Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Remove the wait time or do it to everyone else
Kudali
Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:23 am
#14
Tstorm wrote:
As for the exploit, pets aren't exactly like another profession equipping a weapon as a sword doesn't have HAM. It seems to me though that we should be able to call a pet anytime, but leaving the store timer in place would still prevent exploitation unless I'm forgetting something important. I think the Devs could be convinced to change it, but we have to propose a solution that still solves the problem they're trying to solve.
I agree 100%. Seems like the store time could prevent exploits, but still allow us to defend ourselves in a crunch.
Wabit
Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:53 pm
#15
raynedog wrote:
First off, if it's having a time vs. having to be in a camp or city i'll take time.
The timmer isn't bad but like others have said needs work, lots-o-work.
1- Pet's can not keep up with speeders, not even mounts, so as a CH we are being left out of group activitys because people don't want to wait 15sec for yout to call, then 15 sec for you to store, on every single mission.
Possible solution: Give us a few high,med,and low level pets that can keep up, or remove timmer to call but keep the timmer for after combat. That way, you could tell you pet to stay, head to the next mission, store along the way, call when you get to the next place.
or just have a crate of camps- get to your misson drop a tent call your pets... takes 3 secs
2- It has been said that the time helps prevent the surpirse pet attack. You mean like when I get into a PvP battle and some one pulls out 3-4 diff weapons from the 2-3 profs they dabble in? Bottom line you never know what you are up aginst when it comes to PvP so what does it matter if you know they are a Ch or not? More reason to think twice before you attack that solo guuy with a TEF trying to do faction missions
not gonna chime in here, cause my belief is PvP neither of the P's sould be pets
3- Speaking of sudden, why is it that as a CH if I wanna go anywhere or do anything I have to constantly call and store both with a time delay? Bottom line, it makes more sense to have, no calls while in combat, delay after combat, no delay before combat.
read below
ok as a MCH i could get 20 BE'ed CL35's with AR1 and 60% kin resist 10k HAM... find any of the things that should not be soloable listed in a previous post... call 2 BE wonders out... have one attack the other in reserve... cycle them as needed... wait the 60 secs (have the datapad open)... store;peace; call new pet; go back to attack the mob... rince and repeat as needed...
there are always ppl looking to use whatever system that is in place to their most benifit... way back when there was not pet calling timer i saw a MCH taking out FS's on dant (the pre nerf FS's) doing something like this... i've used tactics like this to take out krytes but the 15 sec timer was in place, the way around it was to use tents but it this took about 5 secs from store to calling a new pet and closeing the camp...
the general popilation considers pets to be a defence not weapon... if you wanna compare putting a complete set of comp on to calling a pet... it takes 40 secs to put a complete set of armor on, during which you can do nothing else... but if you take away the call restrictions for pets you can store and call as you please... even with the 60 sec delay you can still fight...
think about it, how long was the /summon command in place before it became an issue... but then it got posted on the forums and with in 2 weeks it was was running rampent accross all servers... yes it got fixed, but for those long timers here remember how fixes usually effect CH's...
Wabit (flame on)
raynedog
Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:32 pm
#16
Wabit wrote:
raynedog wrote:
First off, if it's having a time vs. having to be in a camp or city i'll take time.
The timmer isn't bad but like others have said needs work, lots-o-work.
1- Pet's can not keep up with speeders, not even mounts, so as a CH we are being left out of group activitys because people don't want to wait 15sec for yout to call, then 15 sec for you to store, on every single mission.
Possible solution: Give us a few high,med,and low level pets that can keep up, or remove timmer to call but keep the timmer for after combat. That way, you could tell you pet to stay, head to the next mission, store along the way, call when you get to the next place.
or just have a crate of camps- get to your misson drop a tent call your pets... takes 3 secs
I shouldn't have to be a scout to be a CH. I shouldn't have to craft things if my whole template is set up to aviod crafting things. Should have to spend more skill points than I already have on MCH.
