CUEmu - Thread Posts

BlindTyldak

Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:25 am

I've been putting a lot of thought into it, and while I know many people don't agree with me, BE'd pets are what's going to keep us from getting fixed so that we're actually useful as a profession on our own again. Seriously, read through some of the threads on here. We're constantly reading about 12k CL 10 animals, people saying"I always hunt with my CL 68 BE'd buttpicker with 90% resists", or "My best animal is some insane thing that I should not be able to have".

I know that pet-checks is bugged, and so does the Devs, but they don't say they're going to fix it. The comparable power of the BE'd pet actually far exceeds the graul maulers of old . . . or it will in a couple of months.

Come the combat reballance, it's not the power of the CH that will get us in hot water, its the power of these animals. If we're actually ballanced to everything else, you know that people will be saying, yet again, that CH is overpowered because of the pets that we can call, and we should be nerfed; when in actuaity, it will be the BE'd animals that are overpowered. But what will happen is it will be OUR class that gets hit again. I can hear the Devs now . . . "We had to bring you back into line because the animals you can control far exceeds the power of any player", as they neglect that we're not supposed to be able to control animals like that.

A BE'd pet should be no more than 10%, max 15%, stronger than anything of the equivilent level we can catch in the wild. This is something that NEEDS to be rectified, and soon. It's not a matter of being a CH purist, its a matter of if its not, our whole profession will go out the window yet again. We'll get nerfed to compensate for the overpowered animals, and be right back where we started.

Keep that in mind as you do your pet shopping, or discuss the power of the CH. We need to keep reminding the Devs that we are not the problem, its the tools provided that are the issues that they need to fix.

TsiyaAma

Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:33 am

#2

Well, I'd like to remind the Devs of that...only how to get them to read our posts?

Tsiya Ama-Valcyn
Tsiya Ama-Radiant
3 accounts cancelled as of 9/19/04

MrHawat

Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:57 am

#3

Yep, saw this one coming long time ago. BE and Dabblers will get us nerffed again. When those CL 10 pets are useful again, it will be the CH they nerf. Want to dicourage Dabbling? Redesign the CH skill tree and not the the FOTM skill tree. The Dev's tunnel vision is the problem. Why can a Novice Rifleman use the best rifle in the game? Same for most other professions. Funny, no one complains about Dabbling in any other profession only the one that the Dev's gave to the non-ch to compensate for the fact that they could not fix crap. What they should do with the "Balance/Nerf" is create a combat attribute for all pets. It would be similar to the Agro attribute. A non-ch can use a non-Agro, non-Combat pet. Allow some moderate resistances for mounts only and the rest are just pets. If you want your pet to fight/tank get the skill points.

While some BE's would scream bloody murder this might actually help their pet making side of the shop. If they think about it. There would actually be an incentive to go CH. This means pet stims and their creations would still have a market. It is not like just about half, if not all,the professions in the game do not rely on them for some be product now. Yeah, the non-ch's will scream when their killer CL 10 Durnie loses his abilities. Not as many as you might think. How many non-ch you see using even the Uber Franken pets now? It would be alot easier to reverse a bad decision now than when the community and the BE's begin to rely on them again. And, for God's sake, set a limit on the attributes that a non-ch pet can have and tell the BE's what it is if you can not code the limit into the process.

master77880

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:59 am

#4

BlindTyldak wrote:

I've been putting a lot of thought into it, and while I know many people don't agree with me, BE'd pets are what's going to keep us from getting fixed so that we're actually useful as a profession on our own again. Seriously, read through some of the threads on here. We're constantly reading about 12k CL 10 animals, people saying"I always hunt with my CL 68 BE'd buttpicker with 90% resists", or "My best animal is some insane thing that I should not be able to have".

I know that pet-checks is bugged, and so does the Devs, but they don't say they're going to fix it. The comparable power of the BE'd pet actually far exceeds the graul maulers of old . . . or it will in a couple of months.

