Dancer Archive
Thread: How can I practice my profession any longer?!
While I believe that ALL professions are harmed in some degree by the holocrons, the dancing and musician professionshave been utterly destroyed by them. There now remains no place for me to practice my proffession with dignity.
I went to the Coronet cantina to do some dancing, and asked for an invite to the group. Here's the chat log:
You tell Aseurada, 'Can Mor'heru and I get invited to your group if we disband ours?'.
Aseurada tells you, 'We don't have room at the moment =/'.
You reply to Aseurada, 'If any of your members are afk-macroing, could you bump them to make room?'.
Aseurada tells you, 'Sorry. They wouldn't do that to me. When we have room I'll let you know.'.
You reply to Aseurada, 'Aseurada, I've been a dancer and entertainer since launch. I'm here to be a real, live entertainer the way the devs intended. It's always been understood that AFK entertainers get bumped to make room for the live players. Are you going to keep AFK macroers in your group and not make room for live entertainers?!'.
You reply to Aseurada, 'Hello? Are you a real entertainer or a holo-tourist'.
Aseurada tells you, 'I'm not into being bullied by anyone, that's what I am. There are other groups, and I won't argue with you about how to run yours.'.
So now it's to the point where real, live entertainers aren't even welcome in the group if it prevents a holo-tourist, AFK-macro drone from grinding a profession he has no interest in playing.
Does SOE see the poisonous hatred that's building up between the holo-tourists and those of us that pay to play? How far can this go on?
Here's how I see it. There are two kinds of players. There are the power-leveling uber-grinders that are going to move on the the next game as soon as they have no more skill boxes to fill - whether they're jedi or not. Then there's the more mature role-players and socializers that would stick around for years, paying their $15/mo and enjoying themselves if the online community wasn't being ripped apart by this holocron business. A few months ago, I read the "Holocrons are destroying the game" posts as a little bit melodramatic, now I have to agree.
There will be a slow trickle of new players coming to the game, but SWG has 90% of the players it's ever going to have right now. the survey on warcry.com says that about 47% of all players are holo-grinding to be jedi. Once all the jedi-wannabes have got their precious FS slot, then the cantinas will belong to the entertainers again. I vow that I will /denyservice to EVERY jedi, regardless of faction or guild, regardless if he/she's my best friend in the game. You (jedi) helped ruin my profession, and I'll be damned if I'll ever help you or serve you in any fashion!
I nearly surrendered all my dancing skills tonight - and nearly cancelled my account. But then the holo-crums win. I am going to fight for my profession and address this issue ruthlessly in-game and on the forums until perhaps SOE has to ban me, because I would have just quit otherwise anyway.
I've come to the same conclusion a couple months after launch. So far it hasn't paid off, but we'll see.
Faellyn wrote:
I nearly surrendered all my dancing skills tonight - and nearly cancelled my account. But then the holo-crums win. I am going to fight for my profession and address this issue ruthlessly in-game and on the forums until perhaps SOE has to ban me, because I would have just quit otherwise anyway.
I really hate when I write something long and fun, and the boards eat it up with big tasty gulps. Regrettably, this is the short version
Faellyn -
I feel your pain. It's frustrating to go to your old hangouts and find nobody, or afk-ers. It's annoying to have to "plan" to get together with other entertainers that you know, just so you can be assured to have a decent time.
Needless to say, if you want to organize something for those of us who are frustrated with the current state of events, I'm more than happy to help, and you can count me in. We're not alone, just yesterday a master dancer posted on the Scylla boards about starting an entertainment group and was met by general troll nonsense. The interested parties are out there, though perhaps not as many as we'd like. You have a lot of clout in the server - if you plan an event at a well-known player town, I bet people would come.
Ultimately, I hate "planning" but that's the only way I have a good time entertaining lately. I participate in "Ladies night" on saturdays in a town in which I have my satellite store. The boys dance in their hot pants and I play in the band. Yes, it's once a week, and it's a small event, but people are at the keyboard, chatting it up, having a fun time. I guess if the chatting and fun doesn't happen in entertainer pickup groups in the npc cantinas anymore, we just have to plan actual events ourselves, which can be frustrating, and it's not the way it used to be, but might be a solution for this difficult time.
what else to say that y agree1000000%
as a master dancer (reached the title without being AFK, never, besides short naturally one 
), i am now dancing ....let's say .... 1 hour per week ?
SOE claims in the message about the banning, they want the fun for all the players ... what about the fun of the "real" entertainers ???? they spoilt it with the holos and the AFK macroing system they have developped.
thanks SOE.
