Dancer Archive
Thread: Reactions from the other correspondents?
Drygo wrote:
Also, keep in mind that a dancer, to the best of my knowledge doesn't have to flourish to heal battle fatigue. Any dancer can keep their avatar on all night long just doing the base dance and heal people, no macros or flourishes involved. I think. (right?) I know sometimes if I'm not paying attention and can't keep flourishing, as my dance experience keeps going down to zero, my healing experience seems to be solely based on people watching.
Message Edited by Drygo on 08-05-2004 05:08 AM
You are correct. Healing doesn't require flourishes at all.
Lack of available entertainers and Buffers is game breaking for a large majority of us. Afk'rs and BuffBots came about as a result of the NEED for services to be rendered
A few things...
- I can still solo just about anything thats yellow or "low red" with only my light set of comp and food (I use scrimpy, gruuvan, Accrigrim and vas brandy) My armor is also 400/380/400 encumbernace...It was tailor made to be lighter..
- There is nothing game breaking about *not* having buffs....Buffs on a whole have been the thing that *has* been breaking the game...Your not supposed to solo a night sister elder alone...However, ultra regen/0 HAM costs from buffs have made this possible.
The problem is you are used to the game being broken in the wrong direction *and* most combat types have gotten to lazy to even relize that the game can be played without buffs....Buffs are *not* your right, they are an enhancment provided by another class to make things easier...
80% base 1000/900/1000 enc comp armor was *never* even supposed to be wearable...Buffs broke that...And now players on a whole are used to being buffed 24/7 so they can wear this ultra armor and still spam specials. Againkilling 20 night sisters at a time because of buffs+ armor was not intended...Your not supposed to be able to do this...
However, since we can do this, then at the very leastthis "power" should take some preperation. How spoiled have the combat classes become if they think they should be able to be buffed and ready to kill raid style content within 5 minutes of logging in....If you want to be enahnced by another class then you are going to have *find* a player for the class....I swear, in *not one other game* that I have played can a player sub out a needed player/class with an AFK bot. I could only imagine the outrage in EQ if clerics were AFK buffing and ressurecting at zone lines.
The point is, combat players on a whole, have been very spoiled....be innovative and realize that people did used to hunt *without* buffs....
Instead of buying the enhancment sliced armor, grab some encumberance sliced stuff......Grab more well rounded food stuffs...Change your secondaries to be slightly higher on the HAM reduction *in all fields* not just mind.....
Think and actually play the game rightinstead of getting buffed and throwing on your 80% comp and then laughing as 30 rancors hit you because you know they can *never* kill you. All combat types should start doing this now, because once combat is balanced, your going to have too...
I'd say the majority who needs bf heals and buffs are more important (in a business sense, not in a social/individual way...this is not a personalattack on anyone who chooses to play an entertainer...or your 'validity' as a person or player) than an entertainer
Actually, from a buisness stand point, AFK ents will only hurt the company in the end....
Most successful MMO's "force" social interaction by grouping....They require groups for *everything* from end-game content (raid size groups of 30+) to every day grinding (4 or 5 people)....In fact verylittle can be done inmost games without groups...
These "groups" were the foundation of the social bonds in the game...Eventually, as people got stronger, regular groups started to form each night. Eventually the people in these groups become friends and form guilds...Which is how the "raid size" groups get formed...Wala, social bonds formed and these people are now hooked in for the money making...
However, star wars, is a very "casual" friendly game...."raids" were really meant for around 10-20 people, not 30-40....and most of the "grind" content could be soloed...This of course meant that the start of the "social" dynamic (small groups) that other games had was not present in SWG....So, another point of social interaction was thought up,whichwas the cantina....This is the *only* forced social interaction in SWG...
Without this, most players, will never form bonds and will become dispondent with the game quickly...This will eventually lead to the death of a game (as hasbeen proven before).
In most games its......Required grouping------>Friendship------>Guilds------->Raids------->long term customers...
In SWG its Grinding--------->Cantina BF healing/friendship------>guilds------Raids-------->Long term customers....
Now, this is broken on two levels...Raids do not work because players are way to strong and *everything* can be soloed...Also, there is no interaction at the cantina's, because of AFK, sothe "friendships" arenever formed....So, the chain breaks, twice, and thats a large reason why the turn-over rate in SWG is so high...Most servers are ghost towns anymore.
Just go look at most of the older guilds on any server...90% of the started in one of three place....Endor (while hunting in large groups)...They came from another game *or* friends from the Cantina...
This AFK crap needs to be fixed as bad as combat does.....Once those two things are fixed, SWG will be a good game..
Message Edited by Taewyn on 08-05-2004 10:48 AM
Tanks, thank you for coming back and discussing this some more. However, you seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that the devs don't like recursive macros in combat any more than they like buffbots or macrotainers. What about TH's follow up post in the In Development thread where he says that he feels you shouldn't ever be able to use a looping macro in combat? Where's your reaction to that?
TH said:
Personally, I disagree on the brawler point though. I don't think recursive macros should be allowed in any kind of combat, but that's just me.
The "blame the entertainer" mentality is getting so tiresome...
