Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Tired of The complaining?
Page 1 of 2
Kevincole93
Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:30 pm
#1
I'm a noob Ch, Noob char. and noob to forums but I think CH's should just bite thier lips. I did find the Creature lvl bug annoying and all but SWG is MASSIVE, Things like that are Big issues BUT they are Bound to happen with such a large Game. I read complaints of Publishes being Pushed but I think if they weren't everyone would be mad that they weren't occuring fast enough.Think a second, With EVERY publish I have Lived through/read about We got SOMETHING right. Most are asking
100% Stability when Publishes go Live, but that isn't a reasonable request. With SO many changes in SWG you pretty much have to expect and except bugs. I know I am not hit nearly as hard as the other players with these bugs but seriously waiting 3-4 days for a fix IS NOT BAD. Remember real living people work at SOE and they have office hours, it isn't liek they have 24 hours a day to be fixing these bugs. I also think the Idea that SOE is trying to delete Non-combat proffesions is pure stupidity. First off there are too many non-com. professions to just drop it all. Second, If you think a bit, Non-com. proffesiosn are what build an MMORPG, if there were no non-com. proffesions it would just be another Starwars game for PS2 X-Box and PC, where you are a Jedi and you slaughter things with Lightsabers, which srry, but i can't stand.Whats a MMORPG if you can only buy items from shops. If there weren't Non-com. Proffesions Credits would be usless, Why not just give you credits when you kill things if they weren't intrested in Non-com. Proffesions? Also think of SWG's development on an economical scale, What did you do when you first Started SWG, I bet you Started getting up your CL. Why? Because it gives you this sense of Higher Rank, Self awardment i suppose. At any cost Promoting Combat is a good way to keep new players long enough to where they find out what they want to do and get cosy. Very little would buy SWG if it were souly Combatant or Non-combatant. The worst thing I see though is directing anger at Dev's and PR's (corrospondents, lol i just call em PR's). People act so cyniccaly, liek they are out to abolish thier proffesion. If there IS this much Argument bout non-com. proffesions SOE knows better than to shut them down. But back to Dev's and PR's, These people's jobs (yes, they breathe air) are to Keep you Notified, (well not the dev's but...) And yes there may be gaps where we are waiting for News but thats how it works, These PR's and such are often, Informed at a time such as that they cannot imidiatley announce, Ordered not to announce (yeah it doesn't seem right but i'll let you ponder the reasons for such behavior), OR, SOE just doesn't know what happened yet, they may Know WHAT happened but they have to FIND where they made a mistake. Acting liek PR's just totally ignore you is rash and an assumption often made without lookign into other evidence to the contrary.
As i said I'm not fully, not even close, to fully aware of the sevarity of some mishaps and such but I just think its time we hold on to the Game we love and take the ride, because sooner or later, It's going to be better.
Kevincole93
Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:32 pm
#2
I'm a noob Ch, Noob char. and noob to forums but I think CH's should just bite thier lips. I did find the Creature lvl bug annoying and all but SWG is MASSIVE, Things like that are Big issues BUT they are Bound to happen with such a large Game. I read complaints of Publishes being Pushed but I think if they weren't everyone would be mad that they weren't occuring fast enough.Think a second, With EVERY publish I have Lived through/read about We got SOMETHING right. Most are asking
100% Stability when Publishes go Live, but that isn't a reasonable request. With SO many changes in SWG you pretty much have to expect and except bugs.
I know I am not hit nearly as hard as the other players with these bugs but seriously waiting 3-4 days for a fix IS NOT BAD. Remember real living people work at SOE and they have office hours, it isn't liek they have 24 hours a day to be fixing these bugs. I also think the Idea that SOE is trying to delete Non-combat proffesions is pure stupidity. First off there are too many non-com. professions to just drop it all. Second, If you think a bit, Non-com. proffesiosn are what build an MMORPG, if there were no non-com. proffesions it would just be another Starwars game for PS2 X-Box and PC, where you are a Jedi and you slaughter things with Lightsabers, which srry, but i can't stand.Whats a MMORPG if you can only buy items from shops.