2- It has been said that the time helps prevent the surpirse pet attack. You mean like when I get into a PvP battle and some one pulls out 3-4 diff weapons from the 2-3 profs they dabble in? Bottom line you never know what you are up aginst when it comes to PvP so what does it matter if you know they are a Ch or not? More reason to think twice before you attack that solo guuy with a TEF trying to do faction missions
not gonna chime in here, cause my belief is PvP neither of the P's sould be pets
If neither of the P's should be pets then, neither should be posion either, or faction junk, or mind shots, or KD or Dizzy, or perhaps we should do away with spice as well? All those things are notthing more than ways for players to get the edge on other players in combat. So if CH is in game then make it worth something. Much like the smugglers are asking for thier prof to be made more valued and interesting.
3- Speaking of sudden, why is it that as a CH if I wanna go anywhere or do anything I have to constantly call and store both with a time delay? Bottom line, it makes more sense to have, no calls while in combat, delay after combat, no delay before combat.
read below(see below)
ok as a MCH i could get 20 BE'ed CL35's with AR1 and 60% kin resist 10k HAM... find any of the things that should not be soloable listed in a previous post... call 2 BE wonders out...(Don't blame CH for uberBE pets, that's a seperate prof, if you think BE pets are too stong, post in thier threads) have one attack the other in reserve... cycle them as needed... wait the 60 secs (have the datapad open)... store;peace; call new pet; go back to attack the mob... rince and repeat as needed...(I'm fairly shure from reading your post you are not a CH. This spin cycle exploit you are talking about could still be done as it is now, you just have to wait longer to do it. First off if you are attacking a high end mob like a night sister elder, and you send a pet in, you run the risk of being attacked, so hitting peace does notthing for you. So then you say well, run away, hit peace, change pets, but now your talking about something non CH do. bottom line the above described "exploit" just doesn't hold water in the real game.
there are always ppl looking to use whatever system that is in place to their most benifit... way back when there was not pet calling timer i saw a MCH taking out FS's on dant (the pre nerf FS's) doing something like thisi've used tactics like this to take out krytes but the 15 sec timer was in place, the way around it was to use tents but it this took about 5 secs from store to calling a new pet and closeing the camp...(So you calim this method works for you, fine I won't argue that, but you are saying that you do it anyway, it's just more of a pain now. So adjusting the call times like I said won't have much of an affect on these tactice. Besides, there are a great many player who are not CH using way more strange tatics to take out things they should not be able to solo. Changing the timer doesn't effect that, if you want the no solo list to be true to it's word then let's talk about CB)
the general popilation considers pets to be a defence not weapon...if you wanna compare putting a complete set of comp on to calling a pet... it takes 40 secs to put a complete set of armor on, during which you can do nothing else... but if you take away the call restrictions for pets you can store and call as you please...(I did'nt say take them away I said adjust them.) even with the 60 sec delay you can still fight...(What? Who needs to change armor in the middle of battle? Players are smart and 90% of the time if they are in a combat sistuation or think they might be then they already have the aromor and weapons equiped. Further more the delay to switch one weapon to another isn't all that bad since I see many PvP players doing it still and winning.
think about it, how long was the /summon command in place before it became an issue... but then it got posted on the forums and with in 2 weeks it was was running rampent accross all servers... yes it got fixed, but for those long timers here remember how fixes usually effect CH's...( I've been a CH since month 2 of live. I know how fixes normaly go with CH. I've felt the sting just as many times as anyone. However, what I'm talking about here is getting the timer adj, so it's less of a hassle to be a CH. The timmer just doesn't make sense in it's current state. i'll leave you with this point, when standing next to my house I can call a pet instantly, but not during combat. how the system works when standing next to or around your home is what i'm talking about. NO calls during combat, NO dealy before combat, Delay after combat to store. The system already works that way in town and around my home, this is what I'm talking about.
