Dancer Archive
Thread: Am I on a Crusade? YOU bet!!!
IrinaStarsinger wrote:
Im getting a lot of flak over saying Forget about the buffbots. Forget about the AFK performers.
My question is.. WHY???
When this Profession came out back in the early days the ONLY thing we had was BF healing.. And that was a totally passive skill that we didnt really do much with. People didn't tip us so much for healing their BF as for Entertaining them. If we Danced or Played.. their BF was healed. QED. It was simple Byproduct of what we did.
We exchanged advice on how to talk to customers, jokes to tell, what to wear, what kind of dance was best, how to attract customers. We discussed being Entertainers.
Read through our forum. LOTS of advice on how to buff.
Is THAT what we've become? Buffers? People who'se sole reason for taking up Dance or Music is to enhance conbat efficiency?
Its not what I've become. Its part of what being a dancer means to me. The buffing process isn't cut and dry like a doctor, it requires a level of knowledge to perform properly so, ya posts about how to do it properly is neccessary. My sole reason to be a socializer that heals. I do buffs heals and entertainment all at the cantina nearest you.
That a LONG ways from how we started out.
How and when did we forget about being Entertainers? Where did all the bands go? Why did we Forget about Entertaining and become ATK buffbots? Because THAT"S what we're complaining about. We're whining that the AFK buffbots are doing a Better job at buffing than the aTk buffers.
I've never stopped being an entertainer. I dance with a band of master musicians every night. I'm not an ATK buffbot I'm an entertainer that can buff. I'm not complaining about AFK doing a better job, I don't think they do. They don't entertain. I'm grumpy that my customers are being stolen by zombies.
We're complaining that the AFK BF healers are taking all the business away from the aTk bf healers.
Why do I have to keep saying this. I'm not a BF healer. I'm an entertainer that heals. Its part of the job description and I do a dang good job of it. And healing BF isn't my beef. Anyone that watches me get healing, I don't need the experience and could care less if I'm the target of their healing so long as they are talking to me.
How did we EVER get reduced to this pathetic state? When did we give up BEING Entertainers and become buffers?
I DID NOT STOP BEING AN ENTERTAINER!!! *pant* Stop saying that. Not everyone fits into this little mold you're jamming us into. Perhaps you saw yourself only being a buffer but I have NEVER EVER seen myself as dropping my entertainer roots to buff. I can entertain WHILE buffing. They arecompletely separate sides of dancer I can complete at the same time. Its not like when someone wants a buff I stop talking and just dance and focus on flourishing like mad. In fact quite the opposite! I have a captive audience for the next 3 minutes and dang it I'm going to use that time!
Get OFF your lazy butts people. Get OUT of the spammy cantinas and rediscover Entertaining. Form a band. Get a couple dancers together and do a show in front of a starport. Go Play some music at a shuttle port to amuse the people waiting.
I do entertain outside of the cantina. Its a refreshing change of pace. But to maximize all the tools available with the dancing profession I must be in a place that allows my healing and buffing to work.
Stop whining and DANCE!!!!
I am not whining. I am dancing. Please stop with these posts. They are repetative and just plain silly.
IrinaStarsinger wrote:
Goldy said...
'I'm grumpy that my customers are being stolen by zombies."
-----------------------------------
Did you REALLY say that??
Read that statement... Read it carefully and PONDER what you said.
An AFK zombie STOLE your customers....
A computer somewhere ... running a Macro attracted a potential customer away from YOU.
That computer STOLE something.. that BELONGED to you. You had a RIGHT to that customer and that zombie did something mean and cruel and immoral and TOOK something of YOURS away from you.
A STEAL macro!!!!
Or......
Is it that THAT zombie dancer offered more VALUE to that potential customer than you did? Or is it that you competed with a computer running a macro and the computer WON?
Well just MAYBE..... you're competing on the WRONG field of battle.
If the buffbot won... MAYBE that buffbot was doing a better job of providing what he or she provided than you were. At least the CUSTOMER seemed to think so. And the CUSTOMER decides who gets his or her tips.
So become a better buffer I guess. OR Provide something thatBuffbot can't! Entertainment.....
If the buffbot won... MAYBE that buffbot was doing a better job of providing what he or she provided than you were. At least the CUSTOMER seemed to think so. And the CUSTOMER decides who gets his or her tips.
So become a better buffer I guess. OR Provide something thatBuffbot can't! Entertainment.....
Yes, a buffbot who can spend 23/7 on the computer offering buffs ad infinitem is doing a "better job" at offering buffs than I could. So, yes, the customer decides to use the buff bot because they are always there - always available and don't talk back. There is no way for an ATK performer to compete with this level of service from an automated process. It would be like a human racing a car. Therefore becoming a better buffer isn't technically possible.
