Dancer Archive
Thread: Fighting Back Buff Bots Any Suggestions?
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leekoehler
Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:03 am
#1
I'm new to the Dancer forum, so I'm not quite up to date on what the community thinks about AFK bot buffers. Me, I hate em. I think they hurt the profession... My heart sinks when ppl walk right past master.. newb.. or any alive entertainer..taking tips and entertainer healing Xp away from the larger group. Look, I know its hard to find buffs when you need them. I know getting ready for combat takes forever, but live entertainers are just that.. LIVE, real people who have chosen to level up a character to provide you a service.
Anyways, what can dancers do to combat buff bots?
I greet everyone I can who walks into the cantina. If they walk right past my Master Dancer, I one up it with a /smile and a spatial comment about watching grouped entertainers before using a buff bot. They don't have to use my service, but acknowledging the fact that someone communicated with them would be nice.
But what do you do to convince the cantina to pass up the bot and choose a live entertainer? Suggestions? If buff bots are more effecient and all we have is that social element (thanks SOE for making AFKing supported by mechanics, no really thanks./rolleyes) than what are your strategies for getting attention.
Also, I took a break from dancing (due to buff bot rage /wink) and came back to find very few master dancers in the larger ent groups. Is it normal for buffers (AFK or not) to run their own isolated groups? I dont like taking xp away from folks, have customers become so impatient they can't wait 3 measly min to be buffed? Am I totally clueless here? lol
Anyways, what can dancers do to combat buff bots?
I greet everyone I can who walks into the cantina. If they walk right past my Master Dancer, I one up it with a /smile and a spatial comment about watching grouped entertainers before using a buff bot. They don't have to use my service, but acknowledging the fact that someone communicated with them would be nice.
But what do you do to convince the cantina to pass up the bot and choose a live entertainer? Suggestions? If buff bots are more effecient and all we have is that social element (thanks SOE for making AFKing supported by mechanics, no really thanks./rolleyes) than what are your strategies for getting attention.
Also, I took a break from dancing (due to buff bot rage /wink) and came back to find very few master dancers in the larger ent groups. Is it normal for buffers (AFK or not) to run their own isolated groups? I dont like taking xp away from folks, have customers become so impatient they can't wait 3 measly min to be buffed? Am I totally clueless here? lol
-Devil-
Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:17 am
#2
find out what cantina on your server the ATK (at the keyboard) entertainers use ... there is normaly a good sized group of ones that are dedicated to showing the advantages to having ATK entertainers ... and will do what they can to keep the cantina they pick clean of the afk spam ...
i have a dancer C ... and though sometimes i do have to go afk due to work ... i dont spam ... when i am there though it is much much better .. and most customers enjoy having someone there that can talk to them ...
most of the AFK people including the buff bots .. have the /join command in their macro so they can automatically get into a group if someone invites them ... then normally who ever the leader is goes afk as well ...
Drygo
Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:36 am
#3
Hehe...well, this post is proof positive that there are others (probably many) master dancers and musicians who go in game and are well aware of how sucky the buffbots are, and this anger is not just snowballing "forum rage." 
Since you're new to these forums, FYI, there have been approximately 1000 threads in the past few months talking about the scourge of the buffbots. 99% of us hate them too. Welcome to the dancerforums
I won't lie to you. It's extraordinarily difficult to compete with buffbots. Even when there's not a buffbot in the Cantina that you are in, the fact is, there are hundreds of them across the various servers, and people know where they are. Even the player city buffbots have put a huge dent into our economic viability because they're still taking away the business from a live entertainer, it doesn't matter where they are. People have gotten so conditioned to buffbots that only an extremely small percentage of people actually look anymore for live entertainers. And, those that do are few and far between. It's not at all unusual to have 5 paying customers or less over the course of 2 or 3 hours. It's a sad state of affairs.
One of the problems is that a lot of players don't see this as a problem. To be sure, most of the entertainers do. However, there is a large percentage of other types of players who basically have the attitude, "I want to be catered to at all times possible, everywhere," and fail to recognize the human equation behind the problem. They don't care about us, they'll walk right by us, or hop the first shuttle to the player city or Cantina where they know there's a buffbot, and don't bother to even try to find us anymore. It's gotten completely out of hand, and in my mind, there's only one way to fix it. And, that's developer intervention. I have tried almost every trick in the book, from standing right next to the bot, disabling the bot, spamming like crazy, making sure I knew how to buff quickas possible, trying to have reasonable conversations and encourage people to seek out live entertainers, actively participating and reading planet chat, auction chat, and our server's entertainer chat to find people who need buffs. None of it works.
So, this is what I do...I continue to complain as loudly as possible, support the end of the recursive macro, and if there are still buffbots when the recursive macro is gone, I will continue to complain loudly and incessantly until the buffbots are gone, or we are made viable.
