Dancer Archive
Thread: Flabbergasted!
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Esharra
Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:42 am
#2
mhmm..the first reason we were given was that our code is too buggy to support it. The last reason we were given was that some players might just spend their time starting and stopping buffs to exploit the 50 or 60 xp points we can get when buffing. Which reason (*cough* excuse *cough*) do you think we believe?
picklesSW wrote:
We're flabbergasted too.
NullTensor
Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:12 am
#3
There is also the fundamental different in resource requirements between the two buffs. Doctors have to craft enhancement packs requireing some rare and expensive resources. The last time I checked Musicians and Dancers only needed to perform for a couple of minutes for the buff to take effect.
I'm sure if Dancers and Musicians want to spend half of their time hunting for resources or spend money purchasing buff packs from vendors then SOE wil have no problem letting them buff themselves.
You're comparing apples and oranges.
nulltensor
Master Fool
*** spelling correction ***
Message Edited by NullTensor on 09-18-2004 06:13 AM
Esharra
Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:18 am
#4
While players use this argument frequently in discussions where their position is that entertainers should not expect economic compensation for applying buffs, the devs have never used this as a reason for entertainers not being able to benefit from their own skills. I think it might be you who is trying to make the irrelevant comparison.
NullTensor wrote:
There is also the fundamental different in resource requirements between the two buffs. Doctors have to craft enhancement packs requireing some rare and expensive resources. The last time I checked Musicians and Dancers only needed to perform for a couple of minutes for the buff to take effect.
I'm sure if Dancers and Musicians want to spend half of their time hunting for resources or spend money purchasing buff packs from vendors then SOE wil have no problem letting them buff themselves.
You're comparing apples and oranges.
nulltensor
Master Fool
*** spelling correction ***
Message Edited by NullTensor on 09-18-2004 06:13 AM
NullTensor
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:03 am
#5
Esharra wrote:
While players use this argument frequently in discussions where their position is that entertainers should not expect economic compensation for applying buffs, the devs have never used this as a reason for entertainers not being able to benefit from their own skills. I think it might be you who is trying to make the irrelevant comparison.
I never raised any issue with compensation of dancers. Please don't try to recast what I'm saying as a straw man.
I'm simply pointing out the cost / benefit balance between the two buff types. If you want tocahnge one side of the equation please be prepared for the other side to be balanced as well.
nulltensor
Master Fool
NewJedi
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:19 am
#6
Entertainer buffs involve a resource of sorts: the entertainer's time. Perhaps less time than the per-unit time cost of a particular doctor buff, though that's debatable. In my case, it's about 6-8 minutes, because I don't use speed buffs.
In any case, entertainer buffs are already devalued by the game: they are shorter in duration and weaker in power than Doctor buffs. I see no gameplay reason to preclude a self-buff.
Of all the various dev explanations for why we have no self-buff, I think the most likely one is that the buff code is fragile, and that they're worried about tampering with it one more time.
NullTensor
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:22 am
#7
NewJedi wrote:
Entertainer buffs involve a resource of sorts: the entertainer's time. Perhaps less time than the per-unit time cost of a particular doctor buff, though that's debatable. In my case, it's about 6-8 minutes, because I don't use speed buffs.
In any case, entertainer buffs are already devalued by the game: they are shorter in duration and weaker in power than Doctor buffs. I see no gameplay reason to preclude a self-buff.
Of all the various dev explanations for why we have no self-buff, I think the most likely one is that the buff code is fragile, and that they're worried about tampering with it one more time.
I think you greatly underestimate the time required to gather resources and craft enhancement packs.
nulltensor
Master Fool
EsistDarkSky
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:25 am
#8
Because the Devs forgot to include this coding, so, instead of fixing it, they bring out the fact that it could be Exploited.
FuschiaD
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:34 am
#9
NullTensor wrote:
I think you greatly underestimate the time required to gather resources and craft enhancement packs.
