Creature Handler Archive

I'm back for 10 days, mostly to visit old friends and re-fill the pets' feed-bags, then I'll be off again for ... well, who knows how long? Given the current hazy schedule for implementing fixes to combat and the GCW, the things I was hoping to enjoy in the game, it'll be a long time.

As all long-time CH's know, we were made irrelevant in PvP and GCW when we were 'pre-balanced' with massive capability reductions, allegedly in anticipation of the 'imminent' Combat Balance (nine months ago, now?). We've never recovered relevance in PvP or GCW. What would do it? Here's four easy steps ...

1. Medium armor -- obviously there should be some pets who don't have tissue paper for armor. Even better if some Master-only pets had an attack form that armor was useless against.

2. Mounted combat, the Master/Master bonus -- an MCH who is also a Master in a ranged combat prof (Rifle/Pistol/Cabine) should have access to their Special attacks while mounted. There's no logical or balancing reason not to allow this. Give mounted combatants a defensive penalty -- reduce their dodge for sure -- but a Master/Master should still know how to aim for the head.

3. Force-resistant pets -- somewhere there should be a pet which can be sampled by BE's to produce force-resistant variations of existing high-level pets. The Jedi Plague spreading across the servers makes CH's more irrelevant than ever in PvP and the GCW.

4. Fix existing capabilities -- make pet specials work the way they're designed to, and reliably.

It's not rocket science, and it wouldn't take much developer time .... just more than zero, which is what the profession has received since it was pre-balanced into irrelevance.

Message Edited by slave138 on 10-06-2004 02:07 PM

I'm not sure I agree that CHs are irrelevant but the suggestions are interesting. I guess I just see relevence in shades of grey instead of only black and white (and I do agree that CH's aren't balanced in power with other combat professions).

The idea that caught my eye the most and got me thinking (not that the others are bad!) was the mounted combat one. Why can't a MCH fight on a mount at full speed (or increased speed from the slowed during combat speed now) as well as use specials (or at least an appropriate subset -- doing a flying kick from a mount probably isn't realistic!)? I agree it doesn't make much sense and would be a heck of a boon to CH's.

I do think we will see a more balanced profession compared with others following the combat rebalance. It is unfortunate it's taking as long as it is to get to it, but unless the Devs want to *increase* power of professions to create balance, I think they are justified in taking it slow to give combat professions a decrease in uberness.

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slave138 wrote:

I'm also back for the 10 daysand have noticed the same things, but you forgot we are now irrelevant in PvE, too (unless you count using us to get better missions in "solo groups")

Message Edited by slave138 on 10-06-2004 02:07 PM

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I would disagree on being irrelevant in PvE. I solo all the time, since I'm levelling Rifleman. I can tell you that while as a 0-0-1-1 I don't have several Rancors to back me up. . .yet, my pets have helped me out in the wilderness. I was out hunting with a friend of mine who is an MCH, and his pets were a tremendous asset to us.

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Tstorm wrote:

I do think we will see a more balanced profession compared with others following the combat rebalance. It is unfortunate it's taking as long as it is to get to it, but unless the Devs want to *increase* power of professions to create balance, I think they are justified in taking it slow to give combat professions a decrease in uberness.

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DarthMarksman wrote:

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slave138 wrote:

I'm also back for the 10 daysand have noticed the same things, but you forgot we are now irrelevant in PvE, too (unless you count using us to get better missions in "solo groups")

Message Edited by slave138 on 10-06-2004 02:07 PM

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I would disagree on being irrelevant in PvE. I solo all the time, since I'm levelling Rifleman. I can tell you that while as a 0-0-1-1 I don't have several Rancors to back me up. . .yet, my pets have helped me out in the wilderness. I was out hunting with a friend of mine who is an MCH, and his pets were a tremendous asset to us.

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I'm a wookieeMCH with 2,3,0,3 in rifles and I can take all but the biggest PvE opponents without even calling a pet - and I haven't really tried the bigger ones yet so I might even be able to take them. Even with my less effective wook armor and a handful of buffs, the damage heals faster than I can suffer it. If I, with no combat mastery, can solo most mobs without using my pets I'm pretty sure most people could do the same.