Message Edited by Drygo on 08-23-2004 08:39 AM
Ikewe
Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:46 am
#4
We recently held a Cantina Crawl on Shadowfire and I learned something rather interesting about our combat player base. Although they are accustomed to seeing each other wearing the exact same composite armor they were literally stopped in their tracks upon entering the cantina and seeing dancers and musicians wearing matching outfits and performing together. You might try that in addition to the meet and greet. We won't be able to divert all the robot users. Heck maybe not even the majority. But I'm sure we can convince a few people that entertainers can be a lot more fun than robots.
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
Reachwind
Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:50 am
#5
Honestly at this point I think the only thing you can really do to "combat" AFK buff bots is run an invite macro and stand next to them or setup in a different cantina and cross your fingers that enough role players, new players and fellow ATK entertainers playing as combat altswill come to you for service.
Devika
Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:11 am
#6
Hi Jao! I feel the same way that you do but I've come to the conclusion that there are 2 types of people who are looking for buffs:
The ones you don't want to bother with anyways and the ones who will drop the buffbot in an instant just for your charming interaction.
I watch people constantly ignore my group (even though I stand there with a Master Dancer tag, playing my music, chit chatting with friends) and run to the buffbot simply because they don't want to waste time seeking out an ATK entertainer. But that's ok!
The people who do look for an ATK dancer or musician are the most fun, best tippers and biggest supporters.
What can we do about buffbots?
Nothing.
If they spam, add them to the ignore list. Don't slam them or make snide comments about how you are an ATK entertainer and not a measely buffbot. Just completely 100% ignore them.
You want to focus all your attention on you having fun and on your customers anyways.
I ventured to the Mining Outpost on Dantooine one day, one of the biggest BuffBot locations and ya know, in 3 hours I made 150k and met some really great people. The best part is, I don't charge for buffs. If you can afford to and want to, go for it! If you choose not to, that's ok too! My role is to be an entertainer and have fun, credits are the least of my concerns.
So in closing, just keep doing what you are doing, ignore the buffbots because you AREATK and what you say and do will be remembered, not the cartoon that isn't saying anything besides "Invite me to your group if you want a buff" and just have fun! 
Maryja
Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:14 am
#7
Ikewe wrote:
We recently held a Cantina Crawl on Shadowfire and I learned something rather interesting about our combat player base. Although they are accustomed to seeing each other wearing the exact same composite armor they were literally stopped in their tracks upon entering the cantina and seeing dancers and musicians wearing matching outfits and performing together. You might try that in addition to the meet and greet. We won't be able to divert all the robot users. Heck maybe not even the majority. But I'm sure we can convince a few people that entertainers can be a lot more fun than robots.
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
I think the idea of organized groups has alot of merit. Coordinated music and dancing, matching outfits, special effects, etc... I don't think being just another Twi'lek in a revealing fleshwrap cuts it for entertainment these days. Another important apsect to the orginized group apporach is a trusted person to collect tips. I think players would be much more interested in tipping a large group if they could just tip a single person. The tips could then be divided up at the end of the night. Of course this all takes a good group of talented and trustworthy players that have the dedication to pull it off on a regular basis.
It won't defeat buffbots, but at least it'll stand a chance to attract some customers who are mesmerized by the shock and awe of the perforance when they were expecting to see wall to wall AFKers dancing in thier undies.
IrinaStarsinger
Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:16 am
#8
Devika said:
I watch people constantly ignore my group (even though I stand there with a Master Dancer tag, playing my music, chit chatting with friends) and run to the buffbot simply because they don't want to waste time seeking out an ATK entertainer. But that's ok!
-------------------------------------------------------
Devika I'm not picking on you but what you said there brings up a couple points. And I see this all the time so Im really not pointing a finger at you.
CHIT CHATTING WITH FRIENDS. When I'm dancing i OFTEN see other entertainers so busy chatting in Group that they dont really HAVE time to talk to the Customers. Or they do so in a half hearted way. I dont talk in group or chat when Im dancing. I normally dont even keep windows Open for group or Chat casue i dont want to be distracted.
SEEKING OUT AN ATK ENTERTAINER: Well.... they dont HAVE to seek us out. Not with a buffbot handy and nearby. So it behooves US to seek THEM out. Simply being in the cantina and dancing or playing is NOT enough. They need an Incentive to come to us. I make it a point to provide MORE value to the people coming in than the buffbot can. I work hard at attracting their attention, holding their attention and engaging them. If a Customer ignores me.....I figure thats MY fault, not Theirs. Becasue it means Im not doing enough to ATTRACT their attention and hold it. Hitting /startdane and then a flourish macro AINT enough and never HAS been.
We inhabit a Textual world where communication is all typed words. If you can't engage their minds and their interest with your words then Dont expect to do it with a gyrating toon. Its not ABOUT buffing. Its about Entertianing.
To be honest, I never really felt much one way or the other about buffbots. Their uffing never really bothered me that much. The only thing that DID was the SPAM from them and the AFK dancers. Why? Simply because it made CONVERSATION impossible in Spatial. As long as I can Tak to customers I have no problem competing with buffbots.I can STILL make a decent living even without buffing.
leekoehler
Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:17 am
#9
Great post Devika. I think you are right. The reason, i think , a lot of folks get up in arms about buff bots is that we care about the profession. I enjoy being a dancer, its what I like to do. Instead of worrying about what other peopel do with it, I should think more about just having fun.
