Dancer Archive
Thread: So is unattended buffers (aka, the downfall of entertainers) going away with the combat upgrade?
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TangledMyth
Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:26 pm
#1
has there been any word on if these horrible macros are going to go away?
I thought i read it somewhere that it was going away, on here.
I thought i read it somewhere that it was going away, on here.
But now that I reread it, it seems that I misread it.
Over on Kette, its horrible. The cantina's are empty most the time.
The hotels have buffbots, and pretty much every city has one now too.
Please... Someone make it stop.
((and if you are pro boffbot, please dont even start with me. I dont care. I think you all ruined it for us. ))
Esharra
Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:02 pm
#2
All any of us can honestly say is that we don't know yet.
TangledMyth wrote:
has there been any word on if these horrible macros are going to go away?
DanceRulez
Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:16 pm
#3
Esharra wrote:All any of us can honestly say is that we don't know yet.
TangledMyth wrote:has there been any word on if these horrible macros are going to go away?
On this point, Esh, I believe the last official word is still that they ARE going to be removing the AFK macros. TH and Tyrant both said so. They have so far just not committed to *when* they intend to do so. When Tyrant last mentioned it here I think it sounded like they might get to it sometime around when the CU was done. I think he mentioned this before they hired the extra dev staff though, and the schedules are often changing anyway, so it's really anyone's guess. Tyrant did say that he would try to work it in "sooner" if he could, but who knows what their priorities are now, or at this point if Tyrant is even still driving them.
Drygo
Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:16 pm
#4
Yes, the last thing we heard...I don't know when that was, several months ago I'd say, the official word was that afk is being removed.
Buuuut...not sure anymore. Tyrant is gone and he seemed to be the big advocate for this. And, also I'm not sure how much it's going to matter anymore, depending on what the devs decide to do to our professions.
Esharra
Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:45 pm
#5
The two points that influenced my earlier reply.
Drygo wrote:
Tyrant is gone and he seemed to be the big advocate for this. And, also I'm not sure how much it's going to matter anymore, depending on what the devs decide to do to our professions.
shadowdefender
Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:49 pm
#6
We really don't know yet the answer to that - I suppose a lot will be answered when the Combat Upgrade is rolled out. We had dev support saying that they wanted to remove the ability to play the game AFK - however staffing has changed. We are hopeful however that in the near future it will become impossible to play the game without actually being at the keyboard.
Landlubber
Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:24 am
#7
This may very well apply to combat, but after the CU there will still be entertainer bots. They'll do BF healing instead of buffing (at least until there are buffs that can be applied by entertainers, then they will do those too), and I really can't see the Devs wanting to touch them. If they wanted to, they would have done so already. TH's last post about this "Recursive Macros are going away Pt.2" was startedlast August. And that, to my knowledge, was the last official word on this matter (maybe excepting some comments by SOETyrant who isn't on the team anymore).
shadowdefender wrote:
We really don't know yet the answer to that - I suppose a lot will be answered when the Combat Upgrade is rolled out. We had dev support saying that they wanted to remove the ability to play the game AFK - however staffing has changed. We are hopeful however that in the near future it will become impossible to play the game without actually being at the keyboard.
Einhinder
Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:03 am
#8
i dunno i think especially with the cu the afk is gonna go not because of afk dancing but afk loot camping with the new armor changes ris is gonna be even more wanted along with bh armor etc.. so there gonna wanna stop the afking going on in the looting of those ocmponents and pieces.
Ihareo
Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:48 am
#9
Einhinder wrote:
i dunno i think especially with the cu the afk is gonna go not because of afk dancing but afk loot camping with the new armor changes ris is gonna be even more wanted along with bh armor etc.. so there gonna wanna stop the afking going on in the looting of those ocmponents and pieces.
Actually they already started getting rid of that by making it so an AFK player cannot initiate an attack.
All they need to do now take away the ability to shut off automatic AFK, then make it so an AFK player can't initiate a macro and we'll be a big step closer to removing the AFKers WITHOUT removing recursive macros! 
Ihareo
Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 am
#10
Landlubber wrote:
This may very well apply to combat, but after the CU there will still be entertainer bots. They'll do BF healing instead of buffing (at least until there are buffs that can be applied by entertainers, then they will do those too), and I really can't see the Devs wanting to touch them. If they wanted to, they would have done so already. TH's last post about this "Recursive Macros are going away Pt.2" was startedlast August. And that, to my knowledge, was the last official word on this matter (maybe excepting some comments by SOETyrant who isn't on the team anymore).
It's not that simple though. Recursive Macros are used by almostthe entire SWG populace, whereas AFK players make up a small percentage. The fact that they had almost 100 pages of people arguing about the issue was enough to tell them that they needed to find a better solution than the one they were proposing.
Also remember, that once the DEVs make a decision, that decision goes to the higher ups with reports and graphs and whatnot, and it's the SUITS that make the final desicion. So even if the DEVs already made up their minds, it can still take the suits a long time to finalize it.
Landlubber
Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:58 am
#11
I'm not saying that the only, or even the best way to remove bots (which is really what we're asking for) is to remove recursion. The title of TH's thread referred to it as obviously at that time they were thinking in that direction.
Ihareo wrote:
It's not that simple though. Recursive Macros are used by almostthe entire SWG populace, whereas AFK players make up a small percentage. The fact that they had almost 100 pages of people arguing about the issue was enough to tell them that they needed to find a better solution than the one they were proposing.
By now many alternatives have been suggested, like for example removing certain commands from the macro language, or making it harder to circumvent auto-AFK and then making certain actions not possible while AFK.