Wabit (flame on)( Sorry if you think that I'm flaming you)
Simaxus
Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:17 pm
#17
The timers are a bit annoying, but not much. The 60 second after combat timer only bugs me when Im trying to tame a baby that aggro'd on my pet. I cant tame thebaby cause he in combat. I can't store my pet because he keeps defending himself, but since this timer does prevent us from rotating thru pets during combat, it is a good thing. The call timer of 15secs isnt a problem, although, it should belonger if they wants tents to be useful for this purpose.
Calling pets while in combat does need to be changed, its too easy to be aggro'd by something from a long distance, and there is no reason we should not be able to call our weapon/armor. Armor may take 40secs to put on, but you CAN put it on. Now, as i remeber it, one of the big issues with CH was that it stacked with other combat professions, you could be a rifleman/ch and get the benefits of both at the same time. The popular fix idea was a "whip" something that we would hold in our hand so we could control our pets while preventing us from using another weapon. As I look back on it, this concept really ticks me off, since template stacking for defense purposes is the thing to do now, yet we are still limited. You can stack fencing and TKA, but not fencing and CH. Thats not right. We should be able to call pets in combat, we can already store them using the "store" command if we are in combat and the pet is not, just not from the radial menu, what sense does this make. I could even understand it we have to peace while we call our pets, make it so attacking stops the call, not being attacked or aggro'd from 80m away.
raynedog
Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:29 pm
#18
Calling in combat could def be misused but if the engaged in combat timer was a long one it would take away all of this exploit talk and give you the abilty to call during a battle. For instance if in combat it takes 60secs to store and 30 secs to call the thing or person you are fighting would have plenty of time to adjust or react to the new pet. Where the in combat calling system gets tricky is when you can call a pet, it gets Db, so you call another, and another and another. In PvP it wouldn't matter cause PvP battles don't really last that long and players can rip a pet apart in no time falt. In PvE it would deffeintly be an exploit, per say if you can get your pets to apply a DoT and then store, call apply Dot, store call you see where I'm going.
So bottom line is if they did allow combat calls then the time delay would have to be large to the point where CH proably wouldn't do it. However, calling a pet when not in combat shouldn't have a delay. Storing/calling after combat should though.
It is rather funny though that in this thread all of the sudden people are acting like it's the old days and CH are calling out 3 Giant Peko Peko's and going to town. For this issue all of the sudden we are this big threat, with our amazing BE pets and we can't possibly let the CH call them at will. Are these the same people that dropped CH as soon as it got nerfed cause it was no longer the be all end all of combat and don't know what it's really like to be a CH ?
meagor
Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:20 pm
#19
I STILL don't understand how the timers help prevent griefing....and the devs just keep saying, well if we told you...more people would do it. Perhaps...but come on,EVERY SINGLE combatprofession is able to switch weapons with only a 3 second delay...why not CH?????? I mean you can hang out the novice brawler title, equip some vibroknucklers and go overt. Yeah....who cares that you're a die hard PvPer with some serious tricks up your sleeve...it's all acceptable cuz you'reNOT a CH. But, OMG....a CH might just get into a fight with someone and spring a creature (or 3)on them. *GASP* that would be horrible...dare we say....exploit??? But a commando, whiping out the acid rifles and flame throwers or the CM's with their 900 per tick mind poisonson a whim??? Oh that's perfectly ok.
IMO the call timer is just WRONG and needs to be removed ASAP.
The timer only needs to be on the store side of the equation in order to prevent abuse (storing pets right before vitality loss). Other arguments for the time, IMO just don't hold any water, especially when you look at what all the other combat professions are able to do.
