Dancer Archive
Thread: A compromise?
LuucEarthStroller
Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:22 am
#14
Dreamland wrote:
Untill you adress the underlying issue being that you can be just as effective a healing entertainer with zero effort as you can be with a great deal of effort, the problem is not adressed.
Message Edited by Dreamland on 10-01-2004 10:00 PM
The thing here Dreamland is i did concede that the whole underlying problem is not addressed. The entertainment proffesions as a whole with the exception of ID can be mastered afk quite easily.
I agree with you wholly that this reduced these professions to 2nd class and takes alot of respect away from the people like me and others that did it all ATK and worked through it all live.
But this is a way to turn around the tables and put things at least in a better perspective. Move the economy in the proper direction as it pertains to entertainers.
Relegate the AFK bots to the back ground.
The root of the problem needs to be fixed for sure. But in the meantime something as this would definately be making headway in that battle and could be used as a first step to turn things in the proper direction.
Its not the end all Its an Interim quick solution to an ongoing battle.
The key here is SOE has to do something about the AFK situation and put in rules and or different coding to combat it and then MAKE a STAND and ENFORCE it.
These are things that are going to take them time. And i do have faith that even though not alot of information is coming forth about it, something is being worked on in this regards. Im just offering my opinion on a way to start down the right path.
LuucEarthStroller
Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:15 am
#15
Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
Ok let be se if I get what is suggested here right... There are not enough live entertainers, so you suggest taking away something from live entertainers and giving it to players that do not play the game?
Just think about it, buffs is only a "viable income" for a 4000 dancer or musician, before that it is not good enough. This would remove any possible income and any possible fun, for new entertainers in training. So the only new entertainers that would be around would be the AFK ones, this would mean that fewer new live master musicians came around while the old ones left the game. Even more so, the lack of anyone to interact with would dive some of the existing master away from public availability.
If all that entertainers want is credit, it could be solved by increasing the payout of entertainer mission twenty fold. Even at 4000 cr per mission we would have far from the income positional of the combatants, but we would have one.
This is the wrong way around the problem. If a certain play style is not popular enough, then it should be given more contend, more tools and more thing to do, so that more players will play it.
How in anyway is this taking away from the new player? In fact the only thing that would change is that buffs would have to be an active thing and would work passivly
Everything else stays the same.
Its not that a certain play style isnt popular enough. The issue my proposal is dealing with is the issue that AFK buffbots are the "pinnacle" of the profession, in that they are sought out first and often to the downright ignoring of live entertainers.
Why are they sought? Well first and foremost most of them have better buffs! Why? Because they can buff people 23/7 without input. Even if 10% of the customers actually pay them they make far more money than live entertainers due to shear volume. This enables them to spend ridiculous amounts of money to buy up skill tapes to cap their clothing added bonuses.
When I first started in the entertainer business and i was buffing the same people on a daily basis i never charged anyone for a buff. I told them to tip me what they thought it was worth. I was making upwards of 300k-400k a day easily. Try that live now.
LuucEarthStroller
Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:18 am
#16
LuucEarthStroller wrote:
... change is that buffs would have to be an active thing and would NOTwork passivly
Everything else stays the same.
...
Sorry for confusion
Electro
Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:27 am
#17
Fine by me. But this won't stopbots, it will just require them to be subscription services. (There are already bots like this, they are just rarer than the typical invite bot.)
PoetDancer
Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:58 am
#18
You know, after seeing this thread and others, I have to ask myself this question:
When did we all of the sudden start thinking of non-players as having just as much right to do player things as players?
Because I do not appreciate having non-players do things that are reserved for players. Never have. And just because there is a desire for something doesn't mean that all of the sudden we have to start defining non-play as play in order to get it. I'd like to reserve game functions for players. I think we all do.
Things are more convenient today than at launch:more shuttle access, greater transportation speed, half the wait at shuttleports. Yet the playerbase is still not satisfied at the level of convenience in this game, and are willing to do whatever it takes to get it, even if it turns the game into a boring, routinized one with no challenge.
Because there is a whole other class out there that has ONLY BF and mind wound healing to do: the entertainment classes. Why is it alright to legitimize unattendence in their sphere, and reserve our sphere for play?
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 10-02-2004 10:15 AM
Tarnak_Archvold
Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:23 am
#19
LuucEarthStroller wrote:
How in anyway is this taking away from the new player? In fact the only thing that would change is that buffs would have to be an active thing and would work passivly
Everything else stays the same.
Because BF healing and mind wound healing is the only income of a new musician. How can they compete with AFK players who Masters and there for can heal much faster and do not have to be tipped because that is there for the convenience of the owners main character.
You are practically selling out the new musicians so the veterans can get back what we have the right to in the first place. That is something I cannot condole.