If there weren't Non-com. Proffesions Credits would be usless, Why not just give you credits when you kill things if they weren't intrested in Non-com. Proffesions? Also think of SWG's development on an economical scale, What did you do when you first Started SWG, I bet you Started getting up your CL. Why? Because it gives you this sense of Higher Rank, Self awardment i suppose. At any cost Promoting Combat is a good way to keep new players long enough to where they find out what they want to do and get cosy. Very little would buy SWG if it were souly Combatant or Non-combatant. The worst thing I see though is directing anger at Dev's and PR's (corrospondents, lol i just call em PR's). People act so cyniccaly, liek they are out to abolish thier proffesion.
If there IS this much Argument bout non-com. proffesions SOE knows better than to shut them down. But back to Dev's and PR's, These people's jobs (yes, they breathe air) are to Keep you Notified, (well not the dev's but...) And yes there may be gaps where we are waiting for News but thats how it works, These PR's and such are often, Informed at a time such as that they cannot imidiatley announce, Ordered not to announce (yeah it doesn't seem right but i'll let you ponder the reasons for such behavior), OR, SOE just doesn't know what happened yet, they may Know WHAT happened but they have to FIND where they made a mistake. Acting liek PR's just totally ignore you is rash and an assumption often made without lookign into other evidence to the contrary.
As i said I'm not fully, not even close, to fully aware of the sevarity of some mishaps and such but I just think its time we hold on to the Game we love and take the ride, because sooner or later, It's going to be better.
Kevincole93
Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:39 pm
#3
Garg, Srry for liek quadruple posting the four but how do I delete the others..and/or edit posts? lol
Indene
Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:01 pm
#4
Kevincole93 wrote:
I'm a noob Ch, Noob char. and noob to forums
Welcome to SWG and the most fun profession (despite the bugs) in it.
As i said I'm not fully, not even close, to fully aware of the sevarity of some mishaps and such but I just think its time we hold on to the Game we love and take the ride, because sooner or later, It's going to be better.
I sincerely hope you do not have to go thru 1/10th the problems and nerfs the Vets have suffered. Not just for your sake but for ours. 
-Indene-
frankenstienmonster
Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:09 pm
#5
well that ws interesting..
Ok first off could you please use paragraphs, that is one hard to read post. Second before the flame war begins and I pull out my camp and watch because this is going to get ugly.
I did not have the game pre-cu i am not a MCH but am working on it. However, even I was massively upset that our proffession was nerfed to hades and back. Beginner CH have only max CL12 creatures to use in battle....most of those do not do a great deal of damage at all but they must be used in order to get more CH Xp. At low levels tamming a pet is not the easiest to do but once you have one you want to use it. Pub 19 royally screwed the entire proffession up. What the CH were most upset over is that the bug was reported before it went live in the TC.
The CH ability to defend themselves was nerfed by the CU becasue they(SOE) believe the CH was overpowering. I do not know about this since I was not around so I cant comment but others here were and they have a right to complain that thier proffession was fubar.
Oh and to tell you I might be the only one that is not going to fan the flame Im just going to watch.
frankenstienmonster
Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:14 pm
#6
Indene wrote:
Kevincole93 wrote:
I'm a noob Ch, Noob char. and noob to forums
Welcome to SWG and the most fun profession (despite the bugs) in it.
As i said I'm not fully, not even close, to fully aware of the sevarity of some mishaps and such but I just think its time we hold on to the Game we love and take the ride, because sooner or later, It's going to be better.
I sincerely hope you do not have to go thru 1/10th the problems and nerfs the Vets have suffered. Not just for your sake but for ours.
-Indene-
Well to correct the not fanning the flames...indene was very polite so I will hush now.
Seiryuu
Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:12 pm
#7
I'll forgive you for being new to the profession. I hope you are enjoying it and stick around.
Our outrage stems from a plethora of things since the beginning of the game. Some of us are more level-headed about these things, some of us aren't, however the Creature Handler profession is one of the most long-suffering in the game. Now there are others that have also suffered, unfortunately ours has been a repeated target. A brief history.
