Creature Handler Archive

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Juggalosaurus wrote:
The reason I ask is because it would make MUCH more sense if the animals were fed "edible resources" like meats, vegetables, or oats instead of Chef prepared food.

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That's an incredibly complicated idea, that would take a very long time to implement...but it's a still a good idea.

The only major problem that I see with this reallyis that it would require a huge change in the fundamentals of how the creatures in SWG work. They'd have to be split in to genders, then they'd have to have a secondary rarity on each species for which gender babieswere easier to come by (you think it's hard to find some babies now, just wait until you're trying to find a Female Bull Rancor, then realize that "Bull"means Male!). Then the babies would have to be given genders, and some sort of equation to decide what stats carried over from thier parents ( like special attacks, light armor, ect.) would have to be put in place.

You'd also have to have something to decide which creatures from each species were considered "compatable." Like with my Bull Rancor quip earlier, what would they breed with? A regular Rancor might actually weaken the baby. Or are you going to set it so that you have a chance to get a baby Bull, or a baby rancor, with the bulls being male, and all regular rancors being female?

And: if they're making babies, then the babies need to grow up. If the structure can only hold 4 adults and 2 babies, what happens when the 2 babies grow up? Then you've got 6 adults. There has to be some sort of regulator for that, somehow. I'll leave it for someone else to come up with THAT idea. =p

And of course, wouldn't a Bio-Engineer be more likely to be the doctor for animal diseases, since they not only create animals, they alsomake all of the pet meds?

Also for BE: in regards to DNA sampling, don't make it automated. Make it so that the BE has to do it themselves, and they MUST have permission from the CH (if it's not the same person) for each individual creature. Maybe the overall quality of your DNA sample could be increased, since it's done in a controlled environment. The insta-death possiblity is absolutely necessary in the case of something like this, otherwise, as you mentioned, it would get abused and noone would ever sample regular creatures because they could just sample the corraled ones forever. This could actually turn in to a new way for CH to make money! Sell rights to kill your pets with DNA sampling!

As for Droid Engineer Interdependancy, why not make them an optional part of the larger breeding structures? Relating to your idea about auto-email for diseased animals, why not make that a feature of the later Creature Structures that have droid parts built in to moniter animal health? Like the ones for Empathy and Master?

I agree that this should be a visible structure. It would be an AWESOME addition to any town, and really makes you more like a rancher than just a normal CH. Just throw a nice corral behind the guildhall that you're using for a house, and noone will EVER question the fact that you're rich!

But also, for the simple fact that these could easily get out of hand, there should be a 1-structure limit on the breeding facilities. It would just get out of hand if you had 2 corrals running a total of 60 creatures (48 adults and 24 babies). Even just 1 corral and 1 manger could overbalance too much.

Oh, and I LOVE the idea of a Kennel. It would have to be a CH-only structure, and be unusable if you dropped CH. You could make it like a vendor, so you can charge people per ability that they have your kennel train. You get absolutely no exp off of the Kennel of course, but it's a way for us to make money, andnon-CH charswho buy BE pets wouldn't have to search for a CH to train thier pets anymore...they could just take it to a kennel. Unfortunately, this might also have the effect of screwing us over on free training exp.

Cross-breeding...I think that's going a bit far for now. Save that for after this whole thing actually gets set up. Besides: isn't that what BE's already do with DNA samples?

Babies at full stats....would be nice, but it's really not a good idea. The growing baby restrictions are in place now for a reason. It makes us actually take the time to get used to our pets, or at least slows us down from getting a pet, deciding we don't like it immediately, and then destroying it and grabbing a different one. This way we have to wait to find out what it's full capabilities are when it grows up.

With the vitality loss thing, that's easy to fix. Simply put a parent/child/sibling variable in to the mix.Parents will not breed with thier children, and not with thier grand children, and siblings will not breed. This gives enough lee-way to keep the stock fresher, because you'll HAVE to get new creatures to keep breeding.

