Dancer Archive
Thread: Dancers to be rendered superfluous to game play
Message Edited by CandiDance on 06-20-2005 10:44 AM
It has been stated before that our "Mind Enhancement" skills will be replaced by elite profession-specific buffs. Also, this would include things like crafters, who before hadn't really had a reason to come visit a cantina (inspiration gives them a crafting bonus for better results, and I know several crafters who ask for inspiration while building schematics and stuff with rare loot drops/stellar resources).
As JFreeman, the Dev who actually posted in an Entertainer forum (gasp!), said -they're focusing on Entertainers being wanted, but not needed. That's the difference - needing to see an Entertainer is partially what spawned the buffbot craze (spite towards us for "forcing" our playstyle on others, which I've heard mentioned so many times it's now a cliche). Players thought, "I'll show those Entertainers making me say "hello" heaven forbid - i'll make a robot nobody ever need talk to!"
So, ina way, BF removal could be a very good thing. I'm positive that, at the very least, new players will load into Mos Eisley and want to see the cantina. After all, four of the saga's biggest stars were "there" - Chewie, Han, Luke, and Obi-Wan - and that's where Luke's journey towards being a Jedi really took off. If they go there, we can be there to entertain them.
Removing BF will prevent a player's possible first experience with Entertainersfrom being"I need to get this healed and can't find an Entertainer, GRRRRR! Now I can't play until I find one." to "I wonder what goes on in the cantina" or "Entertainers will help me level a little faster."
I think it's a little early to pronounce Dancers (and all Ents in general, really) rendered useless to gameplay. I'm cautious right now, in that removing BF is a BIG step and it takes away a large role we played in the game - and I do certainly expect to get compensation accordingly. If they took something like Wound Healing away from Doctors, Docs would expect something REALLY good to compensate for it, right? I think we should expect as much, as well.
Your points are well made.
In response, I would point out that from what I can see basic medics got nothing in response for losing wound healing with the CU. Also, that the Dev's have always been up front and tend to deliver what they announce they are going to deliver. I don't see in the upcoming changes thread where there is an iota of promise of increasing our buff or nature of those buffs.
Finally, being a dancerdoesnot mean beinga tour stop of the noob bus at the Mois Esiley Cantina. Its a profession that should have needed game play interfaces with other players. By its natures this has to be an active interface through performing. Our performance at the key board should be a needed part of game play and basic game design construction if we are to be a viable profession.
Novice medics recieved very little in compensation, but the medic profession received several compensations. They now have to ability to cure states (stabilizers) much sooner than before. They can also get ranged healing, allbeit weak. Adding diagnose to tier 2 isn't a problem, since you can't heal wounds until after that point anyway.
CandiDance wrote:
Your points are well made.
In response, I would point out that from what I can see basic medics got nothing in response for losing wound healing with the CU. Also, that the Dev's have always been up front and tend to deliver what they announce they are going to deliver. I don't see in the upcoming changes thread where there is an iota of promise of increasing our buff or nature of those buffs.
Finally, being a dancerdoesnot mean beinga tour stop of the noob bus at the Mois Esiley Cantina. Its a profession that should have needed game play interfaces with other players. By its natures this has to be an active interface through performing. Our performance at the key board should be a needed part of game play and basic game design construction if we are to be a viable profession.
CandiDance wrote:
Your points are well made.
In response, I would point out that from what I can see basic medics got nothing in response for losing wound healing with the CU.
CandiDance wrote:
Your points are well made.
In response, I would point out that from what I can see basic medics got nothing in response for losing wound healing with the CU. Also, that the Dev's have always been up front and tend to deliver what they announce they are going to deliver. I don't see in the upcoming changes thread where there is an iota of promise of increasing our buff or nature of those buffs.
Finally, being a dancerdoesnot mean beinga tour stop of the noob bus at the Mois Esiley Cantina. Its a profession that should have needed game play interfaces with other players. By its natures this has to be an active interface through performing. Our performance at the key board should be a needed part of game play and basic game design construction if we are to be a viable profession.
My point wasn't that Dancers will be relegated to being a tour stop of the noob bus at Mos Eisley cantina, my point was that no Entertainer would ever be rendered "useless" because people will ALWAYS be stopping by at LEAST one place (Mos Eisley cantina) to take a look at it - and if they'd never been introduced to Entertainers before, they'd learn about them then.
I'm in full agreement that Entertainers (and not just Dancers) need a role in gameplay of this game, and that we should be a viable profession.
As I've said - the removal of our healing abilities DEMANDS we get adequate compensation for it. As yet, I don't see this level of compensation.
