Dancer Archive
Thread: Get off the dance floor! SWG Dancer Wish and OT RL Rant
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Panthu
Sun Jul 31, 2005 8:23 pm
#1
/start rl rant
Ok, so last night we went out to a club I haven't been to in years. It was hosted by a promotion group whose parties I used to love, so I thought it would be a good event. It was, kind of... I had my picture taken a lot because I was the only one there dressed like a freak (not on purpose, we were supposed to be going to a different kind of club when I got dressed 
) ... the dj was good (bad transitions but mostly on) but omg I the crowd was awful!
) ... the dj was good (bad transitions but mostly on) but omg I the crowd was awful!There were sooooo many idiots just standing on the dance floor! I have no problem with dancing on a crowded floor, I like a packed club, but half of these people were just standing and talking! This is incredibly annoying considering that this club has four other areas just for talking.
Anyway, I'm not going back there. A dance club that can't be bothered to keep the floor for dancing isn't going to get my freakin' $20 again.
/end rl rant
This got me thinking about the whole Dancer floor space issue. I know I can't stop any fool with no talent from taking up the floor and I don't want to, I support bad dancers getting their groove on and having fun even in real life... but I do want to keep some jerk from coming and sitting on a Dancer or a zombie doing formal drifting all over the place.
Personal Dance spots would make the most sense if we didn't have so many traveling dances, but since we do I think a stage area is the only thing that would work. It needs to be an area that can't be entered at all unless you're an Ent and it needs to be cleared fairly often so everybody can have a chance at it. Troupes need to be able to sign up for the spot so they can do a real rehearsed sync performance.
This actually might be a good way to get in a quasi meta-group mechanic too. Everyone on the stage area could be considered one group just while they share the stage and could use band flourishes for all 20 people or however many are allowed at once.
So, I'm back to the NPC Stage Manager idea. What says the Dancer forum?
Edit: Ha! I can't believe none of you told me I had a typo in the title! 
Message Edited by Panthu on 08-02-2005 05:51 PM
Tralmek
Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:26 pm
#2
Panthu wrote:
What says the Dancer forum?
I say "What kind of club were you getting dressed for?" 
Reachwind
Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:59 pm
#4
What benefit does it give the dancers and the most importantly the audience?
It seems to me that you already have the atmosphere you want. Player city cantinas. Each master dancer has the ability to purchase or be given a private cantina which they can place and use for their personal stage. Even having the ability to kick or ban people that get in the way on their stages. I really don't see a way you could add this to public cantinas that would make it fun or fair to any dancer. It might be fun to a certain kind of dancer, yes, but I think it's only a small part of the total dancer community that is interested in that type of performance.
It seems to me that you already have the atmosphere you want. Player city cantinas. Each master dancer has the ability to purchase or be given a private cantina which they can place and use for their personal stage. Even having the ability to kick or ban people that get in the way on their stages. I really don't see a way you could add this to public cantinas that would make it fun or fair to any dancer. It might be fun to a certain kind of dancer, yes, but I think it's only a small part of the total dancer community that is interested in that type of performance.
Panthu
Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:15 am
#5
The little area in between the front steps and the bar has always been the unofficial "dance floor." Usually the only people that wander into that area are afk dancers who won't go to the side rooms (which islike, uh, all of them since winter 03/04), noob patrons who don't know any better, and non-ent griefers who do know better but want to get in dancers' way.
I'm just talking about making it the official dance floor.The original mind buffs were supposed to take 20 minutes to reach full duration, so the original time planned for a patron to watch a dancer was about 20 mins. Going by that, we could say each set should be 20 mins long.
Levelers would go sign up for each 20 min set where they would dance with the "dance floor group" which would just be like a pick up group of who ever signed up. Once every 3 sets or so, an option can come up for a troupe performance where a troupe could lock down the floor for a whole set just for themselves.
Displacing levelers once everyhour doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me, plus it would add a lot of atmosphere to the cantinas. If no troupe signs up, then that set would just work as a normal pick up group, just adding people as they signed up.
This doesn't really do anything to patrons at all sincethe normal thing is for them to not even walk in the "dance floor" area anyway. This would just make something official for them that has been around forever.