* Beta - Only a few weeks of real testing occured for us, because pets would randomly delete themselves from your pad after a few hours. This was fixed very near the end. There were few, if any, full grown pets and the devs were up to their ears in getting the game ready for release when it had a long way to go.
* Live - CH was the undisputed king of combat. Honestly, we were overpowered because a master could have three pets of any tamable CL out. We could do this within 10 days, time enough for our babies to reach adulthood. Crafting professions would take months to figure out their crafting systems and obtain the necessary resources to make the best items.
* Publish 5 - December 2003. (We've had a few nerfs in all but one publish at this point, but you'll forgive me if I don't recall exactly what.) We are told a Combat Revamp is on the way and occuring in three stages. The first stage is rebalancing all creatures, and restructuring our tree to how it is now. The new profession tree was good. However, the new creatures were a joke compared to the now existing armor and buffs. We were playing under the "CU" while everyone else was under the old system. Special attacks were added, which was a minor compensation.
* Publish 6 - "Some pets are cowards." Pets would run from combat, and were almost unusable. Two weeks after, Thunderheart gives us that line in response. Two more weeks pass and they acknowledge they messed up. A few more weeks and this is fixed, however pet specials are now broken. Several pets types become extinct.
* Publish 7-16 - Waiting. The three month, three publish Combat Revamp never happens. There is some talk about it and things start slowly moving a year after we were revamped. More bugs crop up that greatly hinder play such as warping pets, autostoring, level 10 non-CH super pets, etc., ad nauseum.
* Publish 17 - CU. A year and a half after our revamp, the game changes. Creatures were not balanced yet. Specials, armor and other stuff is removed. (The CU as a whole isn't ready.) Creature Handlers are barely considered. More pet types are available at least, but the idea of "rares" are gone.
* Publish 17-18 - Constant adjustment of pet levels. Datapads constantly in flux.
* Publish 19 - Most pets are CL 1(0). People with CH cannot function at all. It is acknowledged (we're happy with that after so much inattention). Elite pets are reduced, so we panic (also acknowledged and more happiness).
Basically, in two years we have gone from an "uber" profession that while unbalanced worked when no others did, to being a shell with buggy gameplay. We were laughed at and pitied for a year and a half. No other profession has been hit repeatedly with nerfs and bugs and most importantly broken promises (well, Smuggler and Ranger on the promises). Honestly, moral around here has been abysmal, but there are people that stuck it out because of the pets. People held on because of them regardless of how bitter we got.
So when we get something game breaking like the CL 1(0) bug, when it had been reported the first day the code went to Test Center yet it goes live, we howl. It's a Pavlovian response because it's all we have known.
However, so you don't get the wrong impression from this post, we are starting to see signs of change. They addressed both issues with Publish 19 quickly and are starting to give us ideas about what is ahead. We're still wary, but as a whole we like communication and if they follow through with what we are told, we will be pleased.
Our outrage stems from a plethora of things since the beginning of the game. Some of us are more level-headed about these things, some of us aren't, however the Creature Handler profession is one of the most long-suffering in the game. Now there are others that have also suffered, unfortunately ours has been a repeated target. A brief history.
* Beta - Only a few weeks of real testing occured for us, because pets would randomly delete themselves from your pad after a few hours. This was fixed very near the end. There were few, if any, full grown pets and the devs were up to their ears in getting the game ready for release when it had a long way to go.
* Live - CH was the undisputed king of combat. Honestly, we were overpowered because a master could have three pets of any tamable CL out. We could do this within 10 days, time enough for our babies to reach adulthood. Crafting professions would take months to figure out their crafting systems and obtain the necessary resources to make the best items.
* Publish 5 - December 2003. (We've had a few nerfs in all but one publish at this point, but you'll forgive me if I don't recall exactly what.) We are told a Combat Revamp is on the way and occuring in three stages. The first stage is rebalancing all creatures, and restructuring our tree to how it is now. The new profession tree was good. However, the new creatures were a joke compared to the now existing armor and buffs. We were playing under the "CU" while everyone else was under the old system. Special attacks were added, which was a minor compensation.