Providing entertainment is what, I believe, all ATKers do. The problem with this is that most of our audience isn't looking for that kind of entertainment. They are just seeking to boost their stats and go on their merry way killing something to get XP or reputation.
The buff bots weaken our profession by taking away our ability to make money since we have no way of realistically competing with their ability to be "on" all the time.
-------------------
Yes, a buffbot who can spend 23/7 on the computer offering buffs ad infinitem is doing a "better job" at offering buffs than I could. So, yes, the customer decides to use the buff bot because they are always there - always available and don't talk back. There is no way for an ATK performer to compete with this level of service from an automated process. It would be like a human racing a car. Therefore becoming a better buffer isn't technically possible.
Providing entertainment is what, I believe, all ATKers do. The problem with this is that most of our audience isn't looking for that kind of entertainment. They are just seeking to boost their stats and go on their merry way killing something to get XP or reputation.
The buff bots weaken our profession by taking away our ability to make money since we have no way of realistically competing with their ability to be "on" all the time.
----------------
Two points here.
One.. YOU just made the case they we cannot realistically compete with Buffbots. Thank you.
So what do we do? Find a way to providea Service that they CAN'T compete with. Or..... whine and complain that they took all our busines away. Ever heard of the Buggy whip industry??
Two.. No one, LEAST of all buffbots, have taken a way your ability to make money.
That I dont understand. I make a great living doing ID and stats and the buffbots havent affected that at all.
Oh!! You mean make money Buffing? Well guess what? THEY do it Better, Cheaper, and more Reliably than WE do since, as you noted. THEY are there 24/7.
Where did you or anyone else get the idea that we are Guaranteed or OWED being able to make a living Dancing and buffing? If you WANT to make a living buffing... HEY! The Buffbot macros are readily available. Become a buffbot and you too can make a living buffing.
What YOU'RE saying is that you WANT to make a living doing it YOUR way. SOE should make it so because we WANTTT IT!!!
I WANNAmake a good living buffing and Dancing SOE!! Make it so I can!!!!
In the world I've always lived in both in here and out there, you dont GET things just cause you WANT them! If you WANT something YOU go out and earn it. If you DONT want it bad enough to do whatever it takes to get it, then dont expect someone else to change the rules so you can just becasue you.... WANT... it. Life doesnt work that way. And Wishing AIN'T gonna make it so.
Now, I'm outta here. I'm gonna wait till the servers come back up and then I'm gonna do an hour or so of ID... THEN I'm gonna go Dance and Entertain people. Those of you who think I'm a crazy old woman can go back to your whining and complaining about buffbots and telling anyone who will listen that you're Owed a living cause you WANT it.
Me? Im gonna Dance.
IrinaStarsinger wrote:-------------------
I make a great living doing ID and stats and the buffbots havent affected that at all.Oh!! You mean make money Buffing? Well guess what? THEY do it Better, Cheaper, and more Reliably than WE do since, as you noted. THEY are there 24/7.
Where did you or anyone else get the idea that we are Guaranteed or OWED being able to make a living Dancing and buffing? If you WANT to make a living buffing... HEY! The Buffbot macros are readily available. Become a buffbot and you too can make a living buffing.
What YOU'RE saying is that you WANT to make a living doing it YOUR way. SOE should make it so because we WANTTT IT!!!
I WANNA make a good living buffing and Dancing SOE!! Make it so I can!!!!
In the world I've always lived in both in here and out there, you dont GET things just cause you WANT them!
Oh my. Where to start?
Please try to understand that this is about at least having the choice of making money using all our entertainer skills. Those include, whether you like it or not, BF healing and Buffing but not exclusively. Taking myself as an example, most of the tips I make are because I'm ATK, chatting and entertaining the audience. But it doesn't remove the validity of making money by using all our game provided skills.
When you say things like If you WANT to make a living buffing... HEY! The Buffbot macros are readily available. Become a buffbot and you too can make a living buffing., you are seriously bordering on the insulting. Why is using all your class capabilities bad or how does it make one a buffbot wannabe? What if an ID was to go on a crusade and say that stat migrations are not Image Design? From now on, you should only make money ID'ing by changing eye colour and hair styles. Would you simply go: Of course. Why should I do all those other things an ID can do?
Again, it's about choice. One choice doesn't make you a worse player. We're all different.
And to conclude: In the world I've always lived in both in here and out there, you dont GET things just cause you WANT them!
Is this a good time to point out that SWG is NOT the world you've always lived in? It's a controlled virtual game world where real life rules needn't apply. Otherwise, we'd probably be playing a sanitised version of The Sims, not SWG. So, again, why is defending any of the game professions and arguing for things that support a wider array of playstyle choices for that profession (including your choice), a bad thing or whining?
