Dancer Archive
Thread: The conundrum...
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picklesSW
Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:57 am
#1
On one hand, I still do enjoy the game. Yeah, entertainers don't have any content, half our dances are broken or incomplete and our cantinas are still overrun by AFKers. But I do enjoy the friends I've made, crafting videos is a hoot and partying is enjoyable. It's certainly become a part-time love, but it's a love nonetheless. No other game offers this.
On the other hand, I hate this dev team with a serious passion. Over the past year, we've been fed lie after lie, ignored and insulted, passed over and marginalized. And I'm paying $15 a month to play. I ty not to think about it too much because it causes me to grind my teeth.
Anyone else feel this? My head tells me I should press the cancel button, but my heart doesn't want to. If I didn't read these forums I probably wouldn't know that the devs hate us, and would be happier, but then I would simply be naive. With knowledge comes responsibility, and I know that my clear responsibility is to press the cancel button and stop supporting a dev team that does not care at all about me. Closing my eyes to the problem won't make it disappear.
I actually feel guilty when people send me tells and say "I just wanted to say I loved your videos and they are the reason I went out and just bought SWG!" I want to crawl into a hole and hide because I'm afraid they'll come looking for me in a month asking for their $50 back. I'm having a problem rationalizing working on new videos because I now realize how much free marketing I'm supplying to SOE with them. Originally I had hoped that the videos might be a platform for getting the message out and enacting change, but now I find to my horror that they've had the opposite effect and only drawn more people into the professions that never were. Oh, the horror!
I feel trapped. Totally trapped. And completely helpless.
Someone hug me.
On the other hand, I hate this dev team with a serious passion. Over the past year, we've been fed lie after lie, ignored and insulted, passed over and marginalized. And I'm paying $15 a month to play. I ty not to think about it too much because it causes me to grind my teeth.
Anyone else feel this? My head tells me I should press the cancel button, but my heart doesn't want to. If I didn't read these forums I probably wouldn't know that the devs hate us, and would be happier, but then I would simply be naive. With knowledge comes responsibility, and I know that my clear responsibility is to press the cancel button and stop supporting a dev team that does not care at all about me. Closing my eyes to the problem won't make it disappear.
I actually feel guilty when people send me tells and say "I just wanted to say I loved your videos and they are the reason I went out and just bought SWG!" I want to crawl into a hole and hide because I'm afraid they'll come looking for me in a month asking for their $50 back. I'm having a problem rationalizing working on new videos because I now realize how much free marketing I'm supplying to SOE with them. Originally I had hoped that the videos might be a platform for getting the message out and enacting change, but now I find to my horror that they've had the opposite effect and only drawn more people into the professions that never were. Oh, the horror!
I feel trapped. Totally trapped. And completely helpless.
Someone hug me.
Warryyr
Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:27 pm
#3
/hug
If you don't stay, who will help me keep my blood pressure down?
It's a pretty dark time for us, though. Things aren't exactly as jubilant as they were not too long ago.
We were all looking forward to a little something new, but the Devs turned into yet another battle.
People with 17 posts get information Panthu's been after for weeks.
And, of course, the many issues plaguing us in-game that don't look like they'll ever go away.
But, as you said, we have each other - which means an awful lot, given our situation. Thank god there's a lot of friendly and selfless people in these professions, or they'd been HISTORY a very very long time ago in galaxies not so far away.
Utess
Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:20 pm
#5
/hug
I know how you feel hon and I still sometimes get depressed about it. But what I've realized is it isn't the profession, its the people 
And as long as the people are still here then even if I just had 1 dance, I'd still be here too(well maybe not if it was just poplock <.< ).
And as long as the people are still here then even if I just had 1 dance, I'd still be here too(well maybe not if it was just poplock <.< ).Stick around hon, good things will eventually happen for our profession.
EsistDarkSky
Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:56 pm
#6
I could hug you, but it'd degrade us both.