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slave138 wrote:

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DarthMarksman wrote:

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slave138 wrote:

I'm also back for the 10 daysand have noticed the same things, but you forgot we are now irrelevant in PvE, too (unless you count using us to get better missions in "solo groups")

Message Edited by slave138 on 10-06-2004 02:07 PM

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I would disagree on being irrelevant in PvE. I solo all the time, since I'm levelling Rifleman. I can tell you that while as a 0-0-1-1 I don't have several Rancors to back me up. . .yet, my pets have helped me out in the wilderness. I was out hunting with a friend of mine who is an MCH, and his pets were a tremendous asset to us.

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I'm a wookieeMCH with 2,3,0,3 in rifles and I can take all but the biggest PvE opponents without even calling a pet - and I haven't really tried the bigger ones yet so I might even be able to take them. Even with my less effective wook armor and a handful of buffs, the damage heals faster than I can suffer it. If I, with no combat mastery, can solo most mobs without using my pets I'm pretty sure most people could do the same.

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That's fine. I'm a Wookie Rifleman 3-1-1-2 and I haveno realtrouble, but the pets I call have been a help to me, if for nothing else, tanking just a bit. Granted they are not as powerful as yours, since I'm just using them for CH XP more than actual combat, but I've seen pets be helpful to a group in combat. How relevant they are in PvE is subjective. Some CHs think they should be able use their creatures as mainline combat, others see them as companions there for support. I would fall into the latter category, I suppose.

As a Master CH/Pistol I never feel underpowered vs. NPC's or mobs in PvE ... it's the sharp contrast of how comparatively worthless I become against another player in PvP, in fact, that's so discouraging.

I don't think every MCH should want to PvP. Many of them will combine MCH with another non-combat profession and be completely happy. But someone looking to build a successful MCH/combat template for PvP has been crippled without hope for a looooong time now, and it does not need to be so. The changes to fix it are not major at all. Mostly they involve un-breaking the things they broke when they pre-balanced us.

We will have heard the 'on it won't seem so bad when the Balance happens' story for over a year at least if we actually wait for a Combat Balance to fix this problem. There is no scenario in which I see that as an acceptable answer.

Irrelevant, in this sense, means that you can accomplish just as much with out pets. As it stands now pets are a liability that need useless medical attention costing more money. You can invest in Uber Kinetic Armor and with 3 hour Doc buffs amass a breater fortune without pets scaring the mobs 100M away (the warp bug). You do not have to worry about pets not following, getting stuck, or being fascinated by rocks. You can not have to worry about pets not following the /tellpet commands assigned. One is better off being TKM and having no worries.

ALL THAT ASIDE, I love CH and will continue to list bugs as often as possible until they are acknowledged. At this point, I am not certain they have been or ever will be.

I know for a fact, Ronda of Lucas Arts knows that CH was told that CH was prevamped 10 months ago.

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DarthMarksman wrote:

That's fine. I'm a Wookie Rifleman 3-1-1-2 and I haveno realtrouble, but the pets I call have been a help to me, if for nothing else, tanking just a bit. Granted they are not as powerful as yours, since I'm just using them for CH XP more than actual combat, but I've seen pets be helpful to a group in combat. How relevant they are in PvE is subjective. Some CHs think they should be able use their creatures as mainline combat, others see them as companions there for support. I would fall into the latter category, I suppose.

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KzinKiller wrote:
As a Master CH/Pistol I never feel underpowered vs. NPC's or mobs in PvE ... it's the sharp contrast of how comparatively worthless I become against another player in PvP, in fact, that's so discouraging.

I don't think every MCH should want to PvP. Many of them will combine MCH with another non-combat profession and be completely happy. But someone looking to build a successful MCH/combat template for PvP has been crippled without hope for a looooong time now, and it does not need to be so. The changes to fix it are not major at all. Mostly they involve un-breaking the things they broke when they pre-balanced us.

We will have heard the 'on it won't seem so bad when the Balance happens' story for over a year at least if we actually wait for a Combat Balance to fix this problem. There is no scenario in which I see that as an acceptable answer.

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CH was never all that good in PvP. The threat from the creatures was rarely more than psychological as any decent PvP'er knew the key to defeating creatures was to just take out the handler. Granted, there were enough piss-poor PvP'ers that whined about our pets to get us nerfed a number of times, but pets are really only good when used as tanks. Even then, they are only good tanks when your opponent doesn't know enough to go around them.

On the related topic, a pet that could drain a Jedi's force-powers would be a nice addition to the MCH arsenal, too .... just something that a Jedi would actually have to stop and think about instead of just another thing to give them a chuckle when they see a CH.