Come the combat reballance, it's not the power of the CH that will get us in hot water, its the power of these animals. If we're actually ballanced to everything else, you know that people will be saying, yet again, that CH is overpowered because of the pets that we can call, and we should be nerfed; when in actuaity, it will be the BE'd animals that are overpowered. But what will happen is it will be OUR class that gets hit again. I can hear the Devs now . . . "We had to bring you back into line because the animals you can control far exceeds the power of any player", as they neglect that we're not supposed to be able to control animals like that.

A BE'd pet should be no more than 10%, max 15%, stronger than anything of the equivilent level we can catch in the wild. This is something that NEEDS to be rectified, and soon. It's not a matter of being a CH purist, its a matter of if its not, our whole profession will go out the window yet again. We'll get nerfed to compensate for the overpowered animals, and be right back where we started.

Keep that in mind as you do your pet shopping, or discuss the power of the CH. We need to keep reminding the Devs that we are not the problem, its the tools provided that are the issues that they need to fix.

LOL--that's funny. That CL 68 buttpicker is the only CL 68 buttpicker out there, but feel free to tame a CL45 Toxic Merek Battlelord, and then buy a CL45 BE'd pet--the best you can find, preferrably with the same "kind" of resists. Go out to your favorite local POI-XP farming location, and then try them one at a time, on several different enemies. Take good notes of the time it takes each one to either defeat, or get defeated by the enemy--also take note of the true amount of damage they inflict, and the amount inflicted on them. You'll probably find that the BE pet is exactly where it should be in terms of it's strength/effectiveness comparedto it's wild counterpart. In other words, give us numbers and screenies to support your call to nerfage. The Non-CH pet fiasco is well known to the BE community--I had someone /tell mymain today asking for one--I don't make them out of respect for my fellow CH's, and many BE's feel the same way.

I see these same posts about how BE'd pets are performing miracles, but it simply is not so--there is still a balance. In order for for us to max one aspect of a creature, often we have to forsake another to get a CL reduction. What a true CH does when buying a BE pet, is match the pet to it's planned use--ie. high HAM, armor, and 60%kinetic=TANK...however, that tank will probably have to give up accuracy, damage,and speed points in order to keep the CL within desired range, and probably even give it vulnerabilities in other resists. What happens is, one of these creatures does it's job against what would normally be considered overwelming odds for a pet not specifically desgned for this purpose, then the proud CH proclaims he has an uber pet, but if that samepet is used in a situation that it wasn't designed for--break out the stim packs.

BlindTyldak, please let go of your hate for the BE profession. We are your friends and partners in this dangerous galaxy, but like any profession, we have our bad seeds that will take advantage of the Devs' mistakes.

Vendor is located at -2628 5069 Mojovia City, Dantooine

Castillo

Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:29 pm

#5

BlindTyldak wrote:

That's the exact problem: our wild pets would likely be brought back into ballance. The BE'd animals would now throw that ballance completely out of whack again. Remember the great Mauler neuter, where everyone was a 3/2/0/0 CH so they could pull out two Maulers at the same time? If the tree had been adjusted along with the CL's as it is now, and Maulers left alone, we'd actually be pretty well off. But now people can have 12k, 60% resists, light armor, 400 damagewhatevers at CL 35. Who needs two maulers when you can have one of these? If CH is brought "into ballance" with these animals still out there, it will

have to be ballanced yet again; I have a feeling that would mean bringing ALL animals back down, putting us back at square one.

If the overpowered animals are repaired first, bringing them closer to their wild counterparts, then NEITHER class has much to worried about. BE's could make the better, tailored pets still, they just aren't as good as they were, while still being beneficial. We, on the other hand, don't have to worry about being hit yet again due to people misunderstanding the class.

Just noticed the forum monster ate some of my original post, no biggie, it sort of relates to your reply anyways.

