CUEmu - Thread Posts

BlindTyldak

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:20 pm

Except the bugged ones. I saw one once at 74%, and told the guy to dump it quick before a CSR caught him.

BlindTyldak

Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:47 am

master77880 wrote:

LOL--that's funny. That CL 68 buttpicker is the only CL 68 buttpicker out there, but feel free to tame a CL45 Toxic Merek Battlelord, and then buy a CL45 BE'd pet--the best you can find, preferrably with the same "kind" of resists. Go out to your favorite local POI-XP farming location, and then try them one at a time, on several different enemies. Take good notes of the time it takes each one to either defeat, or get defeated by the enemy--also take note of the true amount of damage they inflict, and the amount inflicted on them. You'll probably find that the BE pet is exactly where it should be in terms of it's strength/effectiveness comparedto it's wild counterpart. In other words, give us numbers and screenies to support your call to nerfage. The Non-CH pet fiasco is well known to the BE community--I had someone /tell mymain today asking for one--I don't make them out of respect for my fellow CH's, and many BE's feel the same way.

I see these same posts about how BE'd pets are performing miracles, but it simply is not so--there is still a balance. In order for for us to max one aspect of a creature, often we have to forsake another to get a CL reduction. What a true CH does when buying a BE pet, is match the pet to it's planned use--ie. high HAM, armor, and 60%kinetic=TANK...however, that tank will probably have to give up accuracy, damage,and speed points in order to keep the CL within desired range, and probably even give it vulnerabilities in other resists. What happens is, one of these creatures does it's job against what would normally be considered overwelming odds for a pet not specifically desgned for this purpose, then the proud CH proclaims he has an uber pet, but if that samepet is used in a situation that it wasn't designed for--break out the stim packs.

BlindTyldak, please let go of your hate for the BE profession. We are your friends and partners in this dangerous galaxy, but like any profession, we have our bad seeds that will take advantage of the Devs' mistakes.

I've done just that, but at lower levels. I had a CL 16 khrabu named Dohnkee with 7k HAM across the board, 45% kinetic, and I don't remember his exact damage range but I know it was within the 200's, probably the low end . . . I think 200-230 would be a good guess. I took him for free off of another player who needed to free up space in his datapad. Now I know he's not even the best that can be gotten at that level; I think it would be pretty safe to call him at the middle to high end of average. For S&G before giving him to a Ranger friend I took him out hunting to see what he could do. I then compared his results to my Grand Wrix at CL 25, an animal that's considered to be the middle to high end of average for his CL, and whose stats are about equivilent to Dohnkee's.

They came out about equal, Dohnkee actually slightly edging out the wrix. At a 9 CL differential. THAT'S not right.

BE'd animals are made way too strong for their CL's, and on TOP of that, tailored to playstyle (yes, I know that's difficult, but its done). People aren't going to be watching the pet saying "wow, that's a strong PvE pet, I bet it sucks in PvP", they're going to be saying "WTH, just because I don't have CH I can't do half of what they do against lairs all over again" after the reballance. And who will take the brunt? The CH's, because the average player doesn't see it as "BE'd animals", they see "animals".

This isn't about hating BE's, this is about making sure that what's considered to be good for your class doesn't screw over your market in the long run. Ihave no problem with BE'd animals being better than wild-caught animals, as long as they aren't ridiculously better, like they are.

BlindTyldak

Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:57 am

#16

Castillo wrote:

BE'd pets are what's going to keep us from getting fixed so that we're actually useful as a profession on our own again - Important aspect here is what do you really mean by useful as a profession on our own? The upcoming (and 6 month late ) combat balance, with its nerfs to doctor buffs +armor, means itsvery likely that pets with becomeextremely usefulwith theirtanking/defensive capability. CH is going to get a relatively large boost in power. It will make a nice change seeing everyone get bashed with the nerf stick while CH remains untouched.

That's the exact problem: our wild pets would likely be brought back into ballance. The BE'd animals would now throw that ballance completely out of whack again. Remember the great Mauler neuter, where everyone was a 3/2/0/0 CH so they could pull out two Maulers at the same time? If the tree had been adjusted along with the CL's as it is now, and Maulers left alone, we'd actually be pretty well off. But now people can have 12k, 60% resists, light armor, 400 damagewhatevers at CL 35. Who needs two maulers when you can have one of these? If CH is brought "into ballance" with these animals still out there, it will

have to be ballanced yet again; I have a feeling that would mean bringing ALL animals back down, putting us back at square one.

If the overpowered animals are repaired first, bringing them closer to their wild counterparts, then NEITHER class has much to worried about. BE's could make the better, tailored pets still, they just aren't as good as they were, while still being beneficial. We, on the other hand, don't have to worry about being hit yet again due to people misunderstanding the class.

enigma_writer

Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:32 am

#17

I agree with you that some Bio pets are vastly over powered then what should be possible.

