Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Remove the wait time or do it to everyone else
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Albwan
Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:04 am
#1
Cut yer excuses devs there is simply no reason for the delay to store or pull.
If thats the case penelize your precious flunky and goofy jedi the same amount of time to whip outtheir glowsticks.
Ill keep posting ignorance until you do the right or you ban me from these boards.
ZallusNuranxis
Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:15 am
#2
Albwan wrote:Don't give them ideas for the combat revamp
Cut yer excuses devs there is simply no reason for the delay to store or pull.
If thats the case penelize your precious flunky and goofy jedi the same amount of time to whip outtheir glowsticks.
Ill keep posting ignorance until you do the right or you ban me from these boards.
Kudali
Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:07 pm
#3
Tstorm wrote:
I think there are some reasons for the store/call timer, but I am not saying they shouldn't be adjusted. The reasons I can think of are:
1) Camps were intended to be the means by which players call pets, droids, and vehicles in the wilderness. Removing the call timer would completely negate the need for camps (causing Scouts/Rangers to be upset)
2) No call/store timer means a person with more than one pet in their datapad can quickly change pets in combat so that a pet with full HAM and no state effects is tanking.
I think #1 is weak since camps lost most of their value when it became possible to call pets, droids, and vehicles without camps with the 15 second delay. 15 seconds is small enough that even those able to make/use camps don't bother. To make camps more attractive, they need to be able to be used to heal BF or something like that instead of continuing to be attached with calling pets, droids, and vechicles.
With #2, I think there could be some adjustments made. If I don't have any pets out, I feel I should be able to call a pet, in combat or no, as fast as another combat profession can equip a weapon. For a CH a pet *is* their weapon. When the two Sith attacked me after the old man visit, I couldn't use my primary weapon (my pet) as I was attacked right at a shuttleport as I materialized and couldn't call my pet.
I think from a balance perspective, it isn't fair that I should be able to insta-call every pet in my datapad with full HAM, etc. Just because a Swordsman, for example, can change weapons during battle doesn't mean that's the same as a pet as a sword doesn't have HAM. I think the store timer is a fair compensation for that.
I agree that there is still a place for the timer, but it needs adjusting. I think that if the timer were simply placed on storing pets after combat it would still not allow a CH to continually have a pet tank because you would not be able to call more petsuntil the pet you have out is not in combat for 60 seconds (as the case is now). This would make a rotation possible, but only if you have lower level pets. It could give CH's the ability to now also change weapons (pets) in combat, but also the ability to pull pets out in emergencies while still not giving them endless amounts of pets.
-kudali
Tstorm
Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:19 am
#4
I think there are some reasons for the store/call timer, but I am not saying they shouldn't be adjusted. The reasons I can think of are:
1) Camps were intended to be the means by which players call pets, droids, and vehicles in the wilderness. Removing the call timer would completely negate the need for camps (causing Scouts/Rangers to be upset)
2) No call/store timer means a person with more than one pet in their datapad can quickly change pets in combat so that a pet with full HAM and no state effects is tanking.
I think #1 is weak since camps lost most of their value when it became possible to call pets, droids, and vehicles without camps with the 15 second delay. 15 seconds is small enough that even those able to make/use camps don't bother. To make camps more attractive, they need to be able to be used to heal BF or something like that instead of continuing to be attached with calling pets, droids, and vechicles.
With #2, I think there could be some adjustments made. If I don't have any pets out, I feel I should be able to call a pet, in combat or no, as fast as another combat profession can equip a weapon. For a CH a pet *is* their weapon. When the two Sith attacked me after the old man visit, I couldn't use my primary weapon (my pet) as I was attacked right at a shuttleport as I materialized and couldn't call my pet.
I think from a balance perspective, it isn't fair that I should be able to insta-call every pet in my datapad with full HAM, etc. Just because a Swordsman, for example, can change weapons during battle doesn't mean that's the same as a pet as a sword doesn't have HAM. I think the store timer is a fair compensation for that.
1) Camps were intended to be the means by which players call pets, droids, and vehicles in the wilderness. Removing the call timer would completely negate the need for camps (causing Scouts/Rangers to be upset)
2) No call/store timer means a person with more than one pet in their datapad can quickly change pets in combat so that a pet with full HAM and no state effects is tanking.
I think #1 is weak since camps lost most of their value when it became possible to call pets, droids, and vehicles without camps with the 15 second delay. 15 seconds is small enough that even those able to make/use camps don't bother. To make camps more attractive, they need to be able to be used to heal BF or something like that instead of continuing to be attached with calling pets, droids, and vechicles.
With #2, I think there could be some adjustments made. If I don't have any pets out, I feel I should be able to call a pet, in combat or no, as fast as another combat profession can equip a weapon. For a CH a pet *is* their weapon. When the two Sith attacked me after the old man visit, I couldn't use my primary weapon (my pet) as I was attacked right at a shuttleport as I materialized and couldn't call my pet.
I think from a balance perspective, it isn't fair that I should be able to insta-call every pet in my datapad with full HAM, etc. Just because a Swordsman, for example, can change weapons during battle doesn't mean that's the same as a pet as a sword doesn't have HAM. I think the store timer is a fair compensation for that.
Ax-Fire
Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:45 am
#5
I don't see a need for a timer at all. I seriously doubt it has anything to do with preserving theusefulness ofcamps. How many CH's run around with scouts/rangers or visa versa? Camps are needed for healing groups in the field. Removing the timer would have zero effect on the importance of camps, nor would it impact the ranger or scout professions..
The 60 second delay to store a pet after combat is even more puzzling. I'm sure it was done to prevent some exploit that only 3 or 4 people in the history of SWG ever used, but I find it to be just another annoying time sink.
