Dancer Archive
Thread: Am I on a Crusade? YOU bet!!!
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PoetDancer
Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:03 am
#14
Ok lets see if we can take a wild guess about Sony's take on the Dancer
2 items we heal
1 buff
60 pluss peices of eye candy in special moves and light show
I think it is pretty clear here that the intention is that we be entertaining. Sure we heal to, but that is what brings the people to us to we don't have to go looking for them. 60 pluss special moves is a LOT of content and when mixed in diffrent variations there is a lot to do. So for my part I think any content added to the proffesion should be more tools to amuse players durrent their down time. We don't need more power in the class we need more toys.
--Sultrina, April, 2004
Seems pretty clear to me where Sultrina stands, Panthu. After all, I talk to her in game. And I admit, we need more tools. Moreover, we need to fix our broken tools like the dances. But I think that its rarely what is discussed around here. Euclase is simply making this point. All we talk about is healing. And my only question is if healing just isn't working for us and our patrons, maybe healing and buffing should be given to other classes, or made less restrictive and authorized. BF healing and buffs are simply not the foundations of this class, and if they ever become the foundadtions of this class, then we cease to be what we are now. That's all Euclase, Sultrina, and I are saying.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 07-29-2004 01:09 PM
NewJedi
Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:38 am
#15
I agree with Panthu: ultimately my job is to represent fellow Musicians, and most Musicians despise AFK'ing and botting. Not all Musicians want to get out of the cantina; they want to reclaim the cantina, so that everyone in a band is actually "in" the band, performing actively, schmoozing it up. AFKing is the #3 issue on my current top-five list. It's my duty to pester the devs to do something about it.
Again, I also agree with the original poster that in the meantime, there's plenty of fun to be had entertaining. Events like the Cantina Crawl demonstrate that we can work around the AFK problem with some creativity. But ultimately I'd like to eliminate the need for workarounds.
Ikewe
Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:57 am
#16
I'd just like to say that I chose Dancing as my character's first and primary skill because the people I knew who were playing SWG needed a healer for their mind wounds and BF. I had never played a game anything like this and "shoot them up" didn't really appeal to me at the time. I hoped (and judging by the people who remember me from my early struggling days on Talus I have been successful to some degree) that by being social and "interacting" with patrons, Ikewe would also be a good entertainer.
This is a game. It is intended that the game be fun. If it isn't then what is the point? If you are not having fun in the cantinas for whatever reason then I applaud your choice to go where you do have fun. I also applaud your efforts because by concentrating on entertaining, you are reminding the combat players out there that we are not in fact NPC's. But I enjoy healing and buffing. Not because it's how I make money (I use combat missions and selling resourcesfor that). But because I want to support my fellow players. Yes I also want to entertain them but I'll also gladly dance for those players whose sole response to "How are the missions going for you tonight" is "k". Those players clearly aren't interested in being "entertained" and I don't think it's my job to force them to want it. If they want to have fun just playing kill the monster get the loot games then I say more power to them.
But I hope you can also respect our choice to continue having fun in the cantinas. The cantina is in fact where I started and I suspect it is where all new dancers and musicians are going to start. What kind of experience will they have if all of the entertainers are out and about and not in the cantinas offering tips, training, group experience, etc...? I'm going to continue to enjoy being a dancer who heals, supports, and entertains. I'm going to continue to make an effort to make AFK and buff botting undesirable. We can indeed all have fun with this if we can respect and appreciate that our ideas of who and what we are might be different.
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
Groovymarlin
Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:02 pm
#17
In all things there needs to be balance and moderation. If you dance only to heal and to give mind buffs, you will find yourself burnt out rather quickly. You have to find ways to enhance and enjoy your own performance, otherwise you'll end up spending more and more time AFK and doing something else. You might as well be a buffbot yourself at that point.
But if you dance only to perform, in venues where healing and buffing is not possible, it will get old pretty fast as well. You'll get tired of people asking over and over if you'll dance for them in the cantina, to heal or give a buff. You'll get tired of making less tips than the balanced entertainer who heals/buffs AND puts on an entertaining show. Sure there are gigs, and events, but not every weekend. The economy just can't sustain them.