Warryyr
Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:53 am
#6
I like it. An NPC Stage Manager would be a good thing, if done right. So long as it had some anti-griefing built into it. I don't want to see people kicking other people around the cantina, just for laughs.
Reachwind
Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:02 am
#7
Panthu wrote:
Levelers would go sign up for each 20 min set where they would dance with the "dance floor group" which would just be like a pick up group of who ever signed up. Once every 3 sets or so, an option can come up for a troupe performance where a troupe could lock down the floor for a whole set just for themselves.
Alright, how do you keep the AFK bot from running a macro that takes the "stage" every 20 mins exactly as the time comes up?
How do you keep certain entertainers from dominating a cantina and making it impossible for others to perform there?
How do you compensate the dancer with limited playing time that just wants to log in for two solid hours of dancing but hasn't been there long enough during the day to have a macro timed for taking the dance floor before the grinders get it again?
Why not just play at a player city cantina and get some more important fixes coded in for dancer instead?
Schardour
Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:55 am
#8
Reachwind wrote:
Alright, how do you keep the AFK bot from running a macro that takes the "stage" every 20 mins exactly as the time comes up? Don't provide a line command. People have mentioned several ways to do this for other ingame operations. It can obviously be done.
How do you keep certain entertainers from dominating a cantina and making it impossible for others to perform there? If you speak of AFK players...See above. If these players are ATK, then you may see some healthy competition or partnerships, rather than one-sided exploitation of game systems for personal gain.
How do you compensate the dancer with limited playing time that just wants to log in for two solid hours of dancing but hasn't been there long enough during the day to have a macro timed for taking the dance floor before the grinders get it again? Macros, again, can be dealt with in planning stages.
Why not just play at a player city cantina and get some more important fixes coded in for dancer instead? Who are you to prioritize development cycles? First of all, you very well may not be on the same page as the developers. Secondly, would you like Panthu to be silenced on creative subjects and stick to AFK / Buff debates?
Rabenschwinge
Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:05 pm
#9
I got mixed feeling about this... yes I proposed similiar things already, since it is a prerequisite for actual professional entertainment.
Right now we're just some kind of party people bouncing around in the cantinas. A manager, a stage exlusively for entertainers, and maybe local contracts would finally entitle us to what we do professionally.
The problem with this is: It would make direct interaction with the audiance difficult. Changes like thus would be good for dancer, but very bad for entertainer. Currently audience and entertainers are actually one. With these changes you'd build up a both mental and physical wall between us.
So... I must state firm and clear that... erm... I don't know.
Anyone else wants a cookie?
Right now we're just some kind of party people bouncing around in the cantinas. A manager, a stage exlusively for entertainers, and maybe local contracts would finally entitle us to what we do professionally.
The problem with this is: It would make direct interaction with the audiance difficult. Changes like thus would be good for dancer, but very bad for entertainer. Currently audience and entertainers are actually one. With these changes you'd build up a both mental and physical wall between us.
So... I must state firm and clear that... erm... I don't know.
Anyone else wants a cookie?
DanceRulez
Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:58 pm
#10
Ooh ooh. *Gets inspiration from Til's idea*
How about this for spy/informant missions. I can imagine three types right now:
Secret Meeting: Your job is to go to a directed venue and do your thing for a while and await a factioned agent (perhaps you're given the name in advance, or maybe you need to look for a specific title). At some point while you're performing a specific NPC will spawn in the venue. Maybe it will approach you, maybe not. Maybe you have to spot the NPC and initiate a conversation with it. It will then give you some item or information that you return to a recruiter for reward and FP. For added difficulty, perhaps you have to lead the operative to some safe location out of the prying eyes of enemy or unknown agents to perform the exchange in secret.
