Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Discussion Topic: Know your Role
Vertexon wrote:
There have recently been a number of threads talking about what the "role" of the Creature Handler currently is in-game. I'd very much like to get more thoughts on this, so I'm creating this thread to focus the discussion. Here are a few questions to get the ball rolling:
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
to answer your questions:
1) I will not lie, soloing is best for me as you can see i can be tempermental and a hothead. CH/sniper provides the best oppurtunity to do this (pre T21/CH nerfs).
2a) we speaking of the profession as a whole must fill all those roles. For me personally my pet has to be an effective tank.
2b) Currently since TRANSFER IS BORKED only the master CH can make sales. SO it looks like we are combat, or merely trainers.
3) CH's arent group members, i know i dont speak for everyone but enough will tell you we are soloist. Right now i dont think a CH really does feel important, specials seem broke and surely you cant toggle back and forth if a special missed. Fixing specials. Putting armor back. a 1K ham TKM can tank 4 bull rancors, but my two graul maul stand no chance even against two graul maul.
Vert please give this forum a daily update atleast a hello. After a week summarize it back to us, go to the devs and give us the feedback.
1. The appeal for me is the creatures themselves. Just watching them attack and the animations.
2 and 3.The role used to be, as a member of a the group, the provider of the tank. However, we're in a state of transition now where creatures are not the tanks they used to be and PCs such as TKAs are. I am usually the one in my group who designates targets, even for the other CHs, mainly since I'm the veteran CH and I have the most actual expeirence (as opposed to CH boxes) as a CH. I decide what dies next, the other CHs defer to my judgement on what they take on...its' nearly automatic now. I take the first sharnaff bull out of the lair, they take the second and third. My pet usually is the one that draws the aggro for the group. When we're taking on uber critters such as krayts and kimos, the CHs are the ones who put their pets on the line to keep the prey engaged so that the PCs can use their specials to do the damage.
Ver,
a question I ask myself is what is the demand to be a CH?
1.well at one point we could supply mounts up to cl15 for no CH players....
- nerfed by the cl change and the introduction of vehicles.
2.to be able to tame and control animals that are benificial to a party.
- well, the BE can now produce far superior creatures the a CH should purchace to make him self more effective.
- ok, so I tame this creature now what? can't sell it to anyone, non-ch cl 10 remember. I can only use so many at a time anyway why do I have 22 pets in my datapad? so I show them off to my friends....
- why train it for a mount, the vehicles are here.
3.why tame at all?
- with the Holo grind there are MCH's who have to give up their pets, thus all I have to do is find someone willing to give me theirs and I'm set.
- oh, it the thrill of the hunt, no it's not, with the rarity of great baby spwans now, it really sucks... who wants to go out and tame 2000 dewbacks or cupas?
4. To have some cool pets in tow.....
- that only works if you have 3 cl 23s and a Master CH.
- well if I am going to be effective I want my high CL creature out because it will take the brunt of damage, but w/ the 'rebalance' my pets are not as effective.
I would love to see higher level control of CL :100 (keep taming lower)
Allow a Novice CH to have 2 pets out, so I can tame one without having to put away my gaurdian
Somehow rekindle the desire for pets as mounts.
Allow a tamed pet to 'grow' beyond a normal creature the longer it is owned, to balance you can subtract whatever when it has been incapped. This would allow for tamed pets to surpass BE pets over time.
Anyway those are my thoughts.
Alli, Novice CH
Vertexon wrote:
There have recently been a number of threads talking about what the "role" of the Creature Handler currently is in-game. I'd very much like to get more thoughts on this, so I'm creating this thread to focus the discussion. Here are a few questions to get the ball rolling:
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
Hello Vertexon,
For me:
1. The ability to find and Tame pets that will help me in game. Also enable me to Solo if I choose or group if I choose as well. If someone wants a specific and creature that I can get for them, it is nice to be able to go on a hunt and fullfil someones request, and If I make some credits doing it, all the better.