This is one of the reasons I'm leaving CH -the down time just doesn't make it worth it.Waiting around for 60 seconds after battle just to store...please. LAME
sodron
Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:58 pm
#20
the time it takes to call pets and store is one of the main i quit using pets. i can do janta/mokk missions in less time then it takes to call and store one pet, that can change after the combat revamp but who knows what will be changed or when that will come out. i still have part of ch and i like to go back using my pets but until they makes changes which includes getting rid of the timers i dont think i ever will, i would rather group with someone else
Wabit
Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:47 am
#21
i snipped alot out... too much to read...
raynedog wrote:
Wabit wrote:
raynedog wrote:
or just have a crate of camps- get to your misson drop a tent call your pets... takes 3 secs
I shouldn't have to be a scout to be a CH. I shouldn't have to craft things if my whole template is set up to aviod crafting things. Should have to spend more skill points than I already have on MCH.
how would you be spending more SP???? scout is a requirement for CH... at novice you get basic camp kits... don't understand that one... make friends with someone with a factory, give him the bone/hide needed for a crate of camp kits, which can be one harvest of each from an enraged rancor... craft one schemitic for basic camp kits... it'll take you a whole 20 secs and do it once... just make sure you have a few k of the same type... 2k hide/1k bone will render 8 crates of 25 camp kits...
not gonna chime in here, cause my belief is PvP neither of the P's sould be pets
If neither of the P's should be pets then, neither should be posion either, or faction junk, or mind shots, or KD or Dizzy, or perhaps we should do away with spice as well? All those things are notthing more than ways for players to get the edge on other players in combat. So if CH is in game then make it worth something. Much like the smugglers are asking for thier prof to be made more valued and interesting.
you remember the old days when you could have 3 of whatever pet you want??? it had turned into pet wars... this is supposed to be a galitic civil war... faction perks(which nobody uses) should be allowed... i understand what you are saying with the skills aloowed... but the simple fact is you are pulling out a new set of 10K HAM whenever you want... you can make a single person and make them into a virtual neverending cycle of more, all ya gotta do then is kite while you store/call new pets (sounds alot like jedi forcerun)... or pull out high tick area poision, store it and call a high area disease (only found on wild pets)... CMs have this same ability but you talked about SP earlier alot more...there are so many more ways i could go on here...
3- Speaking of sudden, why is it that as a CH if I wanna go anywhere or do anything I have to constantly call and store both with a time delay? Bottom line, it makes more sense to have, no calls while in combat, delay after combat, no delay before combat.
read below(see below)
ok as a MCH i could get 20 BE'ed CL35's with AR1 and 60% kin resist 10k HAM... find any of the things that should not be soloable listed in a previous post... call 2 BE wonders out...(Don't blame CH for uberBE pets, that's a seperate prof, if you think BE pets are too stong, post in thier threads) (BE pets are fine the way they are... i like to pick what specials i wanna use and the resists i want, it was actully a complimeant to skilled BE's) )have one attack the other in reserve... cycle them as needed... wait the 60 secs (have the datapad open)... store;peace; call new pet; go back to attack the mob... rince and repeat as needed...(I'm fairly shure from reading your post you are not a CH. This spin cycle exploit you are talking about could still be done as it is now, you just have to wait longer to do it. First off if you are attacking a high end mob like a night sister elder, and you send a pet in, you run the risk of being attacked, so hitting peace does notthing for you. So then you say well, run away, hit peace, change pets, but now your talking about something non CH do. bottom line the above described "exploit" just doesn't hold water in the real game. actully i have had csr's called on me for this tactic... was told it was borderline... my reply to that was ok fine i'll go get a kryte stuck on a harvestor then... was told i do that and it will lead to banning) and if you are a ranged prof once your pet picks up the agro there is 99% chance that a single mob will do no damage to you, and you will be able to peace out... if you doubt these things i've said try them yourself... i'll even send you a PM for a step by step on how to do them... it took alot of deaths at the hands of endgame mobs to figure out exzactly how to do it...