Heck, you Dancers get props and stuff it looks like. Check out Musicians, look at what we get for removal BF (that we know so far):
1 new song. Some new effects (that will likely provide nothing but "ohhh's" and "ahhhh's" and lag). Oh, and get this - our Battle Fatigue line will be populated with our instrument schematics and certifications. You like that? Do YOU think that 1 new song and some new effects is adequate to compensate Musicians for losing our role-defining skill in the game? I don't, I don't care where the instrument schems and certs are - shifting them to a previously pivotal skill branch is NOT compensation.
My point being - we're all in this together. And we NEED to hope and push for more, because having something as big as BF being removed demands we get compensated accordingly. Thus far, I don't see it - props are nice for Dancers, but even with that it's not enough in my opinion. There *has* to be more, but perhaps they're not prepared to release info on it yet. Maybe they're still working the details, or seeing if they can even code it. But, if it looks like nothing is surfacing, we'll need to call them on it - we deserve adequate compensation for losing such a big role in the game.
Will removing BF render Entertainers superfluous in this game? It will, if we don't push for MORE from the removal of BF. If you're concerned that this is all we're getting, and we deserve more, then post like mad in the "in development" forums when the news of this officially hits, because I'll be in there asking for more - removing BF is most definitely a big change, and a big gutting of our role in the game. And we need a NEW role to compensate. I'd imagine the new role will be profession-specific buffs, but if it looks like we'll get nothing of the sort, I'll be in there roaring alongside you.
But, please - let's not condemn ourselves to being rendered useless just yet, this is all still rather preliminary.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 06-20-2005 11:02 AM
Warryyr wrote:
Oh, and get this - our Battle Fatigue line will be populated with our instrument schematics and certifications.
So they are taking the certifications out of the knowlage tree, and the Schematics out of Techneques to fill this new tree?
--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:
Warryyr wrote:
Oh, and get this - our Battle Fatigue line will be populated with our instrument schematics and certifications.
So they are taking the certifications out of the knowlage tree, and the Schematics out of Techneques to fill this new tree?
That is the information as has been reported so far. As was said, though - could be subject to change.
Being able to play most instruments except the Nalargon will no longer be possible with Musician 0/0/4/0. The new requirement will be 0/0/4/4.
As a preliminary announcement to Musicians, I find it a big disappointment. Removing battle fatigue healing and shifting stuff we already had FORCING some to spend more skillpoints just to play instruments and build them seems a poor choice, as well as the fact that it will do nothing to compensate us for our lost BF healing role in the game. It will only serve to alienate previous 0040 folks, so they'll no longer be able to play all the instruments they used to. That, to me, is a nerf.
It's just SO upsetting to me that Battle Fatigue is no more - and the branch gets filled with junk that we ALREADY have, will reduce the people who play with us with different instruments, and does nothing to provide us witha role to interact with the community still.
New effects are nice, but I rarely use them now. Mostly because they serve no purpose besides looking pretty, and some people flame me for causing them lag.
Again, though - this is all preliminary. And I fully expect more to come from BF's removal. Because right now the Musician "compensation" seems to be completely unfair.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 06-20-2005 11:25 AM
Warryyr wrote:
Being able to play most instruments except the Nalargon will no longer be possible with Musician 0/0/4/0. The new requirement will be 0/0/4/4.
Arturun wrote:
Warryyr wrote:
Being able to play most instruments except the Nalargon will no longer be possible with Musician 0/0/4/0. The new requirement will be 0/0/4/4.
I thought all of the certifications and schematics would be moved to the same tree.
?
They are...the xxx4 branch is where all instrument certs and schems will be going.
The xx4x branch gives you the ability to play different songs.
So, as proposed for the future:
0004 Musician = use different instruments, but not songs aside from Entertainer 0404
0040 Musician = use different songs, but no instruments aside from Entertainer 0404
0044 Musician = Just as things are right now with 0040 Musician, but you get to build instruments, too.
We've had some information shared with us on upcoming changes, which is great. We've been asking for communication for forever, right?
But part of that information was a statement that this is not everything, and there is a bigger picture/plan.
So lets not work ourselves into some imaginary frenzy and make them not want to share with us again, okay?
Doriana wrote:
Okay, we need to be careful here to not fall into the trap of jumping to conclusions from incomplete information.
We've had some information shared with us on upcoming changes, which is great. We've been asking for communication for forever, right?
But part of that information was a statement that this is not everything, and there is a bigger picture/plan.
So lets not work ourselves into some imaginary frenzy and make them not want to share with us again, okay?
Yeah, this is just part of the stuff, most likely. IF it turns out down the road that this IS it, then it's time to be worried.
I agree, the communication is excellent. I'm all for more, let's foster that.
Warryyr wrote:
Yeah, this is just part of the stuff
QFE
We are going through a revamp. I'm sure many would love for it to come as a all-in-one-patch kind of thing. Frankly, I want it in parts over several patches. This way is much more manageable from a QA perspective. This is going to take a while but I think our roughest road is behind us now.