Oh yeah....and you're just a tad off on your math for the Corral...i think you had it at 16 adults with 8 babies, but you forgot to change the babies to 12 when you changed adults to 24.

Dyxon Calamin: CH 3324

i held myvoice in the first thread.... but after seeing this, i have to ask.

Do we really need this?

I know that I as a MCH, i really don't see a need for this.

FRG Power Co.
...........................................................

All Radioactive 1cpue 
Fraggers Island Mall on Corellia!

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Isorg wrote:

i held myvoice in the first thread.... but after seeing this, i have to ask.

Do we really need this?

I know that I as a MCH, i really don't see a need for this.

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Isorg, I don't have much choice but to support the idea. You ask a very valid question, but really one we cannot answer since we have no idea where the game or profession is going. I think it's important to keep throwing new ideas out there.

It hurts to say this, but the devs know the bugs in the game. I think we'll do better with content ideas that may get picked up.

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Pluto9Moon wrote:

This by far looks more and more better each time it is reposted. Thanks to Robo(Thank You)for cleaning up my math errors on maintenance and thanks to everyone one of you who have contributed. There have been more discussions on breeding lately and some of them seem plausible and should be developed out more.

I think overall we should increase th requirements in getting these structures to furthure deter dabblers

Manger

Gained in Creature Taming I: Basic Domestication & Managment I

Monetary Maintenance: 30cr/hour (720cr/day)

Food Required: 1/pet/hour

Animals Held: 4 adults (2 babies)

Lots Required: 1

DNA Sampling: No

Stable

Gained in Creature Management II: Advanced Organization & Tamming II

Monetary Maintenance: 60cr/hour (1440cr/day)

Food Required: 1/pet/hour

Animals Held: 8 adults (4 babies)

Lots Required: 2

DNA Sampling: No

Barn

Gained in Creature Empathy IV: Consonance of Will & Tamming IV

Monetary Maintenance: 90cr/hour (2160cr/day)Food Required: 1/pet/hour

Animals Held: 12 adults (6 babies)

Lots Required: 3

DNA Sampling: Yes

Corral

Gained at Master

Monetary Maintenance: 120cr/hour (2880cr/day)

Food Required: 1/pet/hour

Animals Held: 24 adults (8 babies)Lots Required: 4

DNA Sampling: YES

Monetary Maintenance is self explanatory. I have not altered it up or down as of yet. Any monetary payout should expect some decent payback. If this idea simply gets reduced to you can have stables that display pets without any real function I would ask that they be reduced.

The power requirement is removed as of this version. Future power requirements would be battery based on Milk Maid or Birthing droid modules. IMHO The Birth droid idea should be dropped since it seems like a useless complication, the Milk Droid however I support and on the topic of batteries, I suggest that the droid cost 20 charges a week, being a Master Artisans I hpoe I get me numbers correct but 20 charges should be alot I believe that the average batterie comes in a charge of around 5 and that a cratre holds 5 batteries, so that would cost alittle under a crate of batteries a week, and right now batteries aren't selling I cnabarely give them away so they should be cheap, though since the droid publish I aven't tried to sell batteries again.

Food is necessary to keep any animal healthy. It is required to keep animals. If the food is not available, animals will have a base 5% cumulative chance per hour of catching a disease. This disease is only curable by a doctor. Any disease animal increases the chance of any other animal’s disease check by 10%. For example you have 4 food items left in a Manger that holds 5 animals. The fifth one dramatically fails its check of 5%. The next hour each of the 4 animals that will be missing food would have a normal base 5% plus an additional 10% because disease already exists in the Manger. This brings the check up to 15%. (Foraged Food should be allowed to be used here). I think that instead of hourly it should be every 12 hours, seeing how if someone forgets to feed that pets there coul dbe around 14 or so hour till he could log on to do so and if thats 5 percent chance is cumalative there is a very good chance thats the pets will be diseased. And if there is a 10% chance of other animals recieveing this disease then by the time this poor shlub can log on his entire hear dcould be diseased, and depending on how quickly the can get them healed which might be in excess of 6 hours he(he is just easier to say,) might have his whole heard dieseased and he would be in deep sh*t.