Ideally we function as entertainers AND healers, both roles in moderation and in balance with each other. Being a performer does not mean that you cannot take advantage of the game mechanics provided to us through mind wound/battle fatigue healing and mind buffing. Likewise being a healer does not mean that you cannot find interesting ways to use your effects, combine different dance flourishes, write songs and sing them, make fun costume changes, or whatever it is that you decide makes you a star.
They are two sides of the same profession, and one cannot survive indefinitely without the other.
Xyrdre
Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:06 pm
#18
Euclase, I think you've gone too far. Way too far.
You started off with a reasonable post about how you would forsake buffing in order to return to having some fun in the game, and the community applauded you for being able to find a way to cope while we're trying to get this mess sorted out. That post however degenerated rapidly into three threads of near nonsense, where you've gone off the deep end like a zealot who's sure they'vejust found the new messiah. You have gone from finding a way to cope with an unacceptable environmentto attacking those who would still try to repair things, and thus you have become a troll. I'm sure you didn't originally mean to, but your fanatical conviction has driven you to complete destructive methods.
I've read all of your ranting and raving in the three threads since your "enlightenment", and I see nothing more than someone else who has given up hope. Some people give up hope and decide to leave the game, then come back to the forums and scream at all of us foolish entertainers who don't see the "truth" that their eyes have opened to when we don't join them ina mass exodus from SWG. Your argument is no different, except that you're calling for all of us "in the dark" entertainers to follow you out of the cantinas.
You base all of your positions on the assumption that buffbots and AFK in general is the officially accepted norm for the professions, based on instances that I can just aseasily argue are aberrations of policy rather than official policy. Yes, I'll agree that SOE has not done a bang-up job of presenting a clear stance, and has done very little to present a solid unified front on the part of all of their employees in keeping with that policy, whatever it may be. However, the "proof" that you offer is weak. It is based on the actions of a couple of CSR's, who are not the devs, and I'm told are often not very well trained as far as game mechanics and design standards go.
You seeminglydon't care about the entertainer professions having income potential, because you can make money as an ID. Adding ID to your 'template' is something else that you enjoy, and that's great. I can make money with my combat skills on the side too, and having that sideline profession for hunting is something that I enjoy. But just because I can make a lot of money as a master Riflegirl does not mean that I will advocate shutting down inherent salable value in two eliteprofessions - professions that cost skill points - for players who are here to play purely within that style. An elite profession should not, repeat, should not, be forced to take another totally unrelated profession solelyto be able to earn a living. Tips - a voluntary gratuity from a grateful player base - for healing and later buffing were our intended incomes. Clearly that needs to be revisited, as our healing and buffing has been overrun by machines, the general playerbase is conditioned to not tip,and there isn't much else to rely on.
All that I'm hearing between the lines in your rants is "if you want to make some money, pick up a useful profession instead of those silly entertainer ones". Hmm... does that sound familiar? I wouldn't have expected that line from one of our own. And at least from what I saw, before the new ID interface and stat migrations went in for ID's, ID's had a very difficult timemaking much money at all. You're newfound cashcow wouldn't be there if not for development in the profession... development that we're still fighting for here in the dancer and musician forums.
If dancers and musicians cannot earn even a basic living, we cannot call them professions, but merely vanity hobbies. Without some direct ties to the game mechanics and economy, there is no reason that these 'professions' should cost skill points, as they would have no bearing or impactwhatsoever on the overall game. The end result of your proposal of simply being a non-healing, non-buffing entertainer is greater reason to drop the professions from the game entirely, or maybe just keep the skill animations and flashy lightsaround that anyone can take without skill points.