We have to remember the problem is from the BE side of the equation. Its the BE crafting system that is bugged and you will find no argument from 99.9% of the playerbase that the 'monstrosities', and the fact they can be made in the first place,need fixing. The devs have had one crack at it but it wasnt successful, hopefully they will have another crack after the jedi are off the radar. The devs are not going to rebalance CH on the strength of a broken/bugged BE crafting system. Thats going about things in the wrong way (insert dev joke here).

Fixing the BE crafting system doesnt provide the magic pill for CHproblems. Fixing the BE craft system means BE will be fixed.

Just a quick comment about the CL system and issues about strength, remember thatthis issue affects wild animals also eg.compare your Grand Wrix to a Boar Wolf.

SioBabble

Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:48 pm

#6

The CL system is hopelessly screwed up, because it only takes the hitting power of creatures into account, not their tanking power.

Tanking power is what CH is all about.

Tazz vonMannstein Baron-Administrator of Corellia, master navigator of Corellia, captain of the Gregarious Gurreck

Sio Babble MBH/MCH/Cabana Boy; master of Tyson, the GNORT OF DEATH

Jeffn Akbar Nerfed from here to Lok MD/MCM

Zanti Agaesia Bothan MBE, 12 point Master Chef, Havoc Squadron Ace pilot

Aakhperkare

Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:17 pm

#7

I agree. But is any red name listening? I doubt it...

PurpleWarrior

Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:26 pm

#8

I (and a lot of other BEs) refuse to make the CL10 monsters that players ask for. I make a regular CL10 that has about 4K Health for people to use as a mount/tank. It has about 60 damage and maybe 14 kinetic resist. I don't see that as overpowered.

I have nothing against the Devs 'balancing' pets, they just haven't given us any clue as to what is a 'normal' pet and what is 'overpowered'

For CHs I make decent pets with good specials and can tailor the pet to what they seem to need. My most popular CH pets seem to be sort of CL30-40 and around 8-10K Health with 30+ Kinetic resists and Heavy Poison special. Most of them get Light Armour in the mix over CL34ish

I'm looking forward to seeing a lot more CHs in the game after the CB because it's good for business, and I like making the pets. I'll never get rich off the pets (I only charge 1K per pet level +10K for armour) because Tissues move a lot faster, but it's just so much fun

I suppose with more CHs about there will be more of a market for my PetStims though...

Ex-Combat Healer from Hell, FistFighter, Pokemon Trainer and Guntoter

Trying out Commando

MrHawat

Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:29 pm

#9

LOL--that's funny. That CL 68 buttpicker is the only CL 68 buttpicker out there, but feel free to tame a CL45 Toxic Merek Battlelord, and then buy a CL45 BE'd pet--the best you can find, preferrably with the same "kind" of resists. Go out to your favorite local POI-XP farming location, and then try them one at a time, on several different enemies. Take good notes of the time it takes each one to either defeat, or get defeated by the enemy--also take note of the true amount of damage they inflict, and the amount inflicted on them. You'll probably find that the BE pet is exactly where it should be in terms of it's strength/effectiveness comparedto it's wild counterpart.

Ok, let's accept your premise. Ch's that have been playing since beta are just dumb. Well the Toxic Merek Battlelord has these stats:

AR 1

Resists

Kinetic 40% Blast 60% Stun 50% Heat 60% Cold 50% Electricity 60% Acid 80%

Damage 370-560

CL45

Now, I have a close friend that made me two Narglatches with the following stats.

AR1

Resists

Kinetic 65% Blast 70% Stun 60% Heat 90% Cold 20% Elecitricy 90% Acid 90%

Damage 480-650

CL 35

To make it fair and the fact I can not call two TMB's I only used one Narglatch. In the wild the TMB was dead against a Picket Longhorn and Pepper took a while but killed the other with half his HAM in tact. Since Pepper has higher PVP resists except cold, I took a pass on doing PVP type combat. Unless you know of something that uses cold damage. Why waste a good TMB to prove the point. I may be wrong on the damage on Salt and Pepper. I just do not pay much attention to that. I am close however.

Go to www.swgcreatures.com and find me a tamable creature, at any CL with the stats of Salt and Pepper.

