Dancer Archive
Thread: Disappointing
Ingrata
Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:59 pm
#14
Drygo wrote:
I do applaud, however, those people who are still able to stay in character as far as buffing is concerned...as long as it's actually in character as opposed to just being an ass.
That would be the key point.
Most of the Rebels I run into are very understanding of my role in the GCW. There are a few who are exceptionally rude about it, but oh well.
The bigger problem I see with these issues is the fact that if one Doctor says he/she wont buffme because I'm an opposing faction, would I then go post on the doctor forum that this is a problem that needs to be rectified? I doubt that would happen.Why do we lump all entertainers into one group of "you all hate combat classes" based on the interaction that have been had with a limited number of entertainers?
Padtai
Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:16 pm
#15
Just a little FYI for a bit of perspective...
Docs if neutral can't heal ANY overts.
Docs if covert can't heal their own side without a tef, and can't heal Overts of the other faction.
I just find it odd that people expect entertainers who are neutral or covert of the opposite faction to heal them (though of course, that is what the game allows, all without tef's too). I suppose it is sort of fun in a way to be able to influence the outcome of an encounter between an overt of one faction and the other without taking a TEF, but it is also sort of unfair. Not to say this is the reason these people declined to help you, but it could have been and they should have had the right to say that in my opinion
Of course, you're right that it contributes to the perception that fighters will need bots if live entertainers deny them.Doesn't matter the reason,be it rudeness, lack of payment, politics, an entertainer creates a perception of a need for buffbots ina player's mind the moment that entertainer denies service to that player. Look at your own words that you were going to "donate" and be "gracious" by helping out live entertainers when you needed to get healed. And you even play an entertainer? How much stronger is that sense of entitlement for someone who doesn't? You see most players patronize entertainers. Its a funny word though,that word can mean to simply use someone's services, but it can also meanto sort of "humor" someone and somewhat disrespect that person. I use it in both ways to describe how most people treat entertainers.They don't see the interaction as mutually beneficial and the player as equal in what they bring to the interaction. Because of that,they feel the entertainer has absolutely no right to say no for any reason. That's really unfair and that is what dissapoints me about the game.
Ingrata
Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:48 pm
#16
TheSillyOne wrote:
Ok let me reiterate. I did NOT want a buff.
I understood that you did NOT want a buff... but I felt to completely explain my personal feelings, I would give a complete answer. I do not buff nor do I heal overt Rebels.
I decided to only answer the last two questions you asked, as I do not have a cantina nor do I belong to a player city. But each city governs itself, and perhaps it is a server specific problem.
3. Do you feel that if a person is overt they are obviously not capable of role play or even fair play?
I believe everyone is capable of fair play, overt or not. Some choose to not play fair. If you are RP'ing an Overt Rebel you should avoid anyone who is not a Rebel faction player.. that would be Rp'ing.
I am confident that you are capable of fair play, but I would not compromise my RP'ing if you walked into the cantina I was in as an Overt Rebel, regardless of the reason.
4. Do you feel that GCW has a place in the role play community that entertainers are often a huge part of?
The entertainers are a part of the GCW because we live in the same world everyone else lives in.
My entertainer is also a Teras Kasi Master and Master Brawler. I do participate in the GCW as both a healer and a combatant.
We, as entertainers,are not all the same, as each character is played by a different person. I respect the rights of other entertainers to decide for themselves what their policies are.
My views do not reflect the views of every other entertainer in the galaxy.
The fact that you question our importance to the GCW is upsetting, because I have as much a right to RP as anyone else. Whether I spend my day dancing in the cantina or on the killing fields.
Ingrata
Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:49 am
#17
TheSillyOne wrote: wounds was
Yesterday I had 1000 bf 700 mind overt, armed and armored. On my server if you are overt you don't go anywhere unarmored and unarmed. I spent an hour looking for a live dancer who might need to a few differenthealing xp. I went cities and the places where I did find dancers would not alow me in. I was not and woufighting in any of the cities where I went to try to be healed ld have refrained from fighting unless attacked. I was not alowed in the player city cantinas and after quite some time I gave it up and went to my guild's buff bot. I'm appauled that no one could figure out how to RP helping me. The biggest slap in the face was that the first place I went was apparently the hometown of a friend of mine whom I've known since release.