(nevermind, they'll never read my post, and i'm sure us real dancer don't interest them ... whan you see the size of the scene in city cantinas and theatre...when you see the dances and flourishes ...when you see the falls , even as a master.
last question for SOE : WHY have you created the profession of entertainer ? when you see what you have made of it ..... )
sorry, i'm angry
Very well said Faellyn, I could not agree more. It disgusts me what Holocrons have done to the game. I visited the Theed Cantina on Corbantis a few days ago and the place has turned into a circus or holotainers and AFK people, I couldn't believe the amount of people jammed in there, and I think about 5-10 out of the easily 50 people where not AFK. Needless to say I went to find somewhere a little more quiet, hehe.
I think I'll send your post to a few Devs.. not that I think anything will come of it, but it doesn't hurt to remind them just what their system and lack of action to fix it is doing to the game.
Try to remember the one good thing tho, as you said, eventually all these people will have their FSCS, then the majority of these AFK people will go away. I also think we're more likely to get action taken on the AFK issues once changes to them won't have the thousands of holo-grinders going nuts on the Devs which would happen if they tried it now. When almost everyone is done with the grind in a month or two things should get considerably better... but the problem wont' be gone completely. 
After the insanity of the Holo Craz tho.. I'd be thrilled to see things the way they where before it started. 
(which is sorta sad I guess)
((Faellyn -
I am the master dancer n'Jessi mentioned. Please feel free to email me anytime, and we can see what we might put together, or maybe we can talk here. I hate to clutter the dancer boards with server specific stuff, but when I wrote on the server boards, my post dropped like a rock. No one cares about master dancers, and the two uses our server community could think of for a master dancer as a response to my post are placing a city cantina, and as a sex object. I won't try on the Scylla forum again.
SOE, is this what you intended? Did you really mean for a master profession to be almost completely worthless, and even worse for the people who haven't mastered it yet, and actually want to *play* it, as opposed to AFK grind it? No other professions are being devastated as completely as the entertainer professions by AFK botting, but I haven't even seen a developer response to our concerns, much less any empathy that they understand this is making the professions completely un-fun for those of us that actually wanted to be dancers, musicians, and entertainers.
Tell me, if combat professions could AFK grind this efficiently, and combat AFK grinding was so widespread, would it have been ignored so long? Would it at least have been acknowledged?))
YoursTruly wrote:
((Faellyn -
SOE, is this what you intended? Did you really mean for a master profession to be almost completely worthless, and even worse for the people who haven't mastered it yet, and actually want to *play* it, as opposed to AFK grind it? No other professions are being devastated as completely as the entertainer professions by AFK botting, but I haven't even seen a developer response to our concerns, much less any empathy that they understand this is making the professions completely un-fun for those of us that actually wanted to be dancers, musicians, and entertainers.
Tell me, if combat professions could AFK grind this efficiently, and combat AFK grinding was so widespread, would it have been ignored so long? Would it at least have been acknowledged?))
This question has been weighing heavily on my mind as well. We've heard absolutely nothing that even acknowledges this as a problem, despite the fact that the current state of the profession is a direct contradiction to the entertainer professions as described in the late stages of beta.
I'd really just like a clear-cut answer from a developer in a position of real authority: is this the way it's going to be, or is there going to be a decisive change? If this is the way it's going to be, I'll cut my losses and move on to an MMO that has something social to offer me. If things are going to change, I'll grit my teeth and hold on for a little while longer. My fear is that it's the former, and nobody's made an official statement because they want us to cling to that elusive flicker of hope and hold onto our accounts. I hope I'm wrong. I really really do. I loved the entertainer professions at launch. They're an utter disappointment now.
Draw your own conclusions.
- J
i suggest going to the cantina's in the city's that arent as busy as theed or coronet. not as many people running through, and not as many entertainers, but it works.
too bad there isnt a way that we could get all entertainers to stop entertaining as a whole, including the afk'ers, and thus making it impossible to heal mind wounds, and battle fatigue. the general population would get angry, and thus causing some actions to be taken. but that is a darastic measure, and i doubt it will ever happen.
but anyways arent jedi supposed to be nearly extinct except for a very, very few. now if the 47% (or however many people are holo grinding)of the game population unlock the jedi slot wont the fact thatthe jediare being hunted, or being nearly eradicated, become pointless? unless of coursealarge percentagethe people that are holo grinding are doing it for nothing and wont unlock their jedi slot untill they take the time to master each and every single profession, or do something other than grinding professions to get jedi.