Lots Required is self explanatory but let us append this to read that only one such holding structure can be placed at any given time per CH. If you have a Manger you cannot have any of the other 3 structures. Yes supporting of the 1 type per character/toon, basically it means dont buy one right away or its gonna cost you a whole lot to keep upgrading.

DNA Sampling. See Interdependencies-Bio Engineer.

Interdependencies

Architect: The structures have to be made. These could be made with the same template for resources as harvesters. I suggest that barn and corral be atleast as complicated to build as a Large house, for the Corral it should be as complicated as a Guild Hall. Manager=Large Havestor, Stable=Medium House, Barn=Large House, Corral=Guild Hall

Droid Engineer: Possibly for the Milk Maid Droid and we have dropped the idea of DE making any component require for the structure itself. Vet bot was also offered. Birthing Droid module. Birthing droid Idont support and vet bot I am against whole heartaly, thre is already enough automation in the game and stuff that happenes when you dont play, also it adds more complication at this poin twhich should be focussin gon what we can streamline to make this a more viable Idea. Milk Droid I am in favor of, we gave a whole lot up to the Rangers, but I do respect there views. But I want to keep the milk Bot, and as it was discusses in Version 1 have the milk have better quality.

Ranger: Instead of a Tranquilizer Dart (this is exploitable imho) the Rangers could have a Box Trap. The Box Trap could be some simple 1 time use structure or a more permanent structure like a harvester. Simple structures could capture 1 creature at a time and be place in Inventory much like a BE pet deed. What would be greatest about this idea is if Rangers can capture those pets not allowed to be tamed by CH currently. These mobs after captured by the Ranger would then have a TAME tab. Making those CL70 and below mobs that all CH want to be able to tame, tamable (wow thank god for spell check I have been spelling it tameable). This is a major compromise in which CH gets nothing back from the Rangers at all except the chance at more content through economy. Alternate Idea: the pets that the Rangers catch souldn't be tameable, since the F1 generation is never demosticated. But of course we will buy the Rangers Adult pets if breeding is implemted, they capture 2 we pay that large premium then we breed them and get a Tamable F2 generation to sell. I support this alterant Idea this would also stop a supreme number of addults being captured and then automatically sold, plus then if they could be sold then there goes my Genetics Idea.

Doctor: These will be needed to heal diseased animals. It is my preference that we form some automated email system to allow us to know if an animal becomes diseased. I support doctors being our animals care professionals cuase I believe even Vets must attend some medical school IRL.

Bio Engineer: This to me seems the trickiest of all to implement. I have placed DNA Sampling in the Barn and Corral only. It seems that if everyone could do it there is less motivation to get nearer Master CH. What we need here is feedback. If it is automated then is 1 sample per hour enough with 16 creatures in a Corral? That is some 384 attempts per day. What success/failure rate is applied? Do we place an insta-death stipulation such as BE have already? If it is automated then where do we get the DNA sampling Droid? THIS REALLY NEEDS FEEDBACK. It lacks any real focus. Some BE do not want it, some think it’s great. (note: numbers reduced) Okay here is my idea on this the Sampleing would need to be manually done. Sampling for this would be given at MAster Bio-Engineer. Instead of an animal dying if there is a failure, how about each animal only get 5 samples to it, then it becomes genetically unviable. That prevents one person from having 1 animal, and constantls sampling it. Okay here is My idea manual sample,need to be Master Bio-Engineer to sample, increase number of sample from 5 to 10, and make it so there is no such thing as a failur when sampling since theotretically the animals would be restrained when this is happening, just making it so there are varrying degrees of succes each with an increase stats value(Never Been a Bio-Engineer so I odnt knwo hwo the whole process works)

CH’s want this to be a visual structure. Something where things can be displayed and no some extension of a data pad. It is my understanding, we also want a way to make an access fee (in playing devil’s advocate I am almost certain this will require the Artisan Business I Skill). Now we have the problem with size, but how about underground, I thought of this because of the caged animals underground in the warren. I would prefer abovegroud but the size might be a problem. Now I thought you shot me down when I mentioned the warren, anyway the minimum size would have to be atleast the footprint of 2 PA HAalls, but I have an Idea think of it as a Parking garage you can have a top leve and say 2 sub lvls, then using an interface you can deiced on which lvl to have which pets so u can choose how they are displayed Also since when structers underground are usually only loaded when u enter them this would save alot of server strain.

