Creature Handler Archive

Thread: State of the Creature Handler Profession: October 2005

enigma_writer
Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:23 pm
#1


Greetings


I have been a master ch since the game launched in June 2003 and feel that the CH profession as it stands today is completely different then when I put on my master title for the first time and began to explore swg. Creature Handler originally was a very highly sought after pvp profession but when the infamous december nerfs of 2003 hit us we were forced to focus on a more limited group support role in pvp while very effective at pve. The CU system has revitalized the CH profession as we got in pub 21 a new special systemthat with it came a new system of grinding to both age the pets and train them specials.


Pet Specials System


When I first saw all the specials and what would be required to learn them all I was at first very reluctant to learn any of them. The sheer number of specials gave me a grim first impression that it was going to take a long time to learn any of them. However being a optimist I went out on my first day off after the pub 21 and started taming specials and grinding those specials out. I say taming specials because as the system stands now most CH are taming creatures for their specials and not for the pet


What I like about this system:

It can be customized to the pets so each pet in datapad can be customized with any special you chose.

You can learn the specials by afk grinding the pet. It has allowed me to learn the special while am working so when come back can go out and tame more specials and continue my gameplay focus of going out in the wilderness hunting and taming.

That unlocking specials is based on # of creatures is killed not experience points. I know there is some debate in the CH community about this issue but have no doubt that getting specials is based on pet kills based on own experience and feedback from veteran BEAST members.


What I dont like

There is way too much grinding in this system. The grind for the higher lvl creatures really needs to be looked at because it can take several million xp to fully grind a pet. Multiply that by 20 and u got a grind comparable to a Jedi grind. What this has also done is CH will now only grind a handfull of pets leaving the others unused.

The focus on taming wild creatures is based on getting specials and no longer about the creature themself. The first question I was asked when finally got my Stoneskin Hanadek was what special did I get and have CH destroy such pets if they dont have specials.

That the drop rate on some specials is rediculous where I had to tame over 40 giant spat babies before got the special intim 1. There needs to be a higher drop rate on specials on the lower lvl creatures.

That some specials in the game are apparently missing such as imperieling feint 3.

The current system is very difficult for new players to learn and can become so frustrated they will either change professions or stop playing the game.


Status of Creature Taming


The trophy hunting aspect of CH is all but done. Elite pets are no longer apart of the game making them all generic with very little variation between the creatures of comparable creature level. What is more alarming about wild creatures is they no longer have any chance of beating a bio creature of comparable cl as a Bio creature can be made with much better stats. Even if a wild creature is fully trained with specials it stands little chance of beating a bio made pet. The only aspect of wild pets which cannot be found in a bio pet is they possess area attacks and you need to tame wild pets to learn specials.


Likes for wild pets:

There are still some challenge to tame wild pets. Especially those that only statically spawn such as Stoneskin Hanadek, Wild Dune Boar, Great Plains Stalker, etc.

There are some wild pets that have distinct area attack such as: Stoneskin Hanadek, Blood Frenzied Boar Wolf, Boar wolf ravager. Put marrying lvl 3 on those with some other solid specials and they can be very effective pets.


Dislikes:


Bio pets are better then wild pets in every aspect. A bio pet can easily take down any tamed wild pet with the only disadvantage being wild pets can be tamed with an innate special giving them a one special edge.

The hardest pets to find are no longer the best pets. A Great Plains Stalker is only lvl 50 with only average stats and for a creature so hard to find it should be one of the best pets or at least have unique abilities no other pets have.

That currently on some worlds it is hard to find wild pets due to worlds being barren at times. This is more apparent during the weekdays where not as many people play.


CH in PVP


CH is still limited to a support role. Not that it matters as Jedi now dominate every aspect of PVP but have found that if a master ch choses to master BH to go with CH if they chose to pvp against Jedi by getting missions they can be effective. A jedi with good ranged attacks matched with a well trained pet at least has a good chance of beating a Jedi in Pvp. In addition sense pets no longer suffer vitality loss in pvp there is really nothing for the CH to lose to attempt to attack a Jedi. If the CH wears good armor, has a solid weapon, and has pets with excellent specials then the CH can find great challenge in dueling a Jedi. It will still not be easy to take down a full template Jedi but it is possible and very challenging.


CH PVE


If you train a pet in lvl 3 aggression they can hold the aggro of creatures really well and when a pet is fully trained in abilities a lvl 70 creature can take on a Krayt or other high level mob and be able to defeat it. If the CH masters BH they can also go for those higher end BH marks and be able to beat them with a lvl 65-70 super made bio pet.