However a great bio pet can be just as savored as a pet tamed from the wild. I originally was a purest who never had bio pets because I always savored in the challenge in hunting for the hard to find tamable creatures. Then one day I met a master bio engineer while hunitng widows who was getting widow and arachne queen samples and told me she was trying to replicate the exact stats of an arachne queen in an angler body.

She told me she was having the worst time finding the static spawns and that if I helped her she would make it for me. I was finding at the time an average of 8 spawns a day and the added company would also be nice. We spent several days hunting the aracne and when she told me she had the highest oq samples she would stop and try to make it. After countless lairs she finally made a super spider that had strong poison, 570 dmg, and the exact same resists of the queen. For helping her collect the samples she gave me the spider which has been one of my most trusted pets.

Here is what they need to do to fix the this in my oppinion. Bio engineers can already sample anything under level 70. Why then cant Creature handlers have the opportunity to tame those same creatures whether they be ultra rare spawns or not. An arachne queen for example is not tamable but if it ever become tamable I would search endlessly for a baby because of their appearance and coolness factor.

As far as higher in advantage in pvp and not being fair I find that with the current system in place bio engineered petsdont last significantly longer in pvp. Maybe some pets have higher ham then others for novice ch but I do think that master ch should have the opportunity to use bio engineered super creatures. Maybe another way to fix this is to change the ability to control creatures based on cl. Like instead of basing it on cl, creature handlers would get a list of creatures they can tame and use as they get skill boxes just as bio engineers get different pets they can make as they get their skill boxes. That way you are not seeing novice handlersusingcreatures that should otherwise only be used bya master.

Also I dont think a bio engineer should be denied the ability to make super creatures because a really good oneis very difficult to make.

Milteck (BEAST)

Master CH

Rare Pet Collector

Leader of Galactic CH Guild _Radiant

digiwrath

Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:36 am

#18

enigma_writer wrote:

I Here is what they need to do to fix the this in my oppinion. Bio engineers can already sample anything under level 70.

lvl 75 and under.

mutant rancor dna is a staple of many bio-engineer recipes. though i hate it personally due to crap for blast and stun resists.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Rosebud peas. Full of country goodness and green peaness."

Digi Wrath - Master Ch forever

BlindTyldak

Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:05 am

#19

*rolls her eyes* I don't think expanding the abilities of one class as an excuse not to fix the bugs of another is the answer. Being able to tame up to Level 70 creatures isn't going to keep the other levels of pets from being overpowered if they don't fix the bugs. And I don't know where people are getting that these uber critters are so hard to make . . . when I go shopping for stims or non-CH mounts on Scylla, that's all I can ever find is the things.

raynedog

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:46 am

#20

I don't think we are likley to see to many changes to the BE system. I rember when they made some improvments to it the first time they said the code is very comlex and difficult. That is to say the formual for making pets os sp vast that it's extremly difficult to figure out exactly where the loop hole is that allows some of these uber pets. The simpliest soulution would be to put a final check, or a max stat range in for a certian CL, if you make a level 10 pet no matter what you use it will never exeed the max stats of a level 10 pet and so on. The hard part is you would have to have a range not a hard cap, so like level 1-10 cap, level 11-15 cap and so on. You could still possibly end up with an fairly uber level 11 pet that performs at the level 15 max.

I would like to see other proffesions provide us with some things. No one would go for this but it would be cool to see Armorsmith's make pet armor, Chefs make food directly for creatures and creatures only, stuff like that.

BE's deffinetly need looked at and during CB we need to make sure we let some of the attention fall to them as well so we don't get hacked again. Call me on it if I'm worong but didn't a RED NAME say that we are already CB as a proffesion and wouldn't need any balance?

MCH /---\ MBH /---\ MHS / --\ FS

master77880

Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:32 pm

#21

Rogue1970 wrote:

digiwrath wrote:

MrHawat wrote:

AR1

Resists

Kinetic 65% Blast 70% Stun 60% Heat 90% Cold 20% Elecitricy 90% Acid 90%

Damage 480-650

CL 35

y-...um.....kinetic cap on be'd animals is 60% dude.

Incorrect. A BE can take any creatures stats under CL75. With the DNA from a merek harverster they can create a Light Armor 75% Kin resist pet. There are no caps other than CL75 DNA.

See:http://swgcreatures.com/detail.asp?creatureID=381

I've never seen a BE pet exceed the 60% kinetic/energy cap...interesting. Our understanding of the way it works is that if the dna stats reach higher than the cap, it will still only max at 60% on the clone. Could you provide a screenshot? I'm also wondering what the HAM, accuracy, and speed of that pet is.