Cover Operation: A factioned agent will be meeting with some NPC or other factioned agent at a specific location. Your job is to go there and perform and provide a cover for this meeting. At some point while you're performing the two NPCs will spawn and get together at some spot in the catina or other venue. While this is going on, some opposite faction agent or spy or some other such NPC may spawn and come into the room. You now have to try to keep this enemy agent busy while the other two agents finish their meeting or attempt to escape. Perhaps you can talk to the enemy agent or it might have some special radial menu options that you can use to try to get its attention. Perhaps there is a certain dance or certain flourish or a certain effect that it likes and will pay more attention to you (and less on what's going on around it) if you use it. Maybe it will give you some hint of what it likes if you talk to it, or maybe you have to keep trying different things until you figure out what it pays attention to. If you're successful, the friendly agents will finish their meeting and leave. If you fail to maintain the enemy agent's attention, it will discover the friendly agents and report them and you fail the mission. A successful mission could pay out credits and FP.
Informant Operation: Information is received that an enemy agent may be meeting someone at a specific cantina or similar location. Your job is to go there and put on a show, and wait and see if the agent actually does show up. If so then you need to make sure that the agent feels secure and the meeting takes place (i.e. play the right music or do the right dance, etc.). If you don't create a comfortable environment, the agent may get skittish and leave. If you are successful and the meeting does take place, then maybe you have to notice who the participants are and try to overhear what they are talking about (maybe via a radial menu option on the enemy agent or something or maybe if you're close enough you'll hear them in spatial). Again, you must maintain the comfortable ambiance without making it obvious that you're listening in or the participants may leave and you'll fail the mission. If you're successful, you return with the information to a recuiter or something for reward and FP.
Those are just a few ideas that came to mind that might work within the current game mechanics and might not be too difficult to add.
How about this for spy/informant missions. I can imagine three types right now:
Secret Meeting: Your job is to go to a directed venue and do your thing for a while and await a factioned agent (perhaps you're given the name in advance, or maybe you need to look for a specific title). At some point while you're performing a specific NPC will spawn in the venue. Maybe it will approach you, maybe not. Maybe you have to spot the NPC and initiate a conversation with it. It will then give you some item or information that you return to a recruiter for reward and FP. For added difficulty, perhaps you have to lead the operative to some safe location out of the prying eyes of enemy or unknown agents to perform the exchange in secret.
Cover Operation: A factioned agent will be meeting with some NPC or other factioned agent at a specific location. Your job is to go there and perform and provide a cover for this meeting. At some point while you're performing the two NPCs will spawn and get together at some spot in the catina or other venue. While this is going on, some opposite faction agent or spy or some other such NPC may spawn and come into the room. You now have to try to keep this enemy agent busy while the other two agents finish their meeting or attempt to escape. Perhaps you can talk to the enemy agent or it might have some special radial menu options that you can use to try to get its attention. Perhaps there is a certain dance or certain flourish or a certain effect that it likes and will pay more attention to you (and less on what's going on around it) if you use it. Maybe it will give you some hint of what it likes if you talk to it, or maybe you have to keep trying different things until you figure out what it pays attention to. If you're successful, the friendly agents will finish their meeting and leave. If you fail to maintain the enemy agent's attention, it will discover the friendly agents and report them and you fail the mission. A successful mission could pay out credits and FP.
Informant Operation: Information is received that an enemy agent may be meeting someone at a specific cantina or similar location. Your job is to go there and put on a show, and wait and see if the agent actually does show up. If so then you need to make sure that the agent feels secure and the meeting takes place (i.e. play the right music or do the right dance, etc.). If you don't create a comfortable environment, the agent may get skittish and leave. If you are successful and the meeting does take place, then maybe you have to notice who the participants are and try to overhear what they are talking about (maybe via a radial menu option on the enemy agent or something or maybe if you're close enough you'll hear them in spatial). Again, you must maintain the comfortable ambiance without making it obvious that you're listening in or the participants may leave and you'll fail the mission. If you're successful, you return with the information to a recuiter or something for reward and FP.
Those are just a few ideas that came to mind that might work within the current game mechanics and might not be too difficult to add.
Message Edited by DanceRulez on 08-01-2005 02:01 PM
Warryyr
Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:07 pm
#11
Schardour wrote:
We need more fun things!
Q to the F to the E.
A little cantina competition would be good, and those who "lose" can simply go to another NPC cantina, which means we'll actually be found more frequently around the galaxies in different cities.
As for player city cantinas, well - players tend to visit NPC cantinas with the most regularity, so it seems only fitting to get some more stuff going in there.