If someone is able to pull tips without any healing or buffing involved, but purely on the entertainment value, then that's great. I make tips that way as well sometimes, and some very nice ones at that. But I would never saddle three professions into that arena; it would serve only to devalue them further. Furthermore, it has occured to me that one of the main reasons that people tip for just entertainment (whether in a cantina, starport, or just in the wild) is not because weare just so freaking charming, but insteadbecause with the proliferation of the AFKness, we're an oddity, and that person is encouraging getting rid of the AFK themselves. Those tips you're mentioning receiving out at outposts may in fact be even more encouragement to keep up the good fight against AFK and bots. Yet here you are, encouraging everyone to stop fighting the good fight.
Here is the state of things as I see it. There are not three versions of Entertainer, the Healer, the Buffer, the Performer. They are supposed to be an integrated whole... a total package. Two of those roles have been overrun by an abomination of what our professions are supposed to be. I do not believe that any part of this game was intended to be fully automated and not even require a player to run the character. The fact that66% of our professions' functions (and 100% of our game mechanics) can be completely done without a player present is proof of a broken system. The fact that the devs haven't fixed this broken system has allowed things to degenerate to a critical-mass state, as we see today.
IrinaStarsinger wrote:
You CHOOSE to live in SWG. The Rules are what they are. If you're not happy with it then leave as so many others have.
OR... accept the world as it IS and make the most of it. Quit whining for someone to come Rescue you. Freedom is not GIVEN... its Taken.
Be a Victim is you choose to. I REFUSE the label of Victim. I will not BE a victim. But if we're gonna fight for a place in SWG lets fight the RIGHT battle.
To the contrary, you seem to me to be the perfect victim. You can have two out of three of your professions abiliites ripped out from under you by macro automation, you can be driven from your ancestral homelands (performance venues), and you can have your intended methods of income obliterated, and your response in the end is to "accept the world as it IS and make the most of it". Taking your lot, even though your lot has been reduced and reduced...
You think that you've recognized the rules (which I still think you've possibly misinterpreted), and so you've decided to lie down and accept it, rather than continue totry to effect positive change. I wouldn't be so direct in these kinds of assessments if you hadn't taken the initiative of being insulting and negative to so many of the people here that are still trying to get fixes. The Rules may be what they are, but Rules can change.
There would be no SWG, and no Star Wars, if the Rebels followed your advice. Nor a United States of America, a French Revolution... need I go on?Think about that.
IrinaStarsinger wrote:
We can complain about the world in which we live and beat our breasts and tear our hair and rip our clothing in mourning overhow unfair an cruel it is. OR we can take the world as it comes and make the best of it.
I choose the latter.
Look, I don't fault you one bit for giving up. Being out on the front fighting the battles to retake our professions' validity in thegame is frustrating, exhausting, and largely unrewarding. Many others besides yourself have given up - some have left to do their thing out in player cities, some just fled cantinas altogether and don't worry about healing or buffing at all,some left the game entirely. It's absolutely exhausting.
But, here's what I'm going to do. If the devs are not approving of AFK and buffbots, I'm here to keep reminding them that we need these things taken care of... sooner, not later. If your core assessments are correct, that SOE indeed is backing the bot and not the live player, then I'm here to keep trying to change their minds. And I'll continue to do sountil my last energy is spent, and go the way of so many others... cutting my losses and leaving the game.
I still have some fight left in me. If you've lost yours, that's fine, but I'd appreciate it if you'd stop"crusading" to get everyone else to lie down and die. I'm going to keep on fighting, and if you don't want to, you don't have to.
Blamj
Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:29 pm
#19
Why remove buff botts? So chefs can get more money when I buy brandy from them??!??
Drygo
Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:40 pm
#20
Blamj wrote:
Why remove buff botts? So chefs can get more money when I buy brandy from them??!??
Again...a post that has absolutely no logic whatsoever. Or, should I say, "HUH?!"
kirah_ashlin
Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:58 am
#21
Don't even bother trying to understand,Drygo. I stopped long ago and am the better for it. . . .
Drygo wrote:
Blamj wrote:
Why remove buff botts? So chefs can get more money when I buy brandy from them??!??
Again...a post that has absolutely no logic whatsoever. Or, should I say, "HUH?!"
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