This might belong in the Starsider forums and it might be a Starsider problem but I'd really like some discussion on why Rp'ers would purposefully shun someone who is trying to RP with them simply because they participate in the GCW. All the time we chastise folks for using buff bots and afk'ers but after running into SEVERAL live dancers I couldn't find anyone willing to heal me. I'd like to suggest that entertainers in general take a look at thier policies and see if maybe we aren't creating the market for the bots by our rather sour attitude towards fighters.
I understand why fighters are bitter towards entertainers. They resent thier need for us. Is the opposite also true?
I am Imperial Master Dancer.
I do not buff Rebel.
I do not heal overt Rebels. I /deny service them when they walk in the door.
As an Imperial I cannot RP healing the opposite faction.
Would it have been better if those Imperial dancers killed you, because that is what I would have done.
Have you complained that a doctor wouldn't buff you or heal you because you are an overt Rebel?
It is each person's discretion who they will and will not help. I am a loyal Imperial. I will not help the opposing faction.
That doesn't mean that there is something wrong with the entertainer profession.
If you are role playing, why would you go to Imperials for help? You should be in hiding, and only having dealing with other Rebels.
TheSillyOne
Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:58 am
#18
thanks Fuscia
Again, this is not a factional issue. The only reason I mentioned that I was overt is because it is the reason I could not remove my armor which is why I could not get healed. There are parts of the game mechanics that unfortunately have no work around at the moment and an overt player would be unwise to remove his/her armor and weapon as it does take a considerable amount of time to replace it.
I'm also not suggesting that I was entitled to healing. However, it does in fact help a dancer who is still skilling for me (and my friend) to "donate" the total of 2k bf and roughly 1400 mind wounds to someone other than a master dancer. I use this term because the smart thing to do is find a master and get healed up as quickly as possible. The nice thing to do is help out someone who stillneeds xp.
Again the city was apparently neutral. They did not object to my political alignment but the cantina's policy (actually several cantina's policy) was to not alow armor and weapons. Had I been unarmored and without any kind of weapon equiped I would have been given 5 star treatment in every place I visited, I'm sure.
I was not beligerant aboutwearing my armornor was I insisting onbeing healed, I simply informed them that it was not possible for me to comply with the rules of thier cantina. I thanked them for their time and moved on to the next place. I just really had no idea how hard it is for a fighter to be recieved in the RP community and thought that it was worth some discussion. Particularly when there is so much conversation going on about afk entertainers "stealing" our buisness. They can't steal it if we are giving it away.
This is not the first time I've been shuned ( bymembers of my own faction, neutrals or members of the oposite faction)within the RP community for being overt but it's the first time that it has been directly related to the dance proffession.
LyteFoot
Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:43 am
#19
I find it surprising that a cantina will disallow armored and armed players. I see players who don't travel any other way. I know there are a lot of players who never remove their composite because they can't get it back on until they find a doctor to buff them. I've often run through towns when hunting and shopped, looked around, and visited the cantina. If I was required to constantly remove my ubese armor just to walk into a cantina I certainly would never go in, especially since I've rarely encountered a player cantina on Corbantis that was populated.
So I have to agree, this is absurd. The policy of making a player remove their armor to enter a player cantina and use its services will drive the combat players away. Not just GCW but PvE as well. Its often difficult for a player to remove and reequip and when it isn't its just plain annoying. It isn't like they couldn't pull a weapon from inventory once inside and be a smuck anyway, this policy isn't preventing anything just making it annoying for the majority who would behave to begin with.
Is it possible to set a cantina's permissions settings to stop a armed person from entering? If not was it just the people telling you to leave?
Ikewe
Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:20 am
#20
We have a few merchant cities on my server that have a No PvP policy but I don't think any have gone to the extreme of requiring players to remove armor and store their weapons. From your posting it sounds like it wasn't a matter of whether you were Overtbut that you were armed. Is that the case? If so then the Cantina's should include that in their signage and make it known so that you avoid wasting time traveling around and risk getting attacked in the process.
As to the other thread that pulled off here...