I've always loved the little alcoves in NPC cantinas, I really wish more was going on in this game, people looking shifty and sitting in dark corners...reminds me of the little Mos Eisley nook that Han and Chewie were sitting in...talking to Ben and Luke in hushed tones.
One time I met up with my guild, as we were planning a PvP strike. We were in a secluded NPC cantina, in a corner, all huddled in a side room and whispering. Some folks were standing guard. It was very Star Warsy, a bunch of Rebels huddling together, preparing for some scuffles. There were a couple Dancers who didn't say much, so it made us all pretty nervous...were they eavesdropping? I caught one with a quick /target and untarget of one of us.....and I was itching to get outta there.
Good times.
We need things that encourage people to gather in cantinas for the atmosphere, and I don't think AFK Dancers doing pirouettes into walls or dancing through tabletops that the folks are sitting at is the way to build that atmosphere.
I like this idea because it would keep the cantina floor, front and center, fresh and full of live folks who are really there to entertain.
Reachwind
Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:41 pm
#12
Actually I was thinking in terms of the other game areas like this that require people to be first come first serve to get the best spots etc for loot, rare items or rare resources. It is typically the people who have access to the 3rd party macro programs or that dedicate all day to farming the best game areas for RL money that get this kind of content on a regular basis in the game.
Schardour wrote:
Don't provide a line command. People have mentioned several ways to do this for other ingame operations. It can obviously be done.
I think if this were put into the game and at the same time a "killer app" for entertainers were introduced a lot of the casual and social minded dancers would be the most put out by this system.
Schardour wrote:
If you speak of AFK players...See above. If these players are ATK, then you may see some healthy competition or partnerships, rather than one-sided exploitation of game systems for personal gain.
Schardour wrote:
Macros, again, can be dealt with in planning stages.
I have never seen it happen since the game came out of beta. I wouldn't hold my breath for that kind of a change. That's why I think in this case just running a player city cantina solves this problem for Panthu in a much better way, and is why I suggested this.
Schardour wrote:
Who are you to prioritize development cycles? First of all, you very well may not be on the same page as the developers. Secondly, would you like Panthu to be silenced on creative subjects and stick to AFK / Buff debates?
I am just another player much like you that has an opinion and a right to state it. Agree or disagree at least we can both make our priorities known.
Schardour
Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:07 pm
#13
Reachwind wrote:
I am just another player much like you that has an opinion and a right to state it.
As is Panthu. 
With regard to your statements on 3rd party programs and "killer apps", I don't foresee the widespread use of those illegal operationsfor pure entertainment purposes, as much as for Inspiration purposes, or previous buffing purposes. If Inspirations were tied to the atmosphere and not the actualplayer, as Pan has suggested before, then it certainly wouldn't be a problem we'd see. An entertainer could receive a tip offstage, as well as onstage. If Inspirations remain tied to the player you're /watching....well, then we're still nothing but a simplified, underpowereddoctor class with no control overour services. But either way, Inspirations / buffs / healing / services aren't what's special to alot of entertainers. Those things were "draws." Some were negative, some positive, some more effective than others....but again, they're just the "draws." These social classes needed a reason to have visitors. How could adding a new draw (choreographed, uninterrupted, visible stage performances) hurt our profession? I believe it would be a positive addition.
Alot of people have been throwing out suggestions that we're supposed to be a downtime healer / buffer, and whining about how the change to Inspirations has completely ruined their game and their fun. Yet there are many players who aren't whining about those terrible 'tragedies'.....alot of players who are happy with the new {and planned} Inspirations, and are playing because it's fun to dance, rather than playing to heal players that the devs intentionally hurt so they might need us (if they're not a Jedi Healer.) Which is really more fun? Manipulating uninterested players to like us because we can heal them, as some sort of sick psychological game? Or playing the game for our own enjoyment and the enjoyment of others, with no emphasis on a forced visit to the cantina? Dowe want real enjoyment, real content, and real social gameplay? Or do we want a few simple abilities that docs, CMs, BEs,jedi, and squad leaders can already provide?
Ideas like Panthu's are what, I believe, truly define this profession.
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