LuucEarthStroller wrote:
Its not that a certain play style isnt popular enough. The issue my proposal is dealing with is the issue that AFK buffbots are the "pinnacle" of the profession, in that they are sought out first and often to the downright ignoring of live entertainers.
That is why they should be removed, but we do not have to give up anything to get that. They have tno right to have a AFK buffbot, and I doubt that that was what SoE meant with a "the brand new play style of entertainer". We on the other hand is a profession mend to be played live (like all professions are), and we have a right to not have to compete with AFK players.
DarkY0da
Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:39 am
#20
As already noted you can afk and macro a whole lot of this game. Doing this will NOT fix the problem that the devs are trying to fix. They didn't do this for us or because of us. We have given them plenty of ideas on "atk" bonus and blah blah blah. But it wouldn't do anything to fix the rest of the macro issues they have. So are going to do the "fix" that is the simple/easy that gets the most out of their coding. Coding something just for entertainers and then having to go through and code to fix the other macro issues is just a waste of time to them.
As well as when did we accept that it's "ok" to not play and to afk all day ? Why are we trying to find ways to compromise with NPC's ? We spend a lot of TIME atk playing our characters. A lot of TIME working through our profs. A lot of TIME trying to scrap enough together to buy a swoop or a house let alone clothing and buff foods. A lot of spend a ton of time working on dances and songs so that we put on a show...
Why should we compromise with NPC's that copy/paste hit 1 button and then sit there all day long ? Why is it ok at off hours or even at peak hours to have to travel to find a doc. But we are required to be everywhere all the time ?
It's a good idea and all but I think the logic behind a compromise is wrong and flawed.
Ingrata
Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:00 pm
#21
Bronski113 wrote:
In many cases i get treated as if i'm a npc. I don't get asked for buffs or whatever, i get demands for them.
I did comment on this in another thread, but being treated like an NPC really sucks. Anymore, people don't really ask me for a buff, then just send me a group invite. Or they stand there and shout group...like I'm a pet being trained.
sweatyclimber
Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:16 pm
#22
im sorry but you all are too jaded... this is a good compromise... it was not entitled total fix... but anything is better then nothing and as we know were not slated for anything time wise from the devs this would fix a lot w/ a little effort on their part... it would also create a much higher demand for buffs making us then have a viable way to make money again even if we are healing for free... if you don't think this would help, i would wonder how long you've been living with the problem because i have since launch, and i can assure you this woudl be usefull to us... great suggestion luuc!
Tangleweb
Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:52 pm
#23
i haven't looked at this thread yet, but here is aclicky for you
Dreamland
Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:29 pm
#24
LuucEarthStroller wrote:
The thing here Dreamland is i did concede that the whole underlying problem is not addressed. The entertainment proffesions as a whole with the exception of ID can be mastered afk quite easily.
I agree with you wholly that this reduced these professions to 2nd class and takes alot of respect away from the people like me and others that did it all ATK and worked through it all live.
But this is a way to turn around the tables and put things at least in a better perspective. Move the economy in the proper direction as it pertains to entertainers.
Relegate the AFK bots to the back ground.
The root of the problem needs to be fixed for sure. But in the meantime something as this would definately be making headway in that battle and could be used as a first step to turn things in the proper direction.
Its not the end all Its an Interim quick solution to an ongoing battle.
The key here is SOE has to do something about the AFK situation and put in rules and or different coding to combat it and then MAKE a STAND and ENFORCE it.
These are things that are going to take them time. And i do have faith that even though not alot of information is coming forth about it, something is being worked on in this regards. Im just offering my opinion on a way to start down the right path.
Sure, it would be nice if they did something to quell buffbots in the interim, but they won't in my opinion. The fact is if it was a priority to them it would be done. There have been many ideas posted to get rid of buffbots that were good. They have been and will continue to be ignored. Which leads me to one of two beliefs, that its just not a high priority, or the developers that play themselves probably use and or like buffbots.
I don't know what drives the developers descisions. Why they focus so hard on the jedi profession which is also a small part of the community i don't know. Why we have 32 professions all hurting for fixes i don't know. This i do know, were the bottom of the barrel when it comes to putting value on profesions. From the developers and from most of the other professions.
Message Edited by Dreamland on 10-02-2004 03:30 PM
LuucEarthStroller
Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:24 pm
#25
You know what dreamland.
I hate to say it
But i have to agree with you there.
Whether it is true or the actual intentions of the Devs that is exactly how it feels
sweatyclimber
Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:01 am
#26
wow by the tone of the reply's here you'd think this was a thread about how good afk was.... no wonder the devs avoid this place you all have too much hate anger and frustraition... take a break from the game a while is what I suggest