From a Role Play standpoint I am never entertaining while Overt thus as a Covert rebel I heal and buff any who ask. Otherwise I am revealing my covert status and that's not a very good way to spy 
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
OokoAjo
Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:12 am
#21
I think it's noble of you to have wanted to give that healing xp to someone, rather than just the nearest AFK macrotainer
I'm on Starsider, and I've no problems healing or buffing or entertaining people who are buffed, overt, armored, armed, and whatever else. The name of this game is armor and weapons and (it should be) the GCW.
I'm neutral, but I lean towards aiding the Rebel Alliance.
My city is on Lok, but whenever you see me come online, by all means send me a /tell and I will help you, regardless of the circumstances.
It's always been my opinion that Rebel or Imperial, overt or covert, everyone needs entertaining. Even the Emperor let out a good laugh here and there.
Maybe the people misunderstood the idea of TEF'ing? Maybe they thought they'd be TEF'd if they helped you? I don't know. I understand, when having a FORMAL event, to not allow armor, weapons, or overt individuals into the cantina. That's when you're hosting something, though - not just day to day existence. People are going to be fighting, and they're going to be armoed and armed, and they'll need healing. That's just how it goes.
I could see if you were of an opposite faction.
I'm thinking something is seriously wrong with the Rebel community on Starsider - nowhere NEAR the sense of comraderie we should have. The Imperials seem to stick together. I don't understand why a lot of Rebels aren't more courteous to fellow Rebels.
Bottom line: Send me a /tell if I'm on. I don't care what faction you are. Heh. The people who turned you down are lame.
Doriana
Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:51 am
#22
Sounds to me like an overzealous interpretation of "we don't allow PVP here," is all. You said yourself that some people wlll fight in a city regardless of the rules -- so sometimes a harsh policy of no overts at all is the only solution, and innocent people get hurt in the process.
I do think they should have healed you though.
I agree with most people here in that it's always been my policy in public that if an overt rebel comes to me for heals I send a /tell warning of any overt Imps I've been around recently and if an overt Imp comes for heals I change out of my healing bonus clothing, cut down on flourishes and ask in guild if anyone would like to come have fun. I never refuse healing any overts and only refuse buffs to opposite faction. I gave up trying to hide my faction a long time ago. The guild tags coupled with the badges make it impossible.
But what Drygo has said is making me think -- if an overt Imp came up to me tonight in a public cantina and asked for a mind buff from me obviously in preference to a bot.. would I say no? CAN I say no? I honestly don't know what I would do, not being in that situation yet.
But isn't the right to say "No" and have it mean something one of the things we're fighting for in this ATK vs. AFK battle? If I say no right now, it doesn't mean squat. If I /denyservice it likewise doesn't mean squat. There's a bot or two or ten right next to me, who aren't there to /denyservice, big deal for Mr. Joe Jerk who just harrassed me. So while I sometimes disagree with people on their reasons for saying no, I will never stop fighting for the right to say it and for it to mean something.
I do think they should have healed you though.
I agree with most people here in that it's always been my policy in public that if an overt rebel comes to me for heals I send a /tell warning of any overt Imps I've been around recently and if an overt Imp comes for heals I change out of my healing bonus clothing, cut down on flourishes and ask in guild if anyone would like to come have fun. I never refuse healing any overts and only refuse buffs to opposite faction. I gave up trying to hide my faction a long time ago. The guild tags coupled with the badges make it impossible.
But what Drygo has said is making me think -- if an overt Imp came up to me tonight in a public cantina and asked for a mind buff from me obviously in preference to a bot.. would I say no? CAN I say no? I honestly don't know what I would do, not being in that situation yet.
But isn't the right to say "No" and have it mean something one of the things we're fighting for in this ATK vs. AFK battle? If I say no right now, it doesn't mean squat. If I /denyservice it likewise doesn't mean squat. There's a bot or two or ten right next to me, who aren't there to /denyservice, big deal for Mr. Joe Jerk who just harrassed me. So while I sometimes disagree with people on their reasons for saying no, I will never stop fighting for the right to say it and for it to mean something.
FuschiaD
Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:11 pm
#23
Silly, for what it's worth, I think this is kind of lame, and that's coming from another Imperial master dancer who also will not buff or heal overt Rebels. The fact that you were kind enough to want to donate the potential healing xp to a player in need should have made the neutral/Rebel dancers and musicians think twice.