2. This is or has changed recently. At first when I became a CH, I felt it was a great combat class or should be. In PvE it was always a great Combat Support class as well as doleing out some damage and protecting me. When I was an Artisan and went out to harvest Meat and Hide or when I was out Sampling, to have my pets protect (Guard) me so I didnt have to worry if a rogue creature wanted to attack me. Tank is a good representation on what they used to be also. Now not as good of a tank, if special attacks work it would help. Also PvP and CH dont mix. Creatures are currently Useless in PvP. They die quickly and suffer vitality losses, which makes it difficult to even attempt to send a rare pet in. Usually Before I got my Rifleman Badge I would die Quickly as well and before I could call my pets off they would die like me. Pets Never deal any real damage in PvP, at least against anyone Non Newb. I have selected pets based on their abilities and resists to fight in PvP, Being a rifleman I have some good Mind Shots, some of the Diseases affect the mind pool some random. Would be nice if that thought worked.
3. In a hunting Group, I agree that we should provide support for combat classes. Though one would think that If a Master had a CL70 pet available to them, they should be able to deal out some damage as well. So Im mixed on that one. With the way CH is today, one really has no choice but to pick up some sort of Combat backup. Course to watch a Rancor fight a Purbole for instance and not Squish the whole lair does not seem right either.
Thanks,
Bostaka
Vertexon wrote:
There have recently been a number of threads talking about what the "role" of the Creature Handler currently is in-game. I'd very much like to get more thoughts on this, so I'm creating this thread to focus the discussion. Here are a few questions to get the ball rolling:
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
What is appealing most to me is the ability to tame so many types of creatures and have them as pets. Having them by your side. You grow attached to your pets and they become your companions, your friends. Sharing the fun of having a pet with others is a big aspect of CH. Now that we can't sell pets anymore it takes away from that aspect of our profession. We're creature tamers and trainers, so naturally we should be able to sell pets to people. That's why I think a plan should be devised for domesticated pets. Let the CH disable pets as attack weapons just for this purpose only---a pet and companion. Mounts are another way that we share our profession with others, but those aren't viable anymore either. The social aspect is a very important component of what CH is all about. All people should be able to enjoy pets.
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
Most of my time is spent enjoying taming and training my pets. I'm always getting new pets to enjoy. The roleplaying aspect is a big part of my play time as well since I spent quite a bit of time helping others in CH and showing pets to people. I sell pets (even though there isn't a market) in Corellia daily and always have a nice stock of different pets for people to see. I spend half my time getting the pets (which is complete joy) and the other half selling/sharing/roleplaying. The only fighting I ever do is when I am trying to get babies and this is where my roleplaying comes in, because I will not go on hunting missions where taming/training babies isn't involved. My character's morals won't allow him to go out and kill animals for no good reason and I roleplay that aspect, which takes people by surprise. I am also always happy (/mood happy), which lets people know that my profession is one of joy. I agree that CH pets have been nerfed beyond belief, but since I don't PVP and I only PVE for taming more pets it doesn't affect me as directly as it does others. The best thing about the CH profession is that pets bring people together and I've met so many people/acquired so many new friends just by roleplaying my character and showing my pets. That, in my opinion, is what CH should be about. Pets and humaneness toward them first and violence only when necessary. I have no interest in PVP, but I would like to be able to hold my own if I decided that's what I wanted to be a part of. Right now I'm neutral, which goes along with my whole non-violent roleplaying of my character.
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
A Creature Handler should be a support class in my opinion. He provides the pets to keep the target(s) busy while the meat of the party does the damage. In this situation the CH pets are decent because there is so much damage being directed at the target(s) that there isn't a real need for the former Graul Mauler power. When the power IS needed is when we are alone and working lairs, or in PVP. These two situations require heftier pets. I've heard that all fighting classes are going to be rebalanced to weaken them as well. If this is the case them CH pets may just hold a candle in PVP, but right now they do not. And CH pets do not suffice for CL40 thru CL50ish lair work. That is why the CH must rely on heftier BE pets. I don't use any of my wild pets for fighting anymore because they don't cut the mustard. So, in myopinion there has to be a boost in wild pets to their former glory or near. The dabblers have been squelched for the most part with the new CH tree and the powermongershave moved on. How do you increase pet power and not give it to mid and low CH's? Have the pets' stats grow with the tree. A pet should grow with the abilities of its master. Thus a Master CH should reap the full rewards of the pet's capabilities. In my opinion if you bring back more power for the pets (or the previous full power) but use a scaling system depending on the CH's skills, it would keep the power in the right hands while keeping new dabblers at bay. It's evident that more power is needed for the soloing CH and the PVP CH. We're outpowered by every fighting profession and we're outpowered by the wild creatures we face during taming.