there are always ppl looking to use whatever system that is in place to their most benifit... way back when there was not pet calling timer i saw a MCH taking out FS's on dant (the pre nerf FS's) doing something like thisi've used tactics like this to take out krytes but the 15 sec timer was in place, the way around it was to use tents but it this took about 5 secs from store to calling a new pet and closeing the camp...(So you calim this method works for you, fine I won't argue that, but you are saying that you do it anyway, it's just more of a pain now. So adjusting the call times like I said won't have much of an affect on these tactice. Besides, there are a great many player who are not CH using way more strange tatics to take out things they should not be able to solo. Changing the timer doesn't effect that, if you want the no solo list to be true to it's word then let's talk about CB) its not about the call time, its about the store time... take that away and CH will once again be the i-win button... it doesn't take the majority of players to get something good broken, its the minority...
the general popilation considers pets to be a defence not weapon...if you wanna compare putting a complete set of comp on to calling a pet... it takes 40 secs to put a complete set of armor on, during which you can do nothing else... but if you take away the call restrictions for pets you can store and call as you please...(I did'nt say take them away I said adjust them.) even with the 60 sec delay you can still fight...(What? Who needs to change armor in the middle of battle? Players are smart and 90% of the time if they are in a combat sistuation or think they might be then they already have the aromor and weapons equiped. Further more the delay to switch one weapon to another isn't all that bad since I see many PvP players doing it still and winning. have you ever been in the vette or DWB... heck even after a few NS or dragons can trash at least a few peices of armor...
think about it, how long was the /summon command in place before it became an issue... but then it got posted on the forums and with in 2 weeks it was was running rampent accross all servers... yes it got fixed, but for those long timers here remember how fixes usually effect CH's...( I've been a CH since month 2 of live. I know how fixes normaly go with CH. I've felt the sting just as many times as anyone. However, what I'm talking about here is getting the timer adj, so it's less of a hassle to be a CH. The timmer just doesn't make sense in it's current state. i'll leave you with this point, when standing next to my house I can call a pet instantly, but not during combat. how the system works when standing next to or around your home is what i'm talking about. NO calls during combat, NO dealy before combat, Delay after combat to store. The system already works that way in town and around my home, this is what I'm talking about. the reason you can call it next to your declared residance is because the game considers is to be a perminant camp... which leads right back to the very first point of camps i have 5 houses on 3 planets, none of which are in a city... the only place you can call anything without a timer is your declared residance
Wabit (flame on)( Sorry if you think that I'm flaming you) (not flaming just a debate, CH have said no evidance of an possible exploite so i give one)
Nuttynoah
Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:52 am
#22
thier is no point to it what so ever, just do away with the stupid timer or put the timer on every other profession when he/she go's to use a weapon, and see how many complaints the dev's get then, and see how quick thay remove the stupid timer then !!!
NO CAPTAIN, I SEE NO SHIPS JUST HARDSHIPS
Gyorgy
Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:00 am
#23
The only real problem i see concerning that topic is with the store timer. If everyone would be able immediately store his/her pet in combat (and call it again right after) you could always quick-cure poison, bleed, disease or fire.
If you are not fighting i see no necessity to have a 15 secs wait for calling (ranger camps have enough extra functionality, no pet call special needed). Plus if i'm not mistaken you can never call your pet while in combat? I think that's just unfair. Especially if somebody has no good fighter prof and is just relying on his/her pets, what if you get pulled down your bike by some npc or creature while riding somewhere and you can't even call your pet then?...
jopenack
Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:31 am
#24
I believe the reasons for timers might have seemed justified however like many things in this game when applied means very little.
If you have been in battle and lets say your pet was inc'd and you revive it, for this example lets pretend we are on dath and a few N-Sisters spawned on you and you servived, by the time you revive your pet and head for the hills any nearby spawn or respawning N-sister can take you out before you could swap out pets and you are now cloning at a base and your pet vit has taken a hit.
I have had this happen to me if I was allowed to swap pets quickly then I would have a chance at having protection while escaping a bad situation. We already are time limited with bikes why should we suffer both.