Tandava
Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:27 am
#10
Maryja wrote:
I think the idea of organized groups has alot of merit. Coordinated music and dancing, matching outfits, special effects, etc... I don't think being just another Twi'lek in a revealing fleshwrap cuts it for entertainment these days. Another important apsect to the orginized group apporach is a trusted person to collect tips. I think players would be much more interested in tipping a large group if they could just tip a single person. The tips could then be divided up at the end of the night. Of course this all takes a good group of talented and trustworthy players that have the dedication to pull it off on a regular basis.
It won't defeat buffbots, but at least it'll stand a chance to attract some customers who are mesmerized by the shock and awe of the perforance when they were expecting to see wall to wall AFKers dancing in thier undies.
Even long time users seem to forget there ISa band tip command that works. Even tried it recently.
/splitcreditswithgroup [xxxxx amount[
All they have to do is target someone in the group and it divides through
We'll be trying some cantina crawls where you hit Theed or Coronet in uniforms to match and do a few sets for an hour or so. I think its a marvelous idea. Good possibility for tailors too.
Ikewe
Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:31 am
#11
Even long time users seem to forget there ISa band tip command that works. Even tried it recently.
/splitcreditswithgroup [xxxxx amount[
GAH! I had no idea this command existed. Thanks much. This will definitely make splitting tips with fellow entertainers a lot easier.
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
Drygo
Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:03 pm
#12
On kettemoor, I generally use this command:
/splitcreditswithgroupbutdrygogetsseventyfivepercentandtheremainingtwentyfivepercentisdividedamongeveryonesle *amount*
Devika
Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:46 pm
#13
IrinaStarsinger wrote:
Devika said:
I watch people constantly ignore my group (even though I stand there with a Master Dancer tag, playing my music, chit chatting with friends) and run to the buffbot simply because they don't want to waste time seeking out an ATK entertainer. But that's ok!
-------------------------------------------------------
Devika I'm not picking on you but what you said there brings up a couple points. And I see this all the time so Im really not pointing a finger at you.
CHIT CHATTING WITH FRIENDS. When I'm dancing i OFTEN see other entertainers so busy chatting in Group that they dont really HAVE time to talk to the Customers. Or they do so in a half hearted way. I dont talk in group or chat when Im dancing. I normally dont even keep windows Open for group or Chat casue i dont want to be distracted.
SEEKING OUT AN ATK ENTERTAINER: Well.... they dont HAVE to seek us out. Not with a buffbot handy and nearby. So it behooves US to seek THEM out. Simply being in the cantina and dancing or playing is NOT enough. They need an Incentive to come to us. I make it a point to provide MORE value to the people coming in than the buffbot can. I work hard at attracting their attention, holding their attention and engaging them. If a Customer ignores me.....I figure thats MY fault, not Theirs. Becasue it means Im not doing enough to ATTRACT their attention and hold it. Hitting /startdane and then a flourish macro AINT enough and never HAS been.
We inhabit a Textual world where communication is all typed words. If you can't engage their minds and their interest with your words then Dont expect to do it with a gyrating toon. Its not ABOUT buffing. Its about Entertianing.
To be honest, I never really felt much one way or the other about buffbots. Their uffing never really bothered me that much. The only thing that DID was the SPAM from them and the AFK dancers. Why? Simply because it made CONVERSATION impossible in Spatial. As long as I can Tak to customers I have no problem competing with buffbots.I can STILL make a decent living even without buffing.
Ah, youmake very goodpoints here, guess I wasn't too clear in mypost. I agree 100% Be different and be creative! As a friend pointed out, it's nice to see someone who isn't Blue Twi'lek with large bust, small waist #363904 doing Exotic 4 in a black exotic leotard.
**please, do not takeoffense if you are a large breasted small waisted blue twi'lek, just was quoting what she said!**
I also make it a habit not to use group chat unless it's pertaining to the group only. As far as chit chatting with friends, this isn't necessarily the people in my group, but people who stop into the cantina. We have so many people coming into the cantina and we tend to have so many ATK entertainers that saying hello to each and every customer gets a bit overwhelming so we make it a more generalized friendly welcoming. *group hug* lol
As someone else pointed out,the ATK entertainers group together and do things that are very much entertaining. Simple things like chorographing a routine and everyone use the same macro (would love to use band flo all the time but unfortunately, there's that whole people-need-xp thing) This does help a lot and people who are not "Buffbot Trained" are drawn to us.
I personally take no responsibility if someone is not satisfied with my entertaining skills. Many people have many different ideas on what they deem entertaining, just can't please everyone.
I think we stress too hard about trying to capture and entertain our customers. If we relax, have fun, be polite, don't beg, don't mock the afk spammersor the buffbots, we present ourselves in a positive mannerwhich in turn causes us to be sought after.
**But again, this is coming from someone who does not care about the financial aspect of the game, but the social aspect, may not work for everyone**
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