But even if recursion were to be removed, it would just have to be a matter of adapting. Sure, I have a recursive CoB-Macro too. My flourish macro for when I'm working on an entertainer profession is also recursive - not because I'm ever AFK, but so that I don't have to continually restart it. But these things would still work if not recursive, they would just take a bit more work and monitoring by the player (like sending a /tell to yourself when the macro is about to end). Folks rely far too much on macros any IMO, even those that play their profession entirely ATK (and yes, that occasionally includes myself).
Ihareo wrote:
Also remember, that once the DEVs make a decision, that decision goes to the higher ups with reports and graphs and whatnot, and it's the SUITS that make the final desicion. So even if the DEVs already made up their minds, it can still take the suits a long time to finalize it.
That's the real problem, isn't it? That's what some of us forget from time to time when being passionate about our professions (again, me included): the Devs don't make policy, the are only implementing it. Doing a Combat Upgrade is a policy decision. So is rolling out a new expansion a few weeks before Episode 3 hits. And so is the removal of AFKing. All of these things have an impact on marketing and the commercial success of the game, some more, some less.
Which is also why I'm less than hopeful about the removal of entertainer-bots. Too many alt accounts which would then be cancelled
But then that's a rather cynical view - maybe the suits in charge at SOE will surprise us
Which is also why I'm less than hopeful about the removal of entertainer-bots. Too many alt accounts which would then be cancelled
But then that's a rather cynical view - maybe the suits in charge at SOE will surprise us
Ihareo
Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:05 am
#12
Landlubber wrote:
I'm not saying that the only, or even the best way to remove bots (which is really what we're asking for) is to remove recursion. The title of TH's thread referred to it as obviously at that time they were thinking in that direction.
Ihareo wrote:
It's not that simple though. Recursive Macros are used by almostthe entire SWG populace, whereas AFK players make up a small percentage. The fact that they had almost 100 pages of people arguing about the issue was enough to tell them that they needed to find a better solution than the one they were proposing.
By now many alternatives have been suggested, like for example removing certain commands from the macro language, or making it harder to circumvent auto-AFK and then making certain actions not possible while AFK.
But even if recursion were to be removed, it would just have to be a matter of adapting. Sure, I have a recursive CoB-Macro too. My flourish macro for when I'm working on an entertainer profession is also recursive - not because I'm ever AFK, but so that I don't have to continually restart it. But these things would still work if not recursive, they would just take a bit more work and monitoring by the player (like sending a /tell to yourself when the macro is about to end). Folks rely far too much on macros any IMO, even those that play their profession entirely ATK (and yes, that occasionally includes myself).
Ihareo wrote:
Also remember, that once the DEVs make a decision, that decision goes to the higher ups with reports and graphs and whatnot, and it's the SUITS that make the final desicion. So even if the DEVs already made up their minds, it can still take the suits a long time to finalize it.
That's the real problem, isn't it? That's what some of us forget from time to time when being passionate about our professions (again, me included): the Devs don't make policy, the are only implementing it. Doing a Combat Upgrade is a policy decision. So is rolling out a new expansion a few weeks before Episode 3 hits. And so is the removal of AFKing. All of these things have an impact on marketing and the commercial success of the game, some more, some less.
Which is also why I'm less than hopeful about the removal of entertainer-bots. Too many alt accounts which would then be cancelled
But then that's a rather cynical view - maybe the suits in charge at SOE will surprise us
Well that's part of the reason we need a correspondant, and ALSO why we need to band together as a profession.
When we can submit a proposal that the majority of Dancers can get behind, they'll take us more seriously.
Right now all they care about is Jedi, and those that fight Jedi. The reason for that is that those two camps can come together. We, as artists, generally think all differently from eachother, and have vastly different opinions and ideas. We just need to come to a unified solution.
1) What do we want?
2) What is the most beneficial way to achieve that?
As far as recursion goes, I'm so passionate about it staying in the game because I flat out need it. I had an car accident when I was 16 that basically destroyed my hands. I simply and physically cannot click all night. I use macros for everything exept typing (wich hurts immensly mind you). Without recursive macros, I and all the players who need them (of which we have our own little sub group) will be forced out of the game.
Message Edited by Ihareo on 03-24-2005 07:08 AM
TCWolffe
Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:13 pm
#13
how about creating an interface system similar to the image designer for the buffing process?
Two buff commands, one for an individual and one for your groups, would initiate the interface. The interface will show you who is watching/listening to you, updating of the amount of time/power the buff is currently at, and you can set a minimum fee. On the other side, it shows that your are indeed watching/listening, the current time/power of your buff, how much your minimum tip requirement is, and both sides with have to accept when they are both satisfied. This protects both sides, the entertainer can rely purely on generosity or charge a minimum, the customer can see that they are getting a full power buff before parting with their 5k or whatever.
no buffbotting will take place by virue of either removing the commands that initiate the buff from starting from being macroable, or not allowing acceptance of a completed buff to be macroable.
Two buff commands, one for an individual and one for your groups, would initiate the interface. The interface will show you who is watching/listening to you, updating of the amount of time/power the buff is currently at, and you can set a minimum fee. On the other side, it shows that your are indeed watching/listening, the current time/power of your buff, how much your minimum tip requirement is, and both sides with have to accept when they are both satisfied. This protects both sides, the entertainer can rely purely on generosity or charge a minimum, the customer can see that they are getting a full power buff before parting with their 5k or whatever.
no buffbotting will take place by virue of either removing the commands that initiate the buff from starting from being macroable, or not allowing acceptance of a completed buff to be macroable.
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