Dancer Archive
Thread: They responded to the top 5 lists! Oh...except ours. :(
Awww...I was so excited to see the "response to top 5 profession lists" on the development forums. Except the Dancer was missing..."still discussing a few things," I think is how he put it.
Any word on when you'll be done "discussing" Ravenmist?
(Keep up the great work, btw. I think we as a profession are lucky to have one of the BEST correspondents on our side!)
Seriously tho, been butting heads a bit with an issue or two and I'd rather get you guys the top 5 list a week late then to tell you that 2 or 3 of our top issues aren't going to happen or have no new info on. (I am making progress btw, just need one or two more responses before I can post it up.)
Sorry for the delay everyone but I'm not going to give up on any issues you feel are important. A simple, "itsnot broken, its a game challange,"answer isn't goingto cut it with me and I'm sure not going to give that answer to you.
The reason they are not going to respond is that we keep telling them the same thing, nerf AFK. Now, I'm a live dancer. Always have been, always will be. However, we have to finally come to grips with the fact that the developers will do NOTHING to solve the AFK problem, because they not only fail to see it is a problem, but actually encourage AFK behavior. Only we in this forum, and our brothers and sisters in the entertainer and musician forums, actually consider AFKers "the problem" that should be addressed.
However, we as live dancers have other issues that MUST be addressedabove and beyondthe AFK problem. Things like the mission payouts on entertainer terminals. Things like the ability to self-buff. Things like the uselessness of the registration system in its current form. Things like the lack of flourishes on our dances. As a dancer myself (Graham modern style), I can personally come up with about twenty interesting flourishes for the exotic dances besides the three we have. I'm sure the girls at UC Irvine (or wherever they do the motion-animation) could do the same.
Thus, I recommend we as dancers offer suggestions that will make the quality of the game better for those of us who take the profession seriously, without bringing up the same old "Swan-Lake song" of AFK dancers. After all, if dancing is a fun, prfitable, and bug-free occupation, berhaps more dancers will go live.
PoetDancer wrote:The reason they are not going to respond is that we keep telling them the same thing, nerf AFK. Now, I'm a live dancer. Always have been, always will be. However, we have to finally come to grips with the fact that the developers will do NOTHING to solve the AFK problem, because they not only fail to see it is a problem, but actually encourage AFK behavior. Only we in this forum, and our brothers and sisters in the entertainer and musician forums, actually consider AFKers "the problem" that should be addressed.
However, we as live dancers have other issues that MUST be addressed above and beyond the AFK problem. Things like the mission payouts on entertainer terminals. Things like the ability to self-buff. Things like the uselessness of the registration system in its current form. Things like the lack of flourishes on our dances. As a dancer myself (Graham modern style), I can personally come up with about twenty interesting flourishes for the exotic dances besides the three we have. I'm sure the girls at UC Irvine (or wherever they do the motion-animation) could do the same.
Thus, I recommend we as dancers offer suggestions that will make the quality of the game better for those of us who take the profession seriously, without bringing up the same old "Swan-Lake song" of AFK dancers. After all, if dancing is a fun, prfitable, and bug-free occupation, berhaps more dancers will go live.
Wow, I didn't know you were a correspondant able to read their forum and see what is still being discussed. (I talked to Ravenmist during the photo shoot on test center, and it's not that BTW. It is something you would probably consider an issue that "must" be addressed. But I'll leave it to Ravenmist to finally respond.)
Do you want to know what I think would make entertainers more fun? Getting rid of AFK performers. I'm not just guessing at this, I KNOW. Entertainers used to be much more fun. Cantinas were lively. The new character toting a slitherhorn in desert crawlers or striped slacks was greeted warmly and given lots of help and made to feel part of the group. The cantinas were lively active places. Entertainers would get together and actually coordinate with each other to entertain! This lasted until AFK started taking over as the dominant playstyle for entertainers. Now most the real entertainers have left the cantina and new players come in and are often greeted by a cold, boring lifeless place, even if theres tons of players around. It's no wonder people don't enjoy the class.
Agreed Tiaga dear. Indeed, I would very much like to see some of the things Ravenmist compiled implemented in the game. She does about as good a job as can be expected with a class like ours. However, when pretty much every other response to the top five issues in our thread says something about making the profession AFK proof, and if the developers browse the boards to see if the issues correspond to the issues brought to the player base, they may in fact think that these issues, if implemented,won't satisfy the player base, but only encourage greater ill-will. So then comes the question of how should they spend their time, with a group of combat players who would seem to be happy with some changes, or a group of players who do not feel satisfaction, however many changes are brought about on their behalf. We cannot expect them to nerf something they cannot nerf, AFK performance.
Thus, my message was not aimed toward Ravenmist, you, or anyone else who makes the attempt to make the mechanics of dancing better for all of us. My comments were reserved to those dancers who will take no comfort in any change unless AFKers are abolished. We will never win on this issue, and it is, as one poster said /beatdeadhorse. To me, any attempt to bring this issue to the developers more than it has been done already will do little more than irk their ire.
Do I like AFK performers? I do not. Have I resigned myself to the understanding that I will have to accept and deal with AFKntertainers for the life of this game? Unfortunately, yes. AFKers are here to stay, whether we like it or not. We waited for the official SOE declaration toward AFK performance, and they said it was legal and legitimate. It was a sad day for live dancing. I too remember the times when the cantinas were fun places to be. I made a lot of friends performing in those days. However, those days are gone, and now comes the task for making those of us who put our stock in this profession to do what is neccissary for it to be fun for us. If AFKers benefit from these changes, it really shouldn't matter. However, the game mechanics work against us now, be it from mission terminals, registration issues, or enhancement mechanics.