Last thoughts


I think the CU did achieve a goal of giving CH the much needed new content and new abilities to make pets effective again. Problems with CH and PVP are more related to pvp being dominated by Jedi then the current system for CH as I wonder how CH would fair if this system was introduced in the beginning of the game when there were no Jedi playing. I do hope that SWG will do something to make certain creatures like the Great Plains Stalkers the best wild creatures again and give wild pets something unique that will make them preferrable to use instead of wild pets. I still think that the experience grind also needs to be looked at and addressed so that the pet aging is not linked to the experience grind so that if a CH does not chose to grind that creature they can still use it as an adult size.
Dodece
Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:52 pm
#2

I like your post but some conclusions are faulty.


1. CHs can pvp effectively now I have done it and it works its just knowing whats important for pvp and how you want to pvp with a pet. From my experience self sacrafice is a very definite plus. It acts as a armor buff for you the ch and if you have healing makes it exceeding hard to put you down. You need to tinker a bit to find out how you want to pvp. We are able to swing both through group support or one on one trust me on this. MCHs are takeing down high level jedi need I say more.


2. Bio engineered pets are supposed to be better then wilds. The new system promotes getting wilds to learn abilities. Also though some wilds have secret abilities as I have begun to call them. The bloodseeker mite queen does a area attack that stuns blinds and dizzys with one swing. Stoneskins and giant pharples do area attacks. As time goes on I am sure people will discover more little cuties in the wild. In effect wilds are worth more now then they ever were before. Also from what I understand BE pets get 8 special slots wilds can have up to 12. If that is the case wilds have a role. Especially if you want to stack alot of states on an enemy. Player crafted items are always supposed to be supperior if BE pets werent supperior BEs would no longer be able to sell pets. I have a bloodseeker mite queen a sheer mite soldier and young reptilian flier that aint going anywhere.


3. The high xp is an old argument. Long before ch got this. Some people will always feal its too high many will feal its too low. I feal its fine at its level. You will either thrive or fail but its no fault of the system. You can max out a level 70 in a few days good grinding. If its too easy people feal no accomplishment and its doomed to be diminished like the jedi or MBH. If its too high people lose interest. The fact that it can be done in a little over a weekend is sign that its okay. You do not have to focus on grinding either you can take your time and have fun with your pet and it will level in due coarse.


4. Tameing is much like looting some creatures have a higher instance of specials then others and it can be tedious. Make a point of knowing other dedicated chs on your server that way you can trade up inate ability pets. Aslong as the pet has not been fought you can trade it to someone else and they can learn that ability. Saves alot of time and hair pulling.


5.The pet xp system is a generator in that everytime you fight the pet be it against a lvl 1 or a lvl 82 the system does a roll to see if you win the ability. Everytime you roll a pet though the likelihood or rolling it right increases. Example.


No rolls you have a 1 percent chance of learning the ability. 1 roll you get a 10 percent chance. 2 roll you get a 20 percent chance. 3 rolls you get 30 percent chance. Until eventually you cannot help but roll 100 percent. The fact that killing yard trash works is because you are killing hundreds of things each time with a 1 percent chance. Eventually you get lucky. Though there is the chance you could go for 12 or more hours without scoreing.


I have scored an ability on the first kill with a pet and others it took 600 kills. Its a dice roll generator. You can win by stacking the deck by rolling the pet or by continually haveing at a small chance of success. Both systems work. This is the old smuggler sliceing generator from my guess. Learning the abiltiy seems to be akin to a smuggler sliceing for 35 and not getting it on 300 slices. You want a good example get a pair of dice and precede to roll the number 2 and number 12 are the rarest. This is why vegas works my friends.



EllieCo
Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:04 am
#3

I'll be honest ... I'm beyond bored with CH. I've tamed some amazing pets (sorta) but like Miltek said, all pets are just generic. Too me theres no fun with a bio-pet. I think I'm gonna drop CH again!



Bloodfin: Vomitore / Abbath-Immortal. The last of the TRUE metalheads! -I-
Bria: David-Lee
Valcyn: Vomitore/Fergalsut
enigma_writer
Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:13 am
#4

Dodece


Bio petsmay not have that extra 3 slots but their better engineered stats more then make up for that. I am going to try to play around with my stoneskin hanadek and also soldier sheer mite as they have very nice abilities and features.

JBCrichton
Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:55 am
#5

I am a MBH/MCH and the new specials really help fill in the gaps of my template. True, before the 03 nerf our pets were awesome tanks. I could put my greater sludge panthers up against the whole fort tuskin(which also got nerfed in the cu) and could walk out fine. LOL now i can walk in w/o a pet and be fine, they are al CL27 and lower. But that's not my point, my point is the specials you can learn like intimidate is something i do not have in my arsenal w/o the pets. I find because of the grind though that i tend to let my cl70's sit and use 3 cl23s all the time. The dps is greater with 3 lower than with one max lvl. A rancor or kimo should always be able to kill 3 lvl 23's. Cmon, you can't even solo a kimo lvl 80 even being a lvl 80 yourself because they are considered gold level boss marks.