BTW, I don't think any of my fellow CH's are dumb, but given the current BE crafting system and the way in which CL's SEEM to be determined, a few may be misinformed. In the wild you get a pet with even HAM, this may be taken into account when it's CL was determined, but a BE pet could have a 12k health with only a 5k mind--this may also give us a reduction in CL as opposed to a 12k HAM across the board. Then there's the multi-generational sampling, where we can further specialize a pet--now this may be where the CL system's calculations are thrown off a bit, but I haven't been able to reproduce these uber results with just any dna, it seems to be a result of a bug when factoring specific dna...that may need fixing, but most of us would not call that a nerf, but reducing the effectiveness of our pets because you can't figure out how to FIX the problems--that's a nerf plain and simple, and many of you will get your wish, because BE's who love making pets, would consider that a slap in the face and leave the profession, and probably the game.

again, we need hard numbers and screenshots supporting this position--one thing bothered me though, a toxic merek battlelord lost to a piket longhorn?...I'm guessing you meant it was the 2 of your pets, individually,against a lair of pikets? If the merek was fighting multiple enemies, then it's possible it went down before killing a piket, but it probably did a good deal af damage that allowed the narglatch to finish the job. This isn't conclusive proof that the BE pet is overpowered. Keep in mind though that BE pets are supposed to have s CL bonus, meaning we can make better pets compared to a wild one with the same CL--for the most part I think our cloning system accomplishes that with few exceptions--it's unfortunate that those exceptions make the most noise.

Vendor is located at -2628 5069 Mojovia City, Dantooine

GFoyle

Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:38 pm

#22

Rogue1970 wrote:

digiwrath wrote:

MrHawat wrote:

AR1

Resists

Kinetic 65% Blast 70% Stun 60% Heat 90% Cold 20% Elecitricy 90% Acid 90%

Damage 480-650

CL 35

y-...um.....kinetic cap on be'd animals is 60% dude.

Incorrect. A BE can take any creatures stats under CL75. With the DNA from a merek harverster they can create a Light Armor 75% Kin resist pet. There are no caps other than CL75 DNA.

See:http://swgcreatures.com/detail.asp?creatureID=381

Sorry Rogue - that has never been true ofpets made post publush 6 - at that point hard caps were intrroduced which, amoungst other things, absolutely limited max Kinetic on a BE'd pet to 60%.

There were some issues with some DNA which produced the "mega" non-CH pets - many of the routes to these have been eliminated (the Voritor Dasher DNA was the main example). Although this bugged DNA did produce high HAM/low CL pets it never produced pets with resists higher than the hard caps.

Now I'm not denying there may be pets out there made before the publish 6 revamp that exceed the hard caps (I have a 650 Damage Rancor from that era), but there are 2 things that should be noted:

1.)They can no longer be produced.

2.) They aren't nearly as effective in reality as they are on paper.

The BE vs, natural "issue" is only really a "problem" with low level pets, most noticably the non-CH ones - SOE still need to put some work in there.

High level, BE'd pets biggest advantage is in the skins rather than the straight stats - you can make something with the stats of a rancor that moves like a Razor Cat (main reason I don't use the uber-rancor much - too darned slow).

I've been a Master CH/Master BE for nearly a year now. My most commonly used hunting combo is a Toxic Merek Battlelord and Crystal Snake both tamed from the wild (levels 45 and 25 respectively).

That ought to tell you something.

(And before the obvious reply - No, I'm not incompetant! I have no combat skills of my own and with those 2 can solo Rancor missions............)

CH's need to work WITH the BE community if this is really an issue.

(Edit: Removed a somewhat imflammatory comment which was uncalled for - apologies to any who read it!)

Message Edited by GFoyle on 07-11-2004 10:02 PM

Gully Foyle
All SOE game accounts cancelled - and this time I'm gone for good

Druarc_Cristar

Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:38 pm

#23

Lots of interesting reading here, I'm an old Beta player who left for a while and has just come back, currently trying to work my way up both BE (1/0/4/2) and CH (1/1/1/3) trees.

One thing we should note is even natural pets have hugh differences in CL, take a boar wolf and a crazed gurreck

BW 9K HAM 50%Kin vs CG 5K HAM 15%Kin both CL25 take a guess which one is used more.

But maybe an interesting solution would be to have the occasional natural pet with varied HAMs. How much more would you hunt for that 10k/7k/6k rare GSP?

Druarc Cristar (Zabrak on Intrepid)
Beta CH, pre-cu CH/Rifleman
pre NGE TKA/Swordman/Doctor/FS
post NGE Jedi
Mese Melar Intrepid - Weapons Dealer Retired
Druena Cristar Intrepid - Officer in training.

Rogue1970

Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:26 am

#24

digiwrath wrote:

MrHawat wrote:

AR1

Resists

Kinetic 65% Blast 70% Stun 60% Heat 90% Cold 20% Elecitricy 90% Acid 90%

Damage 480-650

CL 35

y-...um.....kinetic cap on be'd animals is 60% dude.

Incorrect. A BE can take any creatures stats under CL75. With the DNA from a merek harverster they can create a Light Armor 75% Kin resist pet. There are no caps other than CL75 DNA.

See:http://swgcreatures.com/detail.asp?creatureID=381

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Thread: If BE isn't fixed, we don't get fixed.