The fear of PVP and constantly swapping out pets might apear just but in reality isnt, since in PVP our pets are a minor distraction and can be cut down in seonds by most combat professions.
If anything the time limit should be set to 5 seconds reguardless of being in battle or not. and while the CH is still fighting they can keep the unable to call rule. when a fight is over a time limit is useless and a danger.
Just another example of the fears and paranoid rules that have plagued CH since launch.
Also please remember startship times have been lowered after a long long debate. I dont think it coincidence they were lowered to 5 min after the Combat Revamp delay news broke and havoc followed. I believe it was a bone to quiet some of the mass anger that followed.
We wait constantly in this game and they say its needed for code and implementaion reasons. I wonder if the real reasons we wait for ships, pets, droids, bikes, the oldman, sith, stat migration, any ID change, a key or code disc spawn in a caveor dungeon, is to kil a little more time so it takes longer to accomplish our goals and in the end we wind up paying for 3 months more for our gameplay before we are bored and quit.
Its all about the money in the end not player satisfaction.
P.S. I am sure many happy dev/soe supporters will come and tell me that they need this for immersion, coding reasons or data accessing time and whatever else they have beeen programmed to say lol if your trying to convince me your wasting your time ive seen enough in the last year to prove its the all mighty dollar that is glowing with the force here not customer satisfaction.
Now we wait for news of the next combat revamp lol seems ive been here before.
MrHawat
Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:31 am
#25
the general popilation considers pets to be a defence not weapon... if you wanna compare putting a complete set of comp on to calling a pet... it takes 40 secs to put a complete set of armor on, during which you can do nothing else... but if you take away the call restrictions for pets you can store and call as you please... even with the 60 sec delay you can still fight...
This is a bad analogy. I wear composite armor. I can equip it once and wear it for weeks without fooling with it. Can you say the same for your "pet armor?" I do not have to worry about my comp dissapearing while I ride or fight. The game does not require me to heal my armor after each battle. I do not have to take my armor off after each lair to allow me to get to the next in a reasonable time. I do not find myself standing in my underwear in the middle of a battle. And last, but not least, anyone with the right stats, can wear it. You could be a novice artisan and be able to use the best in the game. They do not have to grind one of the hardest professions to master to use crappy "pet armor."
Wabit
Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:24 am
#26
jopenack wrote:
IAlso please remember startship times have been lowered after a long long debate. I dont think it coincidence they were lowered to 5 min after the Combat Revamp delay news broke and havoc followed. I believe it was a bone to quiet some of the mass anger that followed.
no the devs changed the starport wait so i didn't get the i've waited for more than 9 mins for a shuttle 100 times badge... i think i was at 98...
as for codeing issues for starport waitsis BS look at theed... no wait time there... you must rememebr that the only reason there is a 15 sec call timer now is because of bikes... before it was in a camp, a city, inside a house or outside near your declared residance where you could call any pet... and when we got this perk as a community CH was happy... i see alot of old school per dec nerf ppl posting here, so you remember what it was like walking everywhere, having to use a camp to call your pet (also remember when there was wait timer for calling anywhere)... this game has sped up emmencly (sp?) from the beta they released and called it ready for the public... it has a long ways to go yet... the only real reason for most of the wait times is to keep us playing the game, because it is seriously lacking in any content...
i honestly beleive that the timers are set at a reasonable time... 60 secs to store after combat seems fine, that way if the pet is bleeding or poisioned it makes the ownerwork some to heal it... disease is nothing really, feed the pet and it all goes away (tricks for the mind)... remember it could be you that poisioned/diseased... and there is really only 2 ways in game to heal that one is the doc route the other is TK med line...
if you don't like the call time before combat use what you've spent your valuable SP on and craft a tent 10 hide 5 bone and 20 secs to click on everything... think of it as one of the things that seperates scouts from nonscouts...