* Publish 6 - "Some pets are cowards." Pets would run from combat, and were almost unusable. Two weeks after, Thunderheart gives us that line in response. Two more weeks pass and they acknowledge they messed up. A few more weeks and this is fixed, however pet specials are now broken. Several pets types become extinct.
* Publish 7-16 - Waiting. The three month, three publish Combat Revamp never happens. There is some talk about it and things start slowly moving a year after we were revamped. More bugs crop up that greatly hinder play such as warping pets, autostoring, level 10 non-CH super pets, etc., ad nauseum.
* Publish 17 - CU. A year and a half after our revamp, the game changes. Creatures were not balanced yet. Specials, armor and other stuff is removed. (The CU as a whole isn't ready.) Creature Handlers are barely considered. More pet types are available at least, but the idea of "rares" are gone.
* Publish 17-18 - Constant adjustment of pet levels. Datapads constantly in flux.
* Publish 19 - Most pets are CL 1(0). People with CH cannot function at all. It is acknowledged (we're happy with that after so much inattention). Elite pets are reduced, so we panic (also acknowledged and more happiness).
Basically, in two years we have gone from an "uber" profession that while unbalanced worked when no others did, to being a shell with buggy gameplay. We were laughed at and pitied for a year and a half. No other profession has been hit repeatedly with nerfs and bugs and most importantly broken promises (well, Smuggler and Ranger on the promises). Honestly, moral around here has been abysmal, but there are people that stuck it out because of the pets. People held on because of them regardless of how bitter we got.
So when we get something game breaking like the CL 1(0) bug, when it had been reported the first day the code went to Test Center yet it goes live, we howl. It's a Pavlovian response because it's all we have known.
However, so you don't get the wrong impression from this post, we are starting to see signs of change. They addressed both issues with Publish 19 quickly and are starting to give us ideas about what is ahead. We're still wary, but as a whole we like communication and if they follow through with what we are told, we will be pleased.
Novatic
Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:44 pm
#9
I dont wanna sound harsh, but maybe you should wait telling people what to do when you have barely mastered any profession?
I wonder why people bothers to play CH. I was CH about6 months total before CU, I gave it up. I respecced back at the CU, and I quickly respecced away. CH needs some fixes. Its not really worth the skill points in the long run. I really respec and admire those who has been CH for more than a year and still is.
Jurston
Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:59 pm
#10
I would have to say what the others say is about the truth . Before you can bash the ch profession or whatever prof it might be you must first walk in the shoes of them to truly understand the problems out there for creature handler or most any other profession. There are many ch out there that have been a ch for more then a year and respeced out done it once more even with the issues . Yes there are many issues with ch at the moment even with those you might find some ch verry happy with it for whatever it offers them . I myself adding up time from another server and the time on my current server as a mch it would be least over 2 years at least. I have seen issues since day 1 that are still there but can also tell some are verry verry slowly getting fixed if the dev's would ever get off the nerf bat or whatever they are using .
Thump69
Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:20 pm
#11
To continue on the great post above me, I've been a CH since I was in beta, I have actually been through almost every profession in the game (sans Smuggler) and I keep coming back to CH. Why do I do this, honestly I don't know, maybe I just like not being alone but I don't really want to deal with real people in groups, maybe I just like the whole idea of me having pets that I can raise and work with...whatever the actual reason for me doing it, the overall assumption on my part is this, I enjoy being a MCH and I enjoy having my pets.
I've worked hard to deal with the issues that CH has had over the years, sometimes I grin and bear it and hope things get better, other times such as these recent issues, it does royally make most of us CH vets quite angry. And even more-so now, I can't even call my best pets because the auto-adjustment isn't working...they will either auto-adjust to some extrodinary CL (one of my Grauls wants to be CL151), or when I attempt to self-nerf them by adjusting the stats, I get the "there is an error adjusting stats, no changes made" or something. Opening a ticket resulted in the "A hotfix for elites are coming, please wait", hotfix comes and I still can't use these pets...I paid dearly in time, credits, and cloning to get a lot of my pets...some of which I got from other MCHs only to still not be able to use them.