I agree that they shouldn't allow you to call/store a pet DURING combat, but delays away from combat will never make sense to me.
Aakhperkare
Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:10 am
#6
A way to avoid the "exploit" of immediately storing a damaged pet and calling a new one if the timer was removed. While a creature is targeting your pet, your pet, whether you summoned it back to you or not will be on a defenseive mode until it is no longer targeted. So that way, once the creature untargets your pet or the creature is dead, you'll be able to immediately store your damaged pet and call a new one without any exploit and without a timer...
SkyPreacher1
Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:18 am
#7
Personally, the way our pets are right now, this isn't an exploit it's survival.
And explain to me how someone can get the message in the middle of battle, your pistol has been reduced by such and such and nothing stops you from switching to another pistol or rifle or anything. So if other combat professions can do this why can't we. And don't tell me our pets do more damage cause that is umitigated Horse apples, or that it's an unfair HAM advantage.
If pets were the panacea of the game why the heck do I end up in the Cloning center so often?
Aakhperkare
Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:23 am
#8
Very good points made, Sky. And there really can't be much as a counter point since all other combat professions can switch weapons in a few seconds time.
If our pets did the same amount of damage as an elite combat professions best weapon with specials, it may be an issue.
Again, unfortunately this is yet another thing on hold until they fix combat, because maybe, just maybe our pet's will be powerful once again...
If our pets did the same amount of damage as an elite combat professions best weapon with specials, it may be an issue.
Again, unfortunately this is yet another thing on hold until they fix combat, because maybe, just maybe our pet's will be powerful once again...
SkyPreacher1
Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:28 am
#9
I have the feeling our pets maybe nudged up a bit but I personally believe that the rest of the combat professions are going have a major cardiac arrest when they find out that their armor is now 30%, buffs aren't as good, and their specials vs HAM cost are more in line, meaning less HAM but far less damage. I mean I can hear the screams from the rifemen, TKA, swordsmen already. It's deafening and it hasn't even begun.
Aakhperkare
Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:32 am
#10
Here is an example of my main fear with the combat revamp...
Take the Rancor for instance. The devs in the past have said that a Rancor is a creature that is soloable, but shouldn't be.
Now, if you go by this thinking, and if Rancor's and other high CL creatures will finally be a thing to fear (as they should be) after the combat rebalance, and if we are able to tame these now unsoloable creatures...
...see the problems I am hinting at?...
Take the Rancor for instance. The devs in the past have said that a Rancor is a creature that is soloable, but shouldn't be.
Now, if you go by this thinking, and if Rancor's and other high CL creatures will finally be a thing to fear (as they should be) after the combat rebalance, and if we are able to tame these now unsoloable creatures...
...see the problems I am hinting at?...
Tstorm
Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:35 am
#11
SkyPreacher1 wrote:If pets were the panacea of the game why the heck do I end up in the Cloning center so often?
Indeed.
If your pet autostores during battle, the "weapon" for your profession is gone. If you get attacked while materializing at a shuttleport (such as the two Sith after the old man visit), you have no way of "equipping" your "weapon" since you can't call pets during combat. Even if your pet is out and willing to fight, heaven forbid if you personally get aggro (although that's usually more of a strategy thing).
The Devs don't want us having a datapad full of bull rancors and be able to swap them during battle to keep a fresh one going at all times allowing us to solo things we shouldn't be able to. I think that's pretty reasonable. What I would like to see changed are some of the rules the Devs implemented to prohibit this.
As I said above, the camp issue is moot. Give Scouts/Rangers another reason to use camps (healing BF is a good bone to throw them).
As for the exploit, pets aren't exactly like another profession equipping a weapon as a sword doesn't have HAM. It seems to me though that we should be able to call a pet anytime, but leaving the store timer in place would still prevent exploitation unless I'm forgetting something important. I think the Devs could be convinced to change it, but we have to propose a solution that still solves the problem they're trying to solve.
SkyPreacher1
Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:36 am
#12
Yup,
But what I see is that as a CH, unless I am very careful I can't solo enraged Rancors very easily. It takes me a great deal of time and I guess what I see is that really I am not soloing them in the sense of one player alone. It's always me and my pet, hehe we make a group just him/her and me.
Let me make a list of MOB's I think should not be soloable:
Bull Rancors/enraged Rancors
Kimogilias
Canyon/Giant Krayt Dragons
Night Sisters
DWB
Corvette
Large Imperial/Rebel camps with high end officers.
Tstorm
Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:20 am
#13
SkyPreacher1 wrote:
DIV>Let me make a list of MOB's I think should not be soloable:Bull Rancors/enraged RancorsKimogiliasCanyon/Giant Krayt DragonsNight SistersDWBCorvetteLarge Imperial/Rebel camps with high end officers.
Great list!
When I was reading the list, I was thinking "Yup, I don't go near that. Yeah, that's a cloning center trip."
I think pretty much any high end NPC is bound to make life difficult. I've seen some high level Tuskens in the Tusken Fort that are able to rip through my pets with some of the specials and damage they have. The Tusken Fort on Test Center isn't as camped as it is on Live servers and I went running for my life one time as I neared the pool under the fort and some BIG Tusken started ripping through my 11k HAM, 40% kinetic resist, light armored, BE'd gurrek and in less then 10 seconds it was down below 1/4 HAM.
Many things were much more doable when specials were broken on NPCs. Even with my Master Fencer, I find it a bit harder to do a camp of NPCs in the wild on Endor than a lair of animals and it is mainly because the NPCs have specials that can dramatically cut away at my HAM in a short period of time.
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