PoetDancer wrote:
We cannot expect them to nerf something they cannot nerf, AFK performance.
I'm curious as to why you say that. If you say it for social reasons.. Well theres plenty of other games that took that stance, and they turned into macro playgrounds. The problem has, as I understand it, started to touch other professions as well, so more and more players are getting irked by it.
If you say it for technical reasons.. Well I'm a programmer by trade, and if theres something that nearlytwo decades of programming has taught me.. It's that nothing is impossible. There are plenty of technical approaches they could take. It's just a matter of how long it would take to implement.
For the record, it has been stated that it is not a violation of the EULA. As I recall, the way they said it implied nothing about how they felt about it, positive or negative. And I for one will not give up so easily. I'm just laying a bit lower than I did in the past, waiting for the right moment.
Understandable hon, like I said, not tryin to come down on you or anything. I understand how you feel. Lets just be a little more careful next time please? I don't want misinformation being spread if it can be avoided.
PoetDancer wrote:
Yes, Raven, I did examine the top five list. All very valid points, and no mention of AFK on the top five...though youdid put it on the secondary concerns for debate by this forum. Then I saw five pages of AFK argument. So if I jumped to a conclusion, it is less a grand jete than a wayward soubresaut. Maybe 5 months on the line servers has jaded me.
Just wanted to share something the artisan correspondant wrote, which I think describes why I don't give up on the issues I care about so easily.
Vaedrosswrote:
Think of software schedules as if they were acts of congress. The changes you want most are slow and deliberate. The best you can do is lobby, lobby, lobby, lobby, and lobby some more and get what you want stuck in a rider on a marginally related bill.
Tiaga:
Look, you and I both know that AFKers are making life miserable for us live folk. That cannot be denied. However, can we as a community be so blind as to believe that the developers will do ANYTHING to combat the problem, no matter how much we scream? Bringing this issue up is like bringing up The Dodgers to a resident of Brooklyn. It does nothing but bring up ill sentiments about something that nothing will ever change. SOEstated quite clearly that the use of in-game mechanics to play the game in lieu of an active player is not an exploit. Until they change this call (and there is no incentive for them to do so), then I'm forced to conclude that AFKers are here to stay, and look for ways live dancers can remain viable in an AFK world.
Quite frankly, I have given up on this issue, not because I don't feel strongly about it, but there are several things that the developers can do right now tomake the entertainer classes more viable without raising a big stir. Registration issues would help live dancers a LOT. Mission payouts would help live dancers a LOT. Refined buffing protocols and self-buffs would help livedancers a LOT. THESE are the things I personally think the developers could do much to solve. As a master dancer, I don't need XP. I as a rule try to stay away from the grind capitals, not because AFKers are not there, but because I am needed for service and buffs at exotic locales. But with registration being the way that it is, I could be sitting in Dathomir all day and have customers that need me pass me right by to pay 4300cred to go to the grind capital of Coronet. Same as with player cities. I could be dancing in a neutral player city for hours, and could have customers pass me right by to grab a shuttle to the grind capitals. Abandonedbecause of the needlessly cumbersome rule on player cantina registration where unless the factions match up exactly between dancer and venue, the dancer does not exist on the world map. Thus, the deck is stacked against live dancers who enjoy travelling and giving service, and promotes the AFK XP hounds who write a macro, start it in Coronet, join a group, leave the computer for two weeks (checking periodically to level up), and become a master dancer only to nerf it all, and become a musician...
That is why I am most concerned with solving issues other than the AFK one, because such changes promote the live practitioners of the profession. And as far as the AFKers are concerned, I've pretty much dismissed them from my concern. Justfix registration, give us a monetary incentive through missions to dance in exotic locales (which demands registration to be fixed), and we livedancers will do just fine.
PoetDancer wrote:Tiaga:
Look, you and I both know that AFKers are making life miserable for us live folk. That cannot be denied. However, can we as a community be so blind as to believe that the developers will do ANYTHING to combat the problem, no matter how much we scream?
I almost stopped right there. You've already shown earlier in this thread you're good at jumping to conclusions. Be careful about making statements of absolutes. You're saying the developers will never do anything. You can't say that for sure unless you have a crystal ball - one that actually works that is. I agree with you that they won't do anything right this minute. I can fully understand why too. But I don't see that as a reason to drop the issue completely. Though as I said above, I don't think it really belongs as a dancer issue, as it effects all entertainers, and to a lesser extent many other classes.
I did read the rest of what you said. You do make some good points - but you are viewing the profession from the eye of a master. The profession isn't just for the masters, it's for everyone that might enjoy playing it. And life is pretty miserable right now for people trying to advance who might actually enjoy the profession. They are forced to either take a long time to level, or to suck it up and join the big crowds, maybe even go AFK. When the solution to a problem (All the good xp spots are AFK crowds) is to become part of the problem (Go AFK with them) there is something wrong. Sure, you don't need the xp. I don't need the xp. So we can ignore those spots. But most people who are dancers are not masters.
I've been keeping a positive outlook on how things are going. So far, I haven't been disappointed - it's just a matter of waiting. Remember when the developers asked on the main forum what new social animations people wanted to see? There was a huge outcry in the dancer forum that they were making social animations but ignoring the incomplete dances. I figured they already knew what kind of dances they were doing (It's not like people are silent on what they want in here) and were looking for other things to slip in while at the motion capture studios. I even posted as such here, and was discounted. But in the end, they came in here to say basically the same thing just to calm people down. Now we haven't seen those new dances yet, even though they are done. I was wrong about the timeframe, I'd expected more like a couple months. But that is where the patience comes in. When the space expansion comes out, I expect I'll be doing new dances.