Now, take this comparrison...say you're some other combat profession and they make all weapons deal 1 damage and literally break after one use, would you think that this would be a problem? How about grinding Jedi XP only to get killed because your lightsaber now does no damage, breaks, and you're screwed? Could anyone imagine if perm-death was still in the game the crapstorm that would arise from this? This is the sentiment that most, if not all, CHs have had over the years...we've been shown that CH can work, we've also been shown that CH isn't a priority to get working again.
I, like a lot of other vet CHs, have pets still in my datapad that I've had since I became a CH on live...that's 2 years of holding a creature in there even though you could easily find a better replacement. After a while, I don't think of my pets as datapad lurkers, but as companion characters that I like to just interact with...be it with me foraging for food for them in the wilderness, playing with them, or just having a pet show here and there...they are there always and with no complaints from them. They will protect me if I desire, die for me if I ever need them to...it's a nice thing to have that adds another dimension into the game, as well as the gratuitously underused RP aspect.
So, in conclusions, like a couple others have said, please do not state that we're complaining without reasons unless you have been through what we have been through. Sure, some of the CHs can use a lot more tact, but that's the nature of the Internet and you can't expect everyone to be calm and collected when discussing topics that are close to them. There are a few of us who try to balance these people out though, at least you're lucky enough to get most of them here.
Also, the character in the sig is not the CH, my CH is on Bria as Aibed, look me up sometime if you're on that server and want to chat about the profession.
I've worked hard to deal with the issues that CH has had over the years, sometimes I grin and bear it and hope things get better, other times such as these recent issues, it does royally make most of us CH vets quite angry. And even more-so now, I can't even call my best pets because the auto-adjustment isn't working...they will either auto-adjust to some extrodinary CL (one of my Grauls wants to be CL151), or when I attempt to self-nerf them by adjusting the stats, I get the "there is an error adjusting stats, no changes made" or something. Opening a ticket resulted in the "A hotfix for elites are coming, please wait", hotfix comes and I still can't use these pets...I paid dearly in time, credits, and cloning to get a lot of my pets...some of which I got from other MCHs only to still not be able to use them.
Now, take this comparrison...say you're some other combat profession and they make all weapons deal 1 damage and literally break after one use, would you think that this would be a problem? How about grinding Jedi XP only to get killed because your lightsaber now does no damage, breaks, and you're screwed? Could anyone imagine if perm-death was still in the game the crapstorm that would arise from this? This is the sentiment that most, if not all, CHs have had over the years...we've been shown that CH can work, we've also been shown that CH isn't a priority to get working again.
I, like a lot of other vet CHs, have pets still in my datapad that I've had since I became a CH on live...that's 2 years of holding a creature in there even though you could easily find a better replacement. After a while, I don't think of my pets as datapad lurkers, but as companion characters that I like to just interact with...be it with me foraging for food for them in the wilderness, playing with them, or just having a pet show here and there...they are there always and with no complaints from them. They will protect me if I desire, die for me if I ever need them to...it's a nice thing to have that adds another dimension into the game, as well as the gratuitously underused RP aspect.
So, in conclusions, like a couple others have said, please do not state that we're complaining without reasons unless you have been through what we have been through. Sure, some of the CHs can use a lot more tact, but that's the nature of the Internet and you can't expect everyone to be calm and collected when discussing topics that are close to them. There are a few of us who try to balance these people out though, at least you're lucky enough to get most of them here.
Also, the character in the sig is not the CH, my CH is on Bria as Aibed, look me up sometime if you're on that server and want to chat about the profession.
QuantumArtist
Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:07 am
#12
Personally, I get tired of the whining and endless conspiracy theories also. You guys dont seem to realize you're sitting on one of the most potentially deadly professions in the game!
The mistake most people are making is using wild pets. Just yesterday I tried to sample alevel 75Malkloc bull (I have a MCH/MBE) and angered it. Without my level 70 BE attack pet guarding me, I'd have been an easy kill. Thank goodness I had him out! He stormed onto that malkloc like a tornado and ripped him to shreds! All I had to do was hit enrage and embolden and watch.
Point is, being a MCH/MBE, my overallcombat level is technically 54. Yet here I was, a level54,using a level 70 cat to kill a level 75 behemoth.