Focused Future Discussions:

Breeding:

If we breed there could be a midwife bot. Mortality of any creature fits into Darwinism. But through modern technology many survive people survive in technologically advanced countries that may not have a chance in underdeveloped nations. Assigning a base mortality rate for new births and or stillborns could be worked out.

What statistics could really be affected: Damage as some representation of breeding stronger and stronger animals with each other? This would allow only and F1 and/or F2 generations. Speed: an increase in normal Base Movement Rates?

I agree with the below attribute but...

SPEED: so we can evenually breed those fast mounts that we want finnally. the max speed should be somewhere close to current vehicle speeds not as fast since we can attack on a mount but close to it. There should be trade offs, if the animal is trained for speed it should have lss attack power or ham just to balance it out again. Then again I would love to host the first Cu-Pa derby.

HAM: so we can eventually breed a good tank thatll shield us from the mobs. this should have a min and max cap for the type ov animal I.E. durnis cant have 10k HAM but Rancors cant go below 5000. Each animal has a indpendently generated HAM so you can breed for specific levels Health Action or Mind, or just a general improvement in all of them.

ATTACK: This would have two parts Speed and Damage, so you can get a fast attack with reletively low damage, or high damage with a realitivly low attack speed. agian this would have a min/max level set but it should vary widely so with an "attack" breeding program we can get a critter upto the max level for that speices

COLOR: each species has color template that it can be so we have to breed to get a specific color by mixing and matching the animals.

SIZE: each species should have a small medium and a large model and we can breed to try and get a small critter or a large one.

In asking for breeding, we CH must stay conscious of the fact this comes dangerously close to the BE territories. Keep in mind no one wants to breed mutants. Sub-species interbreeding would be ok. Voritors with Voritors. Rancors with Rancors. Graul with Graul. There is a different though Be get to choose what they want this would be mostly random. And Maybe like you said no Razorcats and Gurrecks, but Graul Maulers and Frenzied Grauls Would be okay.The defining differenace between of and BE is that first off we youd be confined on what we can make, for example grauls, using the grual line no natural graul has heavy poison, so unlike a BE Graul we could never get a heavy poison graul of our own, and wher a BE has an Idea where the stas will come out ours would be random with only a general questimate. AND NEVER ANY INTERSPEICES BREEDING! So being hwo its randomness and in the special arena we can only have specials that are natural toto species line.

Another Breeding aspect that seems like a nice plan is Babies that come out with fullgrown stats. They grow in size but the stats start as adult stats.The stas would grow as the pet grows.

Robooutlined a nice simple little Selective breeding process for color. Any animal that looks normal in color could be homozygous for normal, but might be heterozygous for recessive. Then of course there is more of a gene blending thing where something that may have a green color if it were GG is bred with a rr and has a brown color because it is Gr. Then of course there are the sex determining chromosomes X and Y. Again this short version is not the high amount of colors used by BE and therefore just some simple selective breeding fun in the stable. Yes colors should only be like 3 or 4, and more and the Combinations would be so complex that it would be come extrememly difficult to code.

Cross-breeding

Would it be something to breed a wild typeX with a BE skin mutant typeX and get half the difference in the F1X generation?BE pets should be considered sterile.

DNA Sampling.

All Sampling must be manually done by a BE.

Vitality Loss

I think this is doable, to a certain degree.