Wow, well I have to agree with a lot of what Frelth had to say about the whole profession. I didn't get CH until after most of the nerffing was done so I can't really comment much on what it used to be like. However I agree our role should be allowed a better interaction with other PC's. The domesticated pet idea would be great, something like a non trained BE pet that could only be set in a house or something but with different commands and this should be a novice CH skill but as you move up the tree you should be able to domesticate better pets, of course some would be impossible to domesticate such as Rancor's and some of those nasties but this could be based off a ferocity scale of some sort or something. CH appeals to me because I love being able to tame creatures, and I love the thrill of getting each new skill to see what new creatures I can tame. The problem is there's a fairly low cap of CL 70 so this excitement will die at some point. I'd agree there needs to be a boost to the CL cap in MCH.
For the most part as a role I play the tank with my pets, however this has been somewhat decimated of late even though I didn't make CH until after the nerf I was at least able to use a CL 15 on my way to CH. I think something definately needs to be done about this, using a max CL 12 at novice CH is comletely bogus! Every other profession gets there best weapon at the novice skill, sure they have to gain their skills with the weapon but we need something to help us out too. I mean we barely have any commands at novice and then a CL 12 can barely survive hunting in the wild unless you hunt right outside the city which only increases the grinding aspect of the game. Now that CL's are spread throughout the tree I don't see any harm in increasing the base CL a CH can use especially since they're so weak now. I have to agree I have to use my bugged BE CL 7 Narg in order to hunt without having to rotate my pets every MOB. I think the CH plays a good scout role in a group however, being familiar with most of the mobs in an area from having searched for babies most people in the group take heed of what I have to say. My pet and I may move ahead to locate a good mob and then set up the battle strategy as well and I enjoy that role.
I think as state above our role should be similar to an informant however it seems that tracking goes to the rangers, I think we should also get a creature tracking skill to help locate babies and mobs as well. If there's a ranger in the group I feel my addition to that group is lessened because they're better equipped to do our job in some respects. I also think some of the creature information shouldn't be revealed to just scouts, maybe CH should be the only ones that can tell if a creature death blows. I mean we are after all the ones that deal with creatures day and night as a profession. Bottom line our pets definately need some sort of a boost at this point, even if they're planning on weakening the rest of the combat classes the scare effect that should come from having a Rancor should be carried into the game. However I'm loving this domestic pet idea, I would love to see something like that come along.
all MMORPG's have a "pet" class...
and like other games, the role of the pet is to supportit's owner, and the role of the pet-user is to support the group.
unlike other games, however, we don't have pets that heal, or mezz, or anything else like that.
what our petsdo have is ham....
What makes more sense? - A 10k ham pet tanking against a 10k ham mob, or a 1k ham pc tanking a 10k mob?
Obviously, the CH pets are the most logical "tanks" in the game - it just doesn't look right when a player hits a giant creature in the toes with his fists.
1. "pet" classes appeal to certain people - I have been the pet class in every MMO I was ever in, because I like it, not because it was part of a power profile.
2. pets, like wild creatures, are high ham / low damage... that means = tank.
3. contribution to the group = meat shield.
(I know that this is overly simplified response.... But, state effects, crowd control, commerce, damage, etc, are all to unreliable or insignificant to be part of what justifies our contribution to the group).
#2 role of the creature handler:
It was to provide Tanks to take the brunt of the damage in groups but with the nerf I don't even use my pets in groups anymore beacuse they just get in the way. I think the question has become what is the role of our pets. The answer is support for us or the people we sell them too (laugh here). right now the only support they can offer is combat and weak combat at that. Now Droid engineers can make droids that serve many funcitons Combat (please don't laugh) storage, crafting station, portable med centers. Why can't we train pets to serve these functions. Train a rescue pet that when used by a Medic with Diagnostics II or higher can run into battle and retrive the targeted incaped or dead player so the medic or MD can fulfuil their support position from afar. Train pets to be pack mules and store equipment, or carry weapons ( like the gungan army the pets didn't fight but they carried portable turrets and such) or a combo of these things. or give them tracking abilites to assist BH's or rangers. give pets as much variety of uses as they really have and not just mounts or attack. Also give pets attributes so that certain pets are better for some things than others, a dewback would be a better pack mule than a razor cat but the cat would be better at retrieving incaped players.