So consider the following;
- Being a Master CH gives you potential for more damage and tanking ability then the average level 54 is intended to.
- You can swap out your pets to suit a situation or your play style (I.E. Ranged or Melee? PvP or PvE? Damage or tanking?)
- Each pet has a health pool, which is like an extenstion of your own for a much higher collective total healthpool.
- If pets take most of the damage, your armor doesnt... low maintenance!
- Bio Engineers can make even stronger pets then you can find in the wild!
Check it out! I'm no fan of the "elite" pet craze. I think BE can make you a much better pet. The one exception is the Narglatch Trio when combined with the damage output of a rifleman. Talk about pain! You realize each on of those narglatches will hit for 250 damage each as you're popping your enemy for 1000-3000 a hit? Collectively... that will ruin ANYBODIES day!
Seriously, what 90% of the CHs out there are doing wrong is depending on "elite pets" which sport high health pools but poor armor and not using their heads.
Buy your pets from a Bio Engineer! They can ensure your pet has a respectable healthpool with significant protection and defenses. Without armor and defenses, your pets are fodder and always have been since SWG went public. Bio engineers are your friends but they're also only half the battle. You have to know what to use and when.
This isnt to say that CH hasnt had its problems, or hasnt been neglected. I definetly has. However, we're also grossly underestimated. This last bug should not have been nearly as devistating as it was! BE pets should always be a part of any veteran CH datapad. I found it disturbing to learn that so many CH found themselves with a whole datapad full of unusable pets and no BE pets to fall back on. This should never happen! There should always be at least one or 2 BE pets in your data pad designed to help you with certain tasks.
Llandros
Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:31 am
#13
i think you missed one very important point for a lot of ch's msot fo the fun of the professin for me comes fomr going out and spending days sometimes looking for a pet i really want, th excitment of taming it the satisfaction form training it and thne later using it knwoiung that I tamed this creature i trained it and this is my pet no one helped its a peronsal achievement just like rares used to be (i REALLY miss having rares to hunt down)
you can say use be pets all yu like but using a frankensteain creation lessesn the fun for me (and im a mbe on another server who until the cu hit specilised in pet creation(post cu im stll experimenting but msotly aiting for specaisl to get fixed so i cna actualyl make decent custom pets once more)) if all we had was be pets tamed fomr deeds id have never bothering becoming a ch if we ever get reduced to jsut be pets ill never tame again and most of the fun will be gone for me
wild pets ned to be viable because for amyn ch's be parts are not an option using thme lessens th efun we get fomr the profession and you souhldnt have to give up your fun jsut to be viable widl pets sohuld be you get what you get if you wnat something specific you go to a bio engineer who cna custom craft a pet to your specifications (subject to limitaitons on level) but be pets should not be the onyl viable options for many fo us that woudl ber a deathlbow to the profession
you'll never get me to use be pets as my companions but if you get be pets as the only viable option you will get me to stop buying pet stims as i wont need them anymore and imsure im not the only ch who dislikes using be pets (btw my non-ch characters have be pet mounts and do use them)
you can say use be pets all yu like but using a frankensteain creation lessesn the fun for me (and im a mbe on another server who until the cu hit specilised in pet creation(post cu im stll experimenting but msotly aiting for specaisl to get fixed so i cna actualyl make decent custom pets once more)) if all we had was be pets tamed fomr deeds id have never bothering becoming a ch if we ever get reduced to jsut be pets ill never tame again and most of the fun will be gone for me
wild pets ned to be viable because for amyn ch's be parts are not an option using thme lessens th efun we get fomr the profession and you souhldnt have to give up your fun jsut to be viable widl pets sohuld be you get what you get if you wnat something specific you go to a bio engineer who cna custom craft a pet to your specifications (subject to limitaitons on level) but be pets should not be the onyl viable options for many fo us that woudl ber a deathlbow to the profession
you'll never get me to use be pets as my companions but if you get be pets as the only viable option you will get me to stop buying pet stims as i wont need them anymore and imsure im not the only ch who dislikes using be pets (btw my non-ch characters have be pet mounts and do use them)
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