Dancer Archive
Thread: Reasons behind the 2 minute dead time added to buffing?
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Xyrdre
Fri Apr 23, 2004 1:56 pm
#1
Before getting too worked up about an additional 2 minutes of dead time before buffing begins, I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this change.
Panthu, Tiaga...you've had some measure of success with pretty quick responses from THlately. Has anyone asked what the devs' reasoning was behind this? If not yet, could either ofyou try to gain some insight as to the devs thought processes here?
Yes, it seems that a 15 second delay after /stopdance alone will correct the 30 second buff. The widespread assumption on the boards seems to be that the 2 minute dead time is also meant to defeat the 30 second buff, but that it is unnecessary overkill on the system that hurts even "legitimate" entertainer buffs.
I am willing to admit that there may be some other part to this story that I/we haven't yetconsidered that necessitates a 2 minute buff buffer (now that's an odd, but appropriate term!). If this is true, and we discover what the 2 minute dead time is actually fixing, that may change the overall opinion somewhat, barring of course those who feel there should be no time involved at all. In other words, if this change is actually doing something positive, I think we need to really understand what that is. I still don't see the angle of how the dead time improves things for entertainers... and request enlightenment as to the reasoning by the devs before either supporting or condemning the action.
Mabako
Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:51 pm
#2
I don't know of any reasons for it, but I'm against it 
I don't have any "good" reasons for being against it, I just am...
Panthu
Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:54 pm
#3
TH did an awesome job of responding on this... the only reason why we don't have a quote was because I am unclear on his intructions... but...
... new Dev info on this has just been posted in the corr forum... give us a bit to get an ok for a quote. 
Panthu
Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:23 pm
#4
Ok, I still don't have an OK on a quote, but I think I am safe to explain the reason. 
The reason for the dead time is to avoid any future attempts at exploitation. The Devs feel like this is a safe guard that will protect our buffing process from ever being misused in the future. The safe guard is on the watcher and not on the Dancer's buffing. Meaning, we still buff exactly the same, but the watcher must have two full minutes of uninterupted watching before a buff will start to be applied.
The dead time is there, it just isn't on our side. This does not, I repeat, does not mean that any buff is building during that two minute time period. You will now have to add a full two minutes to your timing and take great care to explain to the buffee that if they stopwatching during the first two minutes, they will have to wait another full two minutes to start building up a buff again. It does reset.
There is currently no plan to change this fix.
Niza
Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:37 pm
#5
Panthu wrote:
Ok, I still don't have an OK on a quote, but I think I am safe to explain the reason.
The reason for the dead time is to avoid any future attempts at exploitation. The Devs feel like this is a safe guard that will protect our buffing process from ever being misused in the future. The safe guard is on the watcher and not on the Dancer's buffing. Meaning, we still buff exactly the same, but the watcher must have two full minutes of uninterupted watching before a buff will start to be applied.
The dead time is there, it just isn't on our side. This does not, I repeat, does not mean that any buff is building during that two minute time period. You will now have to add a full two minutes to your timing and take great care to explain to the buffee that if they stopwatching during the first two minutes, they will have to wait another full two minutes to start building up a buff again. It does reset.
There is currently no plan to change this fix.
Like I said in a previous post. They are forcing entertainers tpo be a time sink. Please thank the developers in advance for helping to force entertainers even further into obscurity.
rebus_ks
Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:59 pm
#6
Panthu wrote:The safe guard is on the watcher and not on the Dancer's buffing. Meaning, we still buff exactly the same, but the watcher must have two full minutes of uninterupted watching before a buff will start to be applied.
I fail to see the difference between the player having to watch a dancer/listen to a musician for two minutes before the buff starting, and making buffs take two minutes longer to apply. I don't like the idea of 30 second buffs, and I believe that PoetDancer is right in that if we do a good job the time passes very quickly. At the same time an extra two minutes is an extra two minutes. That might not seem so bad to many entertainers, but many clients believe that getting buffs is a necessary waste of time that they could be using much better to kill things. There are many alternatives to mind buffs on the market, and they have instant affects. The longer buffs take, the more the alternatives will be used, that's just simple economics.
Saying that this is a restriction on the client rather than the performer is utter tripe. It is a restriction on the performer only.
Panthu
Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:30 pm
#7
Take this with a grain of salt. This is not an official quote, only my understanding as it has been explained to me. My tests confirm this is how it is working now on test. It is fully possible that I am misunderstanding what has been explained to me and the buffs are supposed to be building duration during the first two minutes of watching.
I am bugging it even though my current understanding is that this is intended. We won't know for sure until we have an official quote or it goes live.
I'm sorry I can't do better than that, I have explained all of our concerns if this is working as intended like I currently believe... if it isn't, then yay!
It's on Test Center... prepare for it, but stay calm. I'm still testing it too. This is what testing is for.
As soon as I get an approved quote, I will share it. Until then, expect some confusion. Watch the Dev tracker too, they may post on the public boards before giving the Corrs a quote.
Drygo
Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:02 am
#8
Maybe the coding or whatever is only on the client's side. But, that doesn't really matter, it still takes an extra two minutes. It affects us just as much as it affects the client. I don't see how this explanation makes things the slightest bit better.
I am extremely disappointed in the devs for instituting something like this. I'm generally one of their biggest supporters, but I think this is absolutely ridiculous. This doesn't really even prevent future exploits. It just means that if someone figures out another 30 second exploit it will take 2 minutes and 30 seconds. If they really want us to take ten minutes to do this, they might as well have added on an extra 10 minutes lol. Not that I'm trying to give them any ideas, mind you.
And, how nice that we have to explain yet one more thing to our clients besides telling them how to watch and stopwatch and explaining the original way timing worked, and explaining that they see no effects of the buff until they're done, etc. People get confused and frustrated already. heh
Why? Why?! Why make us appear even more useless and a pain in the butt than we're already perceived to be? This ranks right up there with the hologrind in terms of annoyance and stupidity. If it weren't for the fact that I want those master dances, I'd just drop the other three trees already and use my skill points on something else.
I mean, it just makes no sense to me in a game where afk, macros, and consequently not actually "playing" the game to get where you want to be is encouraged by the devs, that they are instituting something as asinine as this to make our gameplay and income even harder than it already is.
Message Edited by Drygo on 04-24-2004 01:05 AM
Elhana
Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:10 am
#10
What I wonder is why they didn't turn it around the other way. Make it so you must buff for 2 minutes before the client can /stopwatch to actually gain the buff. That way they could set the minimum buff time at whatever they liked.
Cry4Dawn
Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:22 am
#11
How about dropping mind buffs to 2 mins and forgeting all this bs.. 8 mins to do a mind buff is horrible
Groovymarlin
Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:43 am
#12
This is really discouraging. And guess what? On my server, the entertainers are getting blamed for this. The non-entertainer players are taking the stance that all us "whiney anti-AFK people" caused the devs to do this.
It's really just about enough to make me drop dancer, or quit all together.
Electro
Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:55 pm
#13
I don't want to sound like an apologist, because I do dislike the added time... a lot. However, the fact that it is on the client side is actually substantially better. This means if you are group buffing people can come and go as they need to, the onus is on them when to watch/stopwatch as opposed to us having to pay attention to one person at a time. Does that make sense? I am not sure I am explaining it the right way. It's better than it could have been, but still thumbs WAY WAY DOWN to adding yet more time to our buffs.
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