NewJedi: What fabulous news! I've been lobbying for this almost as long as I've been Correspondent. Heh, I never thought they'd actually listen. Wheeeee!
I've played a Carbineer since launch, and I also have a Commando. It's not like I have no interest in the combat side of the game. But that side of the game becomes trivial or worse when it can be botted.
In any case, my interest is in removing long-running macros, not necessarily short repeated macros. If the devs can devise a way to eliminate bots of all kinds -- entertainer, sampling, combat -- but preserve short recursive macros to ease the pain of crafting or a few repeated combat keystrokes, I can live with that.
Tanks wrote:
TH said:
Personally, I disagree on the brawler point though. I don't think recursive macros should be allowed in any kind of combat, but that's just me.
Interesting that you took TH's personal opinion and generalized it to what I highlighted in your post. THs job is to act as a liason between the devs and the community and he is not a dev per se.
OK, well what's your personal opinion? Do you think recursive macros are OK in combat (for spamming specials, running CoB, or even gaining xp at a static spawn)? What about people spamming for hours around starports (with auto-AFK turned off and keep-alive macros so the AFK filter doesn't work)? What about people tumbling and healing AFK to master medic and doctor?
Do these things represent the way the designers intended the game to be played?
P.S. And OMG Tanks *please* lobby to get that weapon switch delay removed, it's really starting to annoy me! 
I've been lurking because this thread has been very interesting and good points have been posted by all sides (except for the OMG flames). Time for my rather long 2 cents. 
. Message Edited by atimes on 08-06-2004 12:08 PM
Groovymarlin wrote:
P.S. And OMG Tanks *please* lobby to get that weapon switch delay removed, it's really starting to annoy me!
atimes wrote:
The previous poster had it right on the money. If you go afk all macro's get dumped. Plain and simple and it's a change that doesn't have adverse effects on everyone
Message Edited by atimes on 08-06-2004 12:08 PM
- Go from Novice Artisan to Survey IV without leaving the keyboard.
- Never ever get up from the keys when waiting for a starship.
- Go from Business IV to Master Merchant in3 weeks or less, without ever using any type of AFK or having one used on your behalf.
That's just a sampling. Talk to me in a month when you're done, and THEN tell me removing AFK doesn't hurt.
Some parts of the game is broken. Macros are a way to work around that "brokenness" until the devs finally get around to fixing it... IF THEY EVER DO.
The solution is not whacking macros. Harmful AFK cannot beeliminated by code changes. It can be lessened by removing the desire for people to AFK - either by removing the rewards for doing so or by removing the tedium and boredom that encourage people to do so.It can only beeliminated by enacting and then enforcing policies. Doing so requires competent, trained, and active CSR staff.
Unfortunately, SOE does not have a competent, trained, active CSR staff.
So what will we be left with? A bunch of people who don't want to break the rules complaining to high heaven about the few who continue to do so unchecked. Bigger rift. Bigger problem.
Wrong solution.
While this is not the place for a debate I'll bite just this once
Grind craft while you survey (with a looping crafting macro I might add). You are at the keyboard the whole time (at least that's how I did my surveying. Granted I never got to surveying IV but that's what I did)
Never ever get up from the keys when waiting for a starship
If I'm craft grinding or actively doing something I don't. If I'm not doing anything I get up frequently. In fact when I was levelingscout I ENJOYED star port waits since it meant I could grind outsurvival xp.
I don't hologrind and I'm casual. It takes me on average a few weeks to a month of play to master a prof playing 1.5 - 2 hours a day. You get merchant xp from simply having a vendor up. If it takes me longer than 3 weeks what's it matter to mesince I don't master professions for holocron's. After publish 10 it won't matter to anyone else either since they won't have to master profs in lightning speed anymore (THANK GOODNESS)
I don't AFK macro anything (I don't pay 15 bucks a month to be an autobot). Back before crafting scout stuff gave you survival xp I'd make a camp and let my toon sit there but there was no macro going on so in a sense it was a "bot". Even with that I'd still mainly be at the keyboard reading or doing something else getting up only when my wife needed me to do something. And yes I have completely mastered doc being at the keyboard the entire time AND not healingtumblers (*gasp* I actually got my xp from HEALING OTHER PEOPLE WHO NEEDED LEGIT HEALING). I'm against bots because I can't stand tumblers (they've ruinedthat profession just like bot's have ruined entertainers) I just think getting rid of recursive macro's will nothelp anything.
My solution was to dump macro's if you go afk. Youseem to beimplying I am against going afk period and I'm not. You can go afk all you want, you're toon just can't actively do stuff while you are gone. Besides it takes a good 10 minutes before afk kicks in so you can come back once every 10 minutes to do something to keep your "bot" alive.
By the way I DO agree with getting rid of the tedious parts of the game but still once you leave the keyboard and go afkyour macro should dump. If this game wasn't about grinding so much then we wouldn't need certain recursive macro's the way we doand if we didn't need them we wouldn't mind them going away when we left our keyboards. We afk macro to help us grind. If the "grind" is addressed then what's it matter if the macro dumps when we go afk since our macros will help us do in game at the keyboard functions at that point?
Message Edited by atimes on 08-06-2004 01:00 PM