I guess you'll come back and argue that I'm a whiner or a buffbot wannabe (even though I don't buff) when what I defend is a well rounded entertainer profession where various playstyles are supported by the game.
Like Panthu, I'm looking forward to seeing the results of that epiphany and that pure love of dancing. Quality entertainment is tons of fun to watch.
Message Edited by Wendelius on 07-29-2004 04:35 PM
IrinaStarsinger wrote:
Get OFF your lazy butts people. Get OUT of the spammy cantinas and rediscover Entertaining. Form a band. Get a couple dancers together and do a show in front of a starport. Go Play some music at a shuttle port to amuse the people waiting.
How about you get OFF your high horse?
IrinaStarsinger wrote:
Two points here.
One.. YOU just made the case they we cannot realistically compete with Buffbots. Thank you.
So what do we do? Find a way to providea Service that they CAN'T compete with. Or..... whine and complain that they took all our busines away. Ever heard of the Buggy whip industry??
I don't consider voicing my opinion, whining. I do dance and I speak my mind about how buff bots are bad for our profession.
What YOU'RE saying is that you WANT to make a living doing it YOUR way. SOE should make it so because we WANTTT IT!!!
I WANNAmake a good living buffing and Dancing SOE!! Make it so I can!!!!
In the world I've always lived in both in here and out there, you dont GET things just cause you WANT them! If you WANT something YOU go out and earn it. If you DONT want it bad enough to do whatever it takes to get it, then dont expect someone else to change the rules so you can just becasue you.... WANT... it. Life doesnt work that way. And Wishing AIN'T gonna make it so.
I want buff bots gone so badly, that I am going to work at it. I'm going to write SOE and let my voice be heard as often and as loudly as possibly so that this is done. We're not talking about changing "rules" that people live by - we're talking about fixing an exploit in a program to return it's functionality to be in line with the designers intent.
I see entertainers defending their profession by denouncing buff bots and AFKers. Toignore those issues completely is to admit defeat and accept that there's nothing you can do to make a change. Iagree that no one should sacrifice the fun in entertaining to crusade against buff bots, and I don't believe anyone here does that. We fight when we can and where we can to fix the profession. If you're willing to turn a blind eye to something, that's your choice! But to ask everyone else to follow you down the path of complacency is asking a bit much.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 07-29-2004 12:25 PM
PoetDancer wrote:
Don't let them get to you, Euclase. You got it right. BF healing, mind wound healing, and buffs were never the reasons we were tipped or respected. EVER. These things are only the reasons they come to us, but not the reasons they tip us or respect us. The old hands like Sultrina knew this. I know it. And you know it too. Don't let them get to you, because you will be able to survive in a world of bots with this mindset of yours. Those who refuse to come to grips with the fact that their performance makes all the difference will inevitably discover what we have known all along. Any attempt to justify whyone should get respect or tips for simply skill animating will make one hated. Its too easy to generate game mechanics to justify why this alone is a tippable service. Focus on the things the bot cannot do. Give Noolos something more than BF healing, mind wound healing, and buffs.
Hmm... I don't know Sirii. Sultrina was always really big on asking the Devs for more creative control.... more Artistic Dancing and ways to be more visually pleasing. She was not very big on the healing and buffing and all in that vein, but she certainly wanted improvements and didn't mind saying so. 
Also, I know that you make a real effort to reach out to the patrons and make their Cantina time more immersive and enjoyable. You are not selfish at all and are very giving with your Dancing. 
I would like to say I saw Euclase saying that she plans to be doing the same thing... but I really don't.
She says there is no difference between an ATK Dancer who is reaching out to the patron and furthering the amusement, enjoyment, and immersion for the patron while buffing... and an AFK Buff Bot. I don't think you believe that Sirii. I don't think Sultrina believed that. I know I don't. I think there is a huge difference in between an ATK Dancer and an AFK Dancer and I will be glad when game mechanics support that difference.
I think it's great if Euclase can be happy never healing anyone's BF and leaving it to the AFKers as she said. If she finds Events like the Starport Jams more exciting than interfacing with the Patrons in the Cantinas, I think that's great. Starport Jams create immersion too and I would love to see one every time I got off of a shuttle! 
I'll still want us to have more Base Dances, Flourishes, Props, Group Commands, and Tech Effects though and I don't mind saying so. I would also hope that the Dancers at these Jams would be friendly and reach out to the nice people who come to watch and tip them for their pure performance just like you and Ireach outin the Cantinas.
After all, one Dancer's actions really do seem to carry a lot of weight as to the way the rest of us are treated...