I hear ya bud. This game is driving me up a wall, and SOE is useless. But take pride in the fact that you're giving SWG the bright side SOE should have given it.
I hear ya bud. This game is driving me up a wall, and SOE is useless. But take pride in the fact that you're giving SWG the bright side SOE should have given it.
AtheneNoctua
Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:31 pm
#7
I can feel your pain. SOE's customer disservice is by no means worth USD 15 a month, and so far all changes lead into a direction that will eventually drive the last remaining RPers and Smugglers, Squad Leaders and Entertainers out of the game. It doesn't really help that even if SWG management would change direction today, I guess it would take at least a year to bring this game and its population back to a state that I would consider healthy.
On the other hand dancing or playing music is still a blast if the right people are on, so why should we quit playing a game that is fun? And I am proud of belonging to a profession that uses SWG as a tool to create its own content (concerts, cross server events...) instead of just grinding mission after mission.
In other words: while I understand everybody who leaves the game, I'd prefer to have more of us around to have fun, and to help warding off the masses who confuse this game with KOTOR or XvT just because it has Star Wars in its name. At least until I get funding to build my own MMORPG
On a side note to those who use SWG as a film production tool: maybe it's time to add a disclaimer stating that it "has been done by professionals and it only appears as if fun can be had by playing SWG." Or something along those lines.
Edit: Oops, forgot to /hug javy *hangs head in shame*
On the other hand dancing or playing music is still a blast if the right people are on, so why should we quit playing a game that is fun? And I am proud of belonging to a profession that uses SWG as a tool to create its own content (concerts, cross server events...) instead of just grinding mission after mission.
In other words: while I understand everybody who leaves the game, I'd prefer to have more of us around to have fun, and to help warding off the masses who confuse this game with KOTOR or XvT just because it has Star Wars in its name. At least until I get funding to build my own MMORPG
On a side note to those who use SWG as a film production tool: maybe it's time to add a disclaimer stating that it "has been done by professionals and it only appears as if fun can be had by playing SWG." Or something along those lines.
Edit: Oops, forgot to /hug javy *hangs head in shame*
Message Edited by AtheneNoctua on 10-06-2004 02:47 AM
AtheneNoctua
Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:46 pm
#8
Utess wrote:/hugI know how you feel hon and I still sometimes get depressed about it. But what I've realized is it isn't the profession, its the peopleStick around hon, good things will eventually happen for our profession.
Shush! You just gave the devs an idea...
*** Update Notes Publish 10.5 ***
Entertainer
Vorpaks
Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:17 pm
#9
/wookieehug
I'm still (gah) a newbie entertainer, and so am still having a blast. And I am a Ranger so am already used to no developer attention. But I was looking for an excuse to hug you anyway.
Edit: Okay, okay, okay. Because she's bugging me about it you also get a /fishyhug from Io.
I'm still (gah) a newbie entertainer, and so am still having a blast. And I am a Ranger so am already used to no developer attention. But I was looking for an excuse to hug you anyway.
Edit: Okay, okay, okay. Because she's bugging me about it you also get a /fishyhug from Io.
Message Edited by Vorpaks on 10-05-2004 09:19 PM
Tandava
Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:34 pm
#10
Yes I feel that along with the result on Kettemoor roleplay is mostly dead as well. Most of the big roleplay groups have gone, roleplay as it stands remains only personal in character conversations with one or two people every now and then. There is no event done by entertainers that aren't in the three or four places left that sometimes has live people once a week, and people who create large scale content are gone.
I'm drained. All my time was trying to futilely come up with yet more things people could do only to find that most were busy in missions or grinding or didn't want to leave a safe haven. I could care less about the dev's they killed off the roleplayers on my server, the few people who wanted storylines and content. They killed off the atmosphere of large gatherings in lieu of jedi crazes and soon piloting info. They made it too much work. 95% of my time was making lists, planning and trying to ask 200 people to fill 5 or 10 places for an entertainer event.
