody and you have to put up with the high and mighty attitude that seems to run rampant in the entertainer professions.This shouldn't be a suprise as the entertainment professions seem to be the choice of roleplayers, who just happen to be the reigning queens of holier-than-thou attitudes.
kirah_ashlin wrote:
If you dislike us so much then why do you bother to post in our forums? Do youself and all of us a favor and stop. I know that this will be my last post to you. Further discussion with someone who has this kind of attitude is pointless.
Probably just as pointless as you telling me what to do.
>The only player that they really hurt is themselves.
This is a massive multiplayer online roleplaying game. If their actions would really only affect themselves, the game design crew failed. This game was designed so that one persons action are affecting everyone else. It wouldn't be much fun otherwise.
Likewise, people using aimbots are only hurting themselves really. The miss the fun of a challenge. No other people are harmed, right ?
They don't understand. There are people would wear a pink tutu with a greenskinned wookie if it made them 5% more powerful. Those people do not understand how having an afk bot spamming in spatial and messing up the dancefloor ruins our experience, since game mechanics are not affected.
I for one will never dance in theed/coronet, and would prefer to never see any antisocial powergamer in my home cantina again. Let me roleplay, and let them grind themselves silly.