#3 our role should be to provide tanks to aggro the creatures as it has always been, I rember seeing how if we feed and treat our pets right they can grow bigger and stronger than wild ones and to this day since I became a CH back in august I have never seen it happen. Give us back some of our power make the pets do less damage, hell we do most of it anyway even as novice marksmen
Vertexon wrote:
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?______________________________________________________________________________
It's fun to have pets, especially one that can help you in a fight (i.e. partly for the aesthetics, and partly for practicality).
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Vertexon wrote:
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
______________________________________________________________________________
Tanking, status effect inflictors, and occasionally taming/training novelty/roleplaying pets. The CH fillstherole of "substitute player" better than any other profession -- i.e. if you need a tank and don't have a player to fill that role, the CH with a pet can fill the role fairly well. CH with good combat/supportskills is possibly the best solo character template in the game.
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Vertexon wrote:
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
Tanking, crowd control,status effect inflictors,extra damage -- all ofwhich they can do fairly well.
I know you didn't ask for it in this thread, but here are my two cents
IMO, the main problems with CH now are the fact that there are almost no wild creatures comparable to BE creatures, and there is almost no market for wild tamed creatures (both issues are related to some degree). There's almost no market for mounts now that vehicles have been added to the game, and the small market that exists basically belongs to BEs who can sellmounts on the bazaar -- a CH does need to train it at some point, but good luck makingmore than 1000credits a week this way
As far as the wild tamable creature issue goes, I thinkthe wild creatures eitherneed to be buffed up a bit (Rancor, Gurreck, Blurrg, Screecher, etc.), or the devsneed to add some other tamable pets like Frenzied Graul, Arachne Queen, King/Queen Harvester, and make the very rare babies a little more common.
Not sure I can add anything much different to the reason already given but I'll never the less throw in my two cents worth. The problems with CH that have especially risen after the last patch are well known so no need for me to belabor that subject.
1. Loved the idea of being able to go out into the wilds looking for and taming creatures (especially the high level and rare type) with the idea of using them to protect me in my journeys as well as being able to sell pets to others - as either fighting pets or mounts.I still greatly enjoy trekking cross country with my pets searching for the odd and unusual.
2. I honestly don't think CH has much of a role now in the game world. I'm being a bit extreme perhaps but other than that I have fun with the profession what purpose does it really serve? Well, maybe we provide ambience. Certainly I don't believe CH is needed as a combat role, so I suppose we've been relagated to a near non-combat support function. Except, maybe, in small group hunts - see #3.
3. In group hunts, pets are strictly support. A sort of Judas goat, if you will, used to lure creatures out of their lairs so that the pets will be attackedinstead ofthe group members. I think that's a good thing by the way. Pets probably are not that important in one of those mega-group hunts. You know, those groups where there are so many members you can hardly see the screen for all the members' names and you practically end up shooting each other 
But pets can help a small group take on higher level missions than would otherwise be possible. Though, I once did missions on Dantooine with a bounty hunter - iust the two of us. Not only didn't we need my pets, we hardly needed me. Heck, we didn't need me!
Say what you will about BH being too powerful, it was rather impressive seeing him in action. So, I guess the moral to that story is if you can't get pets to help out your small group, just get yourself a bounty hunter.
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
The appeal was (past tense) that CH was a good profession to solo in. I was a block or two away from being master rifleman when it became apparent after numberous clonings that I made the wrong choice for a wookiee. The creatures were cool, and some were even revered by the players. The money making opportunities at the time were good for CH. Pets were trading hands between CHs and non-CHs frequently. The abiltiy to make it on my own, the freedom to explore without being tied to a particular group, city, or planet made it appealing also.