I had so many beautiful ideas and learned many more from here, but the world is mostly dead. I could put more work into it and a few people will love it but I will be a heartless husk if I do.
The world even three months from now will not be more supportive of gatherings and roleplay and dancing. I couldn't last that long. So many possibilities, so many friends, so many tears.
Drygo
Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:49 pm
#11
I've been where you have, certainly. I cancelled once (well, twice, but the first time had nothing to do with the game.) I came back a mere 3 weeks later before my subscription had even run out because of TH's post regarding the end of the recursive macro.
As I always say, I weigh the good and the bad. And, when the bad outweighs the good, that's when I hit the cancel button. At the time that I cancelled, that was the case for me. The Cantina and entertainer problems were so depressing, frustrating, and maddening to me that it became too much even though I was having fun with other aspects of the game. The truth was, every time that I logged on, it would make me angry and depressed to set foot in a Cantina. I realized that this feeling was not healthy, and it was time for me to go. One might say, just don't go to the Cantina. But, it wasn't something I could avoid because it was my favorite profession and I wasn't going to drop it. If I dropped it, it meant dropping the game.
So, yes, I completely understand what you're saying. I guess when I heard the recursive macros were ending, even though I knew it would be far off, it gave me renewed energy and hope that things were going to eventually change for the better. And, since that time, the game for me has personally gotten better and I've been having a lot of fun again, even though nothing has really changed in regards to our predicament. I often log off and have so much that I want to do, and so many fun things to participate in that I no longer feel this overpowering sense of anger and depression every time I set foot in a Cantina. That's, of course, in no small part due to the strength of the entertainer population on Kettemoor. But, it also has to do with other things, including Jump to Light Speed, which I expect to have a lot of fun with. So, I have things to look forward...and yes, that does include the quest (no matter it's problems), and the thought of the end of the recursive macro and theHutt Casino coming in 2008.
So...right now, I'm not at that state of anger and depression anymore. The good is outweighing the bad for me. But, with everything, feelings are temporary. I foresee that a year from now (or sooner)if the recursive macro hasn't ended and I've gotten frustrated again, that I will again be seriously contemplating that cancel button.
One thing I won't tell you is to "hang in there." That's not something I or anyone else can decide for you or anybody else. I mean, we are all at whatever point we're all at. (duh!). For some it's bad, for some it's not so bad. All I can really say is that if it sucks for you, you shouldn't stress yourself, it's not healthy. I made that same decision once upon a time, and I will do it again. Because, I'm not going to let myself get that upset about a game again. If it becomes unhealthy again, I will cancel. And, that's what you have to decide for yourself. But, to answer your question...I don't feel this way now, but yes, I most certainly have, and I know what it feels like, and I completely understand your dilemma. So.../hugs. And, the only thing you have to do is have the strength to do what makes you happiest. Whether that means keep playing, cancelling, or simply taking a break. You gotta do what you gotta do. And, yes, the only way it will ever have a *real* effect on SOE is through the actions of one's pocket book--and a lengthy, well written explanation as to one's cancellation. Believe me, the exit survey does not even have any options that address our issues...that's how forgotten we are. So, when I cancelled, I wrote a rather long letter (me? a long letter?), to customer service outlining exactly why I did what I did. I don't know if it had any effect whatsoever. But,at least I did what I could. And, I like to think that I was intelligent sounding and noninflammatory enough to the point where they didn't just throw it away without any thought or consideration. Maybe I'm naive, but I like to think that what we say and write does have some effect, no matter how minute.
Oh...and /hug.