Jedi are also supposed to be living personifications of patience, selflessness, peace, humility and honor.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*wheeze*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*wipes a tear*
I'd say we've already strayed pretty far from the script in terms of Jedi already, may as well also have a whole slew of them at this point.
- J
You said it.
picklesSW wrote:
"but anyways arent jedi supposed to be nearly extinct except for a very, very few. now if the 47% (or however many people are holo grinding)of the game population unlock the jedi slot wont the fact thatthe jediare being hunted, or being nearly eradicated, become pointless?"
Jedi are also supposed to be living personifications of patience, selflessness, peace, humility and honor.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*wheeze*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*wipes a tear*
I'd say we've already strayed pretty far from the script in terms of Jedi already, may as well also have a whole slew of them at this point.
- J
Thats what I've been thinking as well, lol. LOL. You guys are so misguided. Do you not understand that the one good thing about holocrons is that they expose people to different aspects of the game, and they may find something they enjoy?
Would it be better for everyone to be bored out of their skull due to lack of content and just quit SWG? I am sorry but tell me again how that benefits you. Do you want to be the only one online dancing in an empty cantina?
The only 2 issues there are that I can admit are valid issues regarding holo-tainers or afk-tainers are:
1) Lag. But then is lag really that much of an issue in a cantina? It takes me 30 seconds to just get into the Coronet cantina but once I am in, at worst there is a minimal chat delay usually not even that.
2) Rude entertainers. If an afk/holo-tainer is spamming for heals and tips or doing other stupid stuff with their macro then your problem is with the rudeness of the player, not the fact that the player is afk, because if that player was ATK, they would be spamming even worse remarks because they would be forced to watch the screen in misery and it would take them 3 times as long to master and leave the profession.
As for "earning" the xp? Please. Its almost like saying a marksman doesn't "earn" his xp by using special attacks to kill things or using a good pistol over the starter CDEF pistol. Or apples to apples its like someone soloing their way to master dancer being mad at someone who was in 20 person groups saying they did not "earn" it? Its a foolish argument. If someone uses a valid function that is in the game and legal (which many think it is not... but it is) why should they be the target of your animosity? Hate the DEVS if you do not like the way things function in the game, not the person using game mechanics and legitimate functions to his/her advantage.
For those of you who are upset you cant get into the afk-groups.... are you hypocrites?!? You should not WANT to be in a group full of zombies! You should seek out the pure entertainers, who are in it more for the fun than the xp anyway, and make a group of ATK entertainers, who can still socialize with patrons or choregraph dances or play cool songs and still have your enjoyment of the game. A group comprised of 90% afkers is not a group you should want to be in anyway.
People should not worry so much about what everyone else is doing and worry about themselves and their enjoyment. The afkers and holotainers tend to congregate in Coronet and Theed supposedly on most servers (I know I do). So perform somewhere else? Most people who are hunting for xp and actually need an entertainer to soothe their mind a bit are on Dantooine and Dathomir. Newer players or more casual players probably are not going to linger in a place that is packed because they are lost. I would bet you could find those people around Mos Eisley, since that was the big Tatooine city in Star Wars.
And as for afk grinding combat professions.. well... people have done it. You can make macros that auto target and obviously use specials, sit to med, use stims to heal wounds, you name it. I heard CH can be completely macroed as you do some kind of /nexttarget or something I really do not know how it works, then use your normal /say kill macro to have your rancor kill the gnorts or whatever. Now if I work hard to get to Master Creature Handler, do I have any reason to hate the guy who macros his way there? Does it somehow hamper my ability or make me any weaker?
Sorry guys I really just dont understand all the hatred.
- Broog
The thing is, that for power-levelers, grinding IS the only thing they know how to do. They never stop to think about what they'd want to do with their time AFTER they reach master, or jedi, or whatever.
What happens when they reach that goal that they've grinded, and power-leveled, but never actually played? They don't know what to do anymore, because there's no more skill boxes to fill, and they scream that there's no content.
Have the jedi-slaves thought about what the game will be like when half of all the players on the server are jedi? They won't be special or uber. What will happen is they'll be tired of grinding, scream about the lack of content with a "now what," and cancel their accounts for WoW or FFXI, or whatever the next new game is so they can start the power-leveling all over again.
SWG is going to eventually count on the loyalty of the long-term players who login for socializing and fun, and don't pay so much attention to XP. IF we've already left because our professions were destroyed by holocrons....