First, I think it should be implemented if the structures have commercial value. Let me explain. I want to breed and I throw X pets loose. I should not have the same stock forever without loose. Rotation of new blood into any gene pool is almost always needed. Without some random X factor like inbreeding this may not seem necessary. But in the long run it will simulate the breeder’s real world aspirations to keep the gene pool from stagnating. Vitality will help simulate this.

Second, if someone were to want a museum type storage structure then there must be a non commercial stable. No droids could be added and no birthing could take place. In this type structure vitality would not be lost. Keeping this irreplaceable rares pristine would be quite feasible. Lastly, the best case scenario is one in which placing the structure gives you the option to pick commercial or non-commercial prior to adding any pet. Re-deeding could reset this switch (possibly?).

Connected Vitality Harvesting or simply Cullening the Herd.

An aspect not discussed in great detail is allowing Rangers to harvest the herd. This may be traumatic for the weak at heart but it could be feasible to allow Rangers to Harvest from the animals contained. This would be a feat with finality. Once every so often your friendly local ranger could stop by and harvest for 2 times the normal harvest rate because you have taken better care of the creature than it would have gotten on its own in the wild. Why have your pet go to waste is I am gonna tkae old yella out to the back to do well you know I cna have me ranger friend come by and um re-calim the animal lol

Kennel Facility

LOL. I threw this out earlier now I am fishing for some feedback. Would anyone be interested in a facility were people could drop off pets for automated training based on the CH skills you currently have, automated CH taming/training so to speak. For example, Joe Newb buys a CL10 bantha for a mount. He wants it trained. He has not cracked the deed yet. He comes to the Corral places it in an empty stall hopper. He types in all the commands in wants via some radial menu/dialogue box. He types the name. He comes back 4 days later to a fully grown and trained mount. CH’s set their own price for stall fees and never have to get bothered waiting for shuttles again. Alternate Plan: :I dont like this idea completly, but here is what I am thinking people who hav epets in there data pad maybe a non-ch of something or a low lvl ch wants some more room. So you have a terminal in you kennel where the pet will be stored for x amount of time and for x cr/hour. No training will be done but the pet could grow. While stored. Both I deas I find accepetable, but #1 I like more.

New Tailor clothes

spreadsheet how about some chaps, lol. Real ranchers do not wear aprons.Unless its time to eat the herd.

Skill tree placement of structures.

I originally placed this in some random order with domestication being the first one required for a purpose. These are totally random and not something even I see as final.

Ok there it is. Again, I really do not mind yay and nay, but for clarity sake if you disagree tell us/me why and offer an alternative if you have one.

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Message Edited by RoboFish on 05-05-2004 05:08 PM

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Dyxon wrote:

That's an incredibly complicated idea, that would take a very long time to implement...but it's a still a good idea.

The only major problem that I see with this reallyis that it would require a huge change in the fundamentals of how the creatures in SWG work. They'd have to be split in to genders, then they'd have to have a secondary rarity on each species for which gender babieswere easier to come by (you think it's hard to find some babies now, just wait until you're trying to find a Female Bull Rancor, then realize that "Bull"means Male!). Then the babies would have to be given genders, and some sort of equation to decide what stats carried over from thier parents ( like special attacks, light armor, ect.) would have to be put in place.There are 2 approaches to this one is that there could be an equally rare Matriarch Rancor, or that there are only (Male) Bull Rancors and you would have to breed it with a (Female) Rancor/Enraged/EctForgot other Rancor Tyoes)

You'd also have to have something to decide which creatures from each species were considered "compatable." Like with my Bull Rancor quip earlier, what would they breed with? A regular Rancor might actually weaken the baby. Or are you going to set it so that you have a chance to get a baby Bull, or a baby rancor, with the bulls being male, and all regular rancors being female?My Answer above kindo solves this but seeing how pull rancors are supppppose to be supper rare using a (Male)Bull Rancor and a (Female) Enraged Rancor mgith be a goo compromise to keep Natural Bull Rancors still as valuable as they are now while still being able to get something in-between.