Message Edited by Drygo on 10-05-2004 06:50 PM
Sunjammer
Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:35 pm
#12
picklesSW wrote:
>I actually feel guilty when people send me tells and say "I just wanted to say I loved your videos and they are the reason I went out and just bought SWG!" I want to crawl into a hole and hide because I'm afraid they'll come looking for me in a month asking for their $50 back. I'm having a problem rationalizing working on new videos because I now realize how much free marketing I'm supplying to SOE with them. Originally I had hoped that the videos might be a platform for getting the message out and enacting change, but now I find to my horror that they've had the opposite effect and only drawn more people into the professions that never were. Oh, the horror!
I feel trapped. Totally trapped. And completely helpless.
Someone hug me.
EEEK! Since that's almost exactly what I did /tell you at the starport jam, now *I* feel guilty.
But it's actually been a month. As it happens, I WAS going to come looking for you, but not for mayhem; I was going to make a couple more custom clothing requests, once I had more money. Now, reading this, I can see why you seemed less than enthusiastic about the first one.
If it helps, I'm having a blast. The Jam wasn't my first day, it was my first day BACK after the end of the two-week free demo (had to wait a couple weeks for another paycheck before I could buy the software). And before I ever started playing, I had about a month where I was interested, had watched the Crawl videos (there were only two at the time), and wanted to play, but couldn't start yet because of hardware problems. I spent all that idle time reading these forums. I read back ten pages of threads here in Dancer, read all 200 pages of the combat balance delay, read about the broken GCW and the lack of roleplay...I read a LOT. I knew what I was in for, and I plunked down the $30 anyway.
Today, I discovered Formal. I never thought much about it; I knew about the base dance problems with it and Lyrical, and planned to largely ignore it in my single-minded drive to Popular. I certainly hated Footloose, and most of the XP for Formal came from doing Basic2. But when I gave Formal a try I immediately fell in love with it. I especially like how the flourishes all start and end with nearly the same position, so it's easy to blend them together and cover the bugged base. The timing is a bit tricky, but when I get it right, it's gorgeous.
Now if certain people would stop distracting me from my exit cues with endless speculation about my apparent lack of frills....
SWG is my second MMORPG. The first was City of Heroes, a game with much more solid code, better design--it runs smooth as silk on the same PC that pants to keep up with SWG, even after a new video card and all the graphics settings turned down to minimum. Combat is balanced, finding teammates and gauging mission difficulty is easy, the devs keep in excellent contact on the forums, there's almost no clipping...I sometimes think the CoH Dev team sat down and played SWG for a month, took copious notes, and proceded to do the exact opposite.
And CoH is boring as hell. Better graphics, better code, better world design, tons less lag, and gameplay consists entirely of destroy missions. Professions consist of ranged combat, melee combat, tanker, group healer, and group buffer/enemy-debuffer. That's it. No crafting, no roleplaying, no economy. Just beat up on mob after mob after mob. This month, a new set of mobs from another dimension! To quote an old Kids In The Hall promo, "you'll find out what the term ad nauseum means."
There are plenty of good things to say about CoH, and plenty that SOE can learn from them if they ever want to start from scratch and launch SWG2. But I've had more fun and made more friends in one month of SWG than in three months of CoH. I complain about the things I don't like as much as the next person, but that doesn't mean I'm not having a good time.
Besides, two of the three things that annoy me most about SWG aren't really the fault of the devs, but of my fellow players. The problem with making something foolproof is that there is no underestimating the ingenuity of fools.
I'm not really sure if I have a point in all this rambling. I certainly don't want YOU to feel guilty for "suckering me in" when I don't feel suckered. Even if I did hate the game and want to quit, I wouldn't blame you; I'm a mature, grown-up person, and I know who's responsible for my actions.
Drygo's reply above suggests a good alternative. Instead of leaving permanently, take a vacation. Cancel and take a month or two, and see if you still feel like shucking it permanently. If you want to give another MMORPG a whirl, you could look me up in City of Heroes; they just added a nightclub! (The /dance emote is nothing to write home about, though, even for someone who isn't spoiled by SWG.)
Oh, and /hug!
J.
Umiio "Umi" Panwanga • Rodian party girl • Bria
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