TheSillyOne
Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:00 pm
#24
Doriana wrote:
But isn't the right to say "No" and have it mean something one of the things we're fighting for in this ATK vs. AFK battle? If I say no right now, it doesn't mean squat. If I /denyservice it likewise doesn't mean squat. There's a bot or two or ten right next to me, who aren't there to /denyservice, big deal for Mr. Joe Jerk who just harrassed me. So while I sometimes disagree with people on their reasons for saying no, I will never stop fighting for the right to say it and for it to mean something.
I couldn't agree with you more. The folks who wouldn't alow me in thier cantina were WELL within thier rights and I respect that. It is thier policy to disallow buffed and armored patrons and I understand the RP value of maintaining an a certain atmosphere. It just seems to me that with a bit of creativity a compromise could have been reached and a solution created that would not have interfered with thier RP. Anyway, it's looking more and more like this situation is Starsider specific or maybe I just had an unlucky evening. I just really hate to see live entertainers alienating combatants in this manner because it only serves to further tarnish how they view our proffession.
As for the other issue that has arrisen, denyinga buff to an overt (or well known member) of the opposite faction is absolutely justified. I used to tell folks "you're overt, I can't buff you" and most folks know so little about our proff that they just make the assumption it works the same as a doc buff. I only rarely had to explain that it was because I had a moral objection toassisting in the death of my friends.
SumemerNights
Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:38 pm
#25
I entertain on Starsider and dont really care if your overt or not sence I dont pick sides. I do have 1 rule though, and it bugs me to no end for some reason. PUT YOUR PANTS ON PLEASE!
Drygo
Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:11 pm
#26
TheSillyOne wrote:
1. Is it your policy in your city or your cantina to disallow someone if they are armed and armored?
2. Do you feel there is an acceptable compromise that could be made in a situation where someone obviously needs healed or helped in some mannor and a no weapons no armor policy would inhibit them from recieving said healing?
3. Do you feel that if a person is overt they are obviously not capable of role play or even fair play?
4. Do you feel that GCW has a place in the role play community that entertainers are often a huge part of?
Sorry I misinterpreted your question. Yes, I do tend to get carried away with the buffbot issue. 
So, to answer your questions:
1. I don't think so. Oddly enough, for being in a guild with a decent amount of entertainers, we don't really hang out in our Cantina much. We probably should, but we don't, except maybe once a week. So, to be honest, I'm not aware of any policy that prohibits overtness, armor or weapons. As for the overt issue, specifically, though, our guild/city is a little bit off from the norm. Even though the vast majority of us are rebels, we RP that we're a nice, peaceful, law abiding imperial citizenry, sort of an undercover sort of thing. So, I have a feeling that any overt, imp or rebel would not be turned away for healing. Imperials because we "pretend" we're imperial, and rebels because we really are rebel. heh
2. I do. But, then again, it hasn't ever crossed my mind to deny healing to anyone, regardless of faction or overt status.
3. I feel that overtness is a very valid form of roleplay. I think too many people like to separate people into groups, if you're an RP'er, you're not hard core combat. If you're a combat player, you can't RP. I don't believe that at all. In fact, to me, combat *is* a form of RP. And I have known quite a few people who are more than capable of doing both. In fact, one of the more exciting types of roleplay involves overt characters of the opposite faction, especially in storm trooper armor, and the whispering that goes on behind the scenes when one enters. I mean, really, even in a nice little rebel town, how many rebels would deny the basics of healing for fear of being discovered? For fear of attack after reinforcements are called. How many doctors, rebel or imperial, are willing to forego the basic tenents of being a doctor? To heal, to save lives. Buffing is an enhancement and different. Healing is basic. It would be hard for me to RP a healer of any variety, entertainer or doctor, who will *not* heal somebody. I won't help them kill my friends, but I'm not going to sit back and watch them die when they're alone and are in need of assistance.
4. Absolutely. See #3.
But, beyond all this...the Cantinas are swanky slinky little places. Unless you're having a formal night or a wedding or something, IMO, I'd *expect* to see people come in with armor and weapons. It just wouldn't feel like a Cantina without it.
Message Edited by Drygo on 10-05-2004 07:12 PM