And: if they're making babies, then the babies need to grow up. If the structure can only hold 4 adults and 2 babies, what happens when the 2 babies grow up? Then you've got 6 adults. There has to be some sort of regulator for that, somehow. I'll leave it for someone else to come up with THAT idea. =p Thats could be a selling point to buy a bigger structure, and its artificcial cuase you to eighter sell th epet or harvest it. so its a constraint which I could live with and you could choose to replace one of the adults with a baby that you created.

And of course, wouldn't a Bio-Engineer be more likely to be the doctor for animal diseases, since they not only create animals, they alsomake all of the pet meds? I would prefer to give it to docotors because would like to leave BE out since they get enough stuff and for the reson I put in Plutos post, how a docot is more like a vet and a BE is more liek a scientist.

Below I answered in Plutos Post for the most part.

Also for BE: in regards to DNA sampling, don't make it automated. Make it so that the BE has to do it themselves, and they MUST have permission from the CH (if it's not the same person) for each individual creature. Maybe the overall quality of your DNA sample could be increased, since it's done in a controlled environment. The insta-death possiblity is absolutely necessary in the case of something like this, otherwise, as you mentioned, it would get abused and noone would ever sample regular creatures because they could just sample the corraled ones forever. This could actually turn in to a new way for CH to make money! Sell rights to kill your pets with DNA sampling!

As for Droid Engineer Interdependancy, why not make them an optional part of the larger breeding structures? Relating to your idea about auto-email for diseased animals, why not make that a feature of the later Creature Structures that have droid parts built in to moniter animal health? Like the ones for Empathy and Master?

I agree that this should be a visible structure. It would be an AWESOME addition to any town, and really makes you more like a rancher than just a normal CH. Just throw a nice corral behind the guildhall that you're using for a house, and noone will EVER question the fact that you're rich!

But also, for the simple fact that these could easily get out of hand, there should be a 1-structure limit on the breeding facilities. It would just get out of hand if you had 2 corrals running a total of 60 creatures (48 adults and 24 babies). Even just 1 corral and 1 manger could overbalance too much.

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Go Kennel!! Ideas once again in Plutos post

Oh, and I LOVE the idea of a Kennel. It would have to be a CH-only structure, and be unusable if you dropped CH. You could make it like a vendor, so you can charge people per ability that they have your kennel train. You get absolutely no exp off of the Kennel of course, but it's a way for us to make money, andnon-CH charswho buy BE pets wouldn't have to search for a CH to train thier pets anymore...they could just take it to a kennel. Unfortunately, this might also have the effect of screwing us over on free training exp.

Cross-breeding...I think that's going a bit far for now. Save that for after this whole thing actually gets set up. Besides: isn't that what BE's already do with DNA samples?

Babies at full stats....would be nice, but it's really not a good idea. The growing baby restrictions are in place now for a reason. It makes us actually take the time to get used to our pets, or at least slows us down from getting a pet, deciding we don't like it immediately, and then destroying it and grabbing a different one. This way we have to wait to find out what it's full capabilities are when it grows up.Agree full stast no good.

With the vitality loss thing, that's easy to fix. Simply put a parent/child/sibling variable in to the mix.Parents will not breed with thier children, and not with thier grand children, and siblings will not breed. This gives enough lee-way to keep the stock fresher, because you'll HAVE to get new creatures to keep breeding.

Oh yeah....and you're just a tad off on your math for the Corral...i think you had it at 16 adults with 8 babies, but you forgot to change the babies to 12 when you changed adults to 24.

Dyxon Calamin: CH 3324

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And thats the end of that chapter

--H.J.S

From the logistics POV, I wonder if it would be easier just to create one building (or property) where the ratings advanced as you advance. It's kinda pesky to have to pick up, move, and find another location every time you want to upgrade. Actually maybe just call it a corral and rate it I-IV.

Breeding is an area you really need to give a lot of thought to, or at least any kind of cross-breeding. That's a major dynamic rewrite that requires it's own subsystem.

We need this broken down into blocks that can be accomplished. i.e. Corral is a structure that holds animals and build from there. It's more likely to happen if we realize the steps to build it.