Don't be so sure of that. You know, we DO play stuff other than dancers. I used to be a doc myself. Yeah, it's a total pain, trying to collect all the specificresources and trying to get them as good as possible. It involves a lot of time, travel and patience.
I don't think that's any reason to say that docs can buff themselves and dancers can't, though. You're right, comparing doc buffs to dancer buffs IS like comparing apples and oranges, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to do it. I have always been all for self-buffing for the entertainer professions. The 'you don't use any resources' argument is irrelevant... it just doesn't matter when it comes to this. It isn't about rewards vs. effort, but about the fairness and equality of the game. We've spent the skill points to become a dancer/musician; we should be able to use our own skills on ourselves.
AndEsharra's right, the devs have never given THAT as a reason for why we can't buff ourselves.
Edit: was Esharra that said that, not Javier. /doh
Message Edited by FuschiaD on 09-18-2004 07:35 AM
EsistDarkSky
Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:37 am
#10
FuschiaD wrote:
NullTensor wrote:I think you greatly underestimate the time required to gather resources and craft enhancement packs.
Don't be so sure of that. You know, we DO play stuff other than dancers. I used to be a doc myself. Yeah, it's a total pain, trying to collect all the specific resources and trying to get them as good as possible. It involves a lot of time, travel and patience.I don't think that's any reason to say that docs can buff themselves and dancers can't, though. You're right, comparing doc buffs to dancer buffs IS like comparing apples and oranges, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to do it. I have always been all for self-buffing for the entertainer professions. The 'you don't use any resources' argument is irrelevant... it just doesn't matter when it comes to this. It isn't about rewards vs. effort, but about the fairness and equality of the game. We've spent the skill points to become a dancer/musician; we should be able to use our own skills on ourselves.And Esharra's right, the devs have never given THAT as a reason for why we can't buff ourselves.Edit: was Esharra that said that, not Javier. /dohMessage Edited by FuschiaD on 09-18-2004 07:35 AM
On TOP of this, I see there are 2 different kind of Docs. The Crafting Docs and the Buffing docs.
Crafting Docs craft Meds and sell them to the Buffing Docs. Buffing Docs buy the crafting Docs meds and make their money off buffing.
Sure, you could do both, and I know a bunch do. But the pain of collecting Resources is but one of the ways a Doctor can make his or her money.
Lires
Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:33 pm
#11
I just don't understand this at all! I load into Coronet starport and see all these doctors buff themselves... amazing. However, I go into the cantina and notice that dancers cannot buff themselves. What is up with this? So a master dancer is suppose to watch another master dancer to get a mind buff? That seems a bit crazy (although the social aspect wouldn't be too bad). It makes absolutely no sense on why a master dancer cannot buff themselves.
I am no way qualified to become a master dancer (sorry, I am more of a triggerhappy type person) but this seems a bit ridiculus. I really feel that master dancers should have the ability to buff themselves. Of course someone can argue that it takes components to buff people as a doctor, but if they can increase the times to buff themselves or something of balancing I think it would work out for the best.
I wrote this post solely on hearing a master dancer I have known for a long time ask on our voice chat if she could get a mind buff from another person on voice. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. So therefore, I am flabbergasted!
Drygo
Sun Sep 19, 2004 7:17 pm
#12
Well, not really. I'm not even sure why resources are brought up. It seems irrelevant to me. I look at this way. Every other class is able to use their own skills on and for themselves. Therefore, it's only logical and fair that we should be able to do the same.
NullTensor wrote:
You're comparing apples and oranges.
nulltensor
Master Fool
*** spelling correction ***
Message Edited by NullTensor on 09-18-2004 06:13 AM
Kreistor
Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:03 am
#13
NullTensor wrote:I think you greatly underestimate the time required to gather resources and craft enhancement packs.
nulltensor
Master Fool
I don't think so. From what I remember (since I was a doc), it takes about two minutes to buy the resources needed from the person that actually collected them for me
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