P9M

Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:54 pm

#10

I could not agree more. The BE uber HAM, Unter CL pets allowing Non-CH the mastery of being MCH is the most damaging thing ever. This is not attack on BE as a whole. The majority of that community agrees that a better system that is compreshensible must be installed. We as CH support the BE in this endeavor.

Blind this is a very brilliant post and you get 5 stars.

Kyreal

Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:59 pm

#11

100 percent with you blind on this.

i applaud the BE's out there that do not partake in the making of the "superpowered" non-ch pets of 8k and up ham, with 40-50 kinetic resists.

i frown upon the BE's that do, shame on thee for making my profession of choice worthless by making these creatures.

p.s. oh and lets not forget the "bugged" pets that are cl 0 that allow you to call 3 rancors out if you have them. all cl 0 pets should be deleted from the game heh.

Message Edited by Kyreal on 07-11-2004 01:00 AM

BlindTyldak

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 pm

#12

Castillo wrote:

BlindTyldak wrote:

That's the exact problem: our wild pets would likely be brought back into ballance. The BE'd animals would now throw that ballance completely out of whack again. Remember the great Mauler neuter, where everyone was a 3/2/0/0 CH so they could pull out two Maulers at the same time? If the tree had been adjusted along with the CL's as it is now, and Maulers left alone, we'd actually be pretty well off. But now people can have 12k, 60% resists, light armor, 400 damagewhatevers at CL 35. Who needs two maulers when you can have one of these? If CH is brought "into ballance" with these animals still out there, it will

have to be ballanced yet again; I have a feeling that would mean bringing ALL animals back down, putting us back at square one.

If the overpowered animals are repaired first, bringing them closer to their wild counterparts, then NEITHER class has much to worried about. BE's could make the better, tailored pets still, they just aren't as good as they were, while still being beneficial. We, on the other hand, don't have to worry about being hit yet again due to people misunderstanding the class.

Just noticed the forum monster ate some of my original post, no biggie, it sort of relates to your reply anyways.

We have to remember the problem is from the BE side of the equation. Its the BE crafting system that is bugged and you will find no argument from 99.9% of the playerbase that the 'monstrosities', and the fact they can be made in the first place,need fixing. The devs have had one crack at it but it wasnt successful, hopefully they will have another crack after the jedi are off the radar. The devs are not going to rebalance CH on the strength of a broken/bugged BE crafting system. Thats going about things in the wrong way (insert dev joke here).

Fixing the BE crafting system doesnt provide the magic pill for CHproblems. Fixing the BE craft system means BE will be fixed.

Just a quick comment about the CL system and issues about strength, remember thatthis issue affects wild animals also eg.compare your Grand Wrix to a Boar Wolf.

Then it appears that we agree in general, except on the issue of whether or not the Devs will "fix" us based on the broken BE system. Unfortunately, I do not hesitate to think that they would . . . their work on BH's recently has onyl proved that they are more than willing to not fix issues and ballance classes around bugs. If they can't figure out the BE problem, and if they could I think they would have, then they won't "fix" the BE, they'll "fix" the ones who use the broken animals.

As for the people who make the freaks . . . *sighs* I know, we can cry against the people who make them all we want, but if out of 100 BE's on a server 5 are making them, you can be sure the market will be quite active for those 5 people. Chances are extremely good that the general playerbase doesn't even know that they are created from a bug, because only about 10% of players participate in the boards actively. Just like always, it will be a few bad apples who ruin it for everyone.

Fixing the pets isn't a magic pill that would fix CH . . . but it is preventive medicine.

digiwrath

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:18 pm

#13

MrHawat wrote:

AR1

Resists

Kinetic 65% Blast 70% Stun 60% Heat 90% Cold 20% Elecitricy 90% Acid 90%

Damage 480-650

CL 35

y-...um.....kinetic cap on be'd animals is 60% dude.

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Thread: If BE isn't fixed, we don't get fixed.