The specials did help, and it put wild creatures back in the game. I don't know what BE's are like on other servers though, but the BE i use on kettemoor can make giant pets at cl70. This kinda still makes the tamed pets look weak. If you lvl up a tamed pet it should keep growing with experience gained. I have a BE humbaba that is as big as an ATAT, kinda sillly but it leaves everyone in awe.


I haven't hunted jedi with pets though yet, i need to augment more specials. I mainly just hunt boss level npcs for the loot drops. CH really helps here. 3 bio'd kwi lvl 23's with fantasic regen work great, but w/o those tamed specials they are still lacking. An I still own the first greater sludge panther i ever tamed. At one time it was a lvl 35, now after many nerfs it is a lvl 23 , but still my baby.





They say you should never hit a person with a closed fist, but on occasion it can be hillaroius.
jopenack
Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:10 am
#6

Enigma as always it is an enjoyable read and honestly written.


I may disagree with some of it and agree with much of it but now is not the time to agrue about playstyles and opinions since we each have our own way of playing and our own opinions.


Well thought out, well written and probably needed on a quarterly basis here lol


Thank you.






SHADOWFIRE - MASTER CREATURE HANDLER / MASTER RIFLEMAN

TEMPEST MTK/MD - WANDERHOME MT/MM -???-???

"Creature Handlers are not 1% of the population, they are over the 50% mark, the 1% excuse is a flat out lie"
Dodece
Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:13 am
#7

Honestly though 4 special abilities lost is a serious hurt. Remember pets fill multiple rolls in this case say you wanted a pet to deliver L2 states you quickly find out that you really havent the room to do that with a BE pet
Cerestan
Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:47 am
#8

It's worth noting vitality loss is still in PvP, lost vital on two out of 3 pets yesterday.


Seems any pets that are incapped when you're deathblowed will lose vitality, this was the same pre-CU.


DaBudo2
Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:05 am
#9


Well done and well said, Milteck! I agree with most of your "analysis" and the little bitty things that I don't agree with aren't worth mentioning. You nailed what I see are the major issues (good & bad) with CH on the head.For me, the unfortunate thing is that about the only thing I like about CH anymore is that I'm able to customize my pets - I love that. It'ssuch a funconcept.


There aretwo biggies for me that you mentioned that have all but sucked the fun out of CH (again, speaking only for me). Hate the grind. Really hate the grind.I alsohate that it doesn't matter what kind of pet that I tame. It's turned into a tame & toss profession and, as silly as this sounds, I no longer feel any real connection with my pets.I can't help butview pets now as just tools to tame. Oh, and I hate the grind.


A couple of other things that I don't like but don't feel quite as strongly about. I also don't like that BE is better than wild. There should be a better balance: BE better in some aspects, wild better in others. I agree that the BE stats make up for lost slots for specials. AndIdon't like that we weren't provided with more info about what the specials do or how you obtain them. The new system is more complicated and more info should be provided.


Overall I can't say I'm too happy about the current State of the Creature Handler Profession. Though I'm not sure how much of that is because it's just new (and who likes changes ) and how much of it is because of real problems.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. G. Marx

Pickaroon - MCH, Master Pistoleer, Elder Geek
BOTHEN! WOOHOO!
enigma_writer
Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:41 pm
#10


Dabudo2 wrote


There aretwo biggies for me that you mentioned that have all but sucked the fun out of CH (again, speaking only for me). Hate the grind. Really hate the grind.I alsohate that it doesn't matter what kind of pet that I tame. It's turned into a tame & toss profession and, as silly as this sounds, I no longer feel any real connection with my pets.I can't help butview pets now as just tools to tame. Oh, and I hate the grind.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________


I agree with you 100% on this point as the current system does notencourage CH to have any connection to the pets you are taming for specials. Like last night I went out and tamed a an Elder Snorbal on Lok just to get BEASTLY CON1. When I learn that special that pet is done.


However I do still possessmost of my old wild post cu pets such as my GPS and Bull Rancor. Even if I find new ones I will still keep those as have had them to long and went through a lot to get them.
Laaba
Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:51 pm
#11

/bump



Good original post an Good follow up posts



Its because I hate this grind so much that now since I am done with it [I think have ??? on some "unknown" abilities] I am willing to help any MCH on Corbantis. As stated in another post I will train any of your pets for FREE if you don't have the ability yourself.







The BEST 3 pet names I have ever seen are.... DearSOE PleezFix DaBugz
enigma_writer
Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:30 pm
#12

bump
JMShunter
Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:53 pm
#13

the grind should be less for sure and pets do loose vit in pvp. Good job enigma



Roguestar





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