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
Currently CH is mostly a tamer. We tame critters the BEs make. CH has little market for pets they can tame themselves. CH is sometimes called on to provide tanks in PvE, but it also takes someone dedicated to heal that tank now also. CH is also a big part ofthe "cool factor" in the game. Pets look cool, they act cool, mounts are still far cooler than a vehicle if you have the patience. In battle CH could be a status effect inflicter if the specials all worked. The ones that work (dizzy, blind, stun, intimidate) really seem to have little effect in PvE, so you can rule that one out. Right now I think CH is best at providing shields in group battle. I say shields instead of tanks, because the pets really are not the ones doing most of the damage. They are only there to take the hits. The players in the groupwith decent weapons and working specials for those weapons do the damage. These are what I feel about CH currently, they do not reflect what I think it should be or want it to be.
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
I covered this some above. In a hunting group a CH should be able to send in pets to distract and confuse the enemy while others can attack. Players want to team with a CH because they won't have to use stim packs and have much less chance of getting killed.Instead pets have to use the stim packs and the pets might get killed, but teaming with a CH puts that expense and responsibiltiy solely on the CH. If you can find a CH willing to make this sacrifice, the battle will be easier. The problem with this whole line of thinkingis that it limits CH to only being effective as a supporting member in a group. At Master, CH should be also be a soloforce to be reckoned with the same as BH or Commando.
Well for me, I started out as a scout / rifleman..but got tired of being beat on by every mob in the game due to warping and melee damage. So I naturaly went ot the CH profession for the pet distration factor as well as dropping riflemen and picking up pistoleer. Well that was some time ago.
Since Becomming a CH I have for the most part enjoyed the profession very much.,and have become very attached to my pets for a number of reasons. I enjoy thier company and thier protections when huntingalone.
When in a group I use my pets in a number of ways depending on the situation. I use them to draw agro for the group as well as to protect the weaker mebers and or any group member that gets in over thier head, by sending my pets to pull the mob off them giving them the chance to escape the inevitable incap or trip to the clone center : )
I can honestly say that I also love to search the wild on my own to look for and tame these pets, that I think is what endears them to me so much. I also never try and run my pets into the ground if it can be helped, I try and heal them afer every encounter to lessen the chance of them being killed ( vitality loss ) , and will go to great steps to do this. I am always in the thick of the fight with my pets, I never send them in and run away and watch them, That in my opinion is a useless act..( my pets are more than meat shields )
Del'Faan
Bria
Vertexon wrote:
There have recently been a number of threads talking about what the "role" of the Creature Handler currently is in-game. I'd very much like to get more thoughts on this, so I'm creating this thread to focus the discussion. Here are a few questions to get the ball rolling:
Ok, let's do this--but first, BE's do not make "better" pets than we can tame. A CL35 clone is supposed to have similar stats to a CL35 wild. If it doesn't, I hate to tell you, but it may be bugged. I've checked this numerous times myself--also MBE--and nine times out of ten, I'd give the edge to the wild pet. There is something to be said about how we can put a CL70 template into a dewback skin and have a uber mount. Customizing specials is also a plus. If you see a CL35 with ar1 and 60% resists, it should have other terrible stats inorder to bring that CL into that range--ie. damage under 100, or lower HAM--something has to bring that CL down to that level, because resists/armor, damage, and HAM are CL hogs.
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
Simple, pets are cool and a blast to tame--hehe, when you see a "(baby)" tag, you better get excited--or else you're in the wrong profession!LOL
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
Tanks, mission runners, resource harvestors, pet trainers. Well, we don't do anything "better", but we're definitely combat class. Tanks=in combat defense, mission runners=money for killing things, resource harvestors=meats, bone, hide we yank out of the corpse, pet trainers=we train them to KILL!LOL
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
In groups we make the first move that points to a particular target. Our pets draw aggro and allow the ranged group members a chance to do their thing. Tanks'R'Us...but if we want to truly be a combat class, our pets should be real offensive weapons as well. Let's be able to armor them and give them SEA's to pierce armor or raise their damage mod, subject to decay as anything else. This would also help those nonCH's get their CL10's up to a level that could take more than just one hit....maybe.
I'm all for making money from selling and training mounts, and also selling or trading amongst other players, but BE is the best choice for a pet seller. We simply don't have enough datapad space to seriously consider ourselves pet vendors...we can do it on the side though. Are wild creatures in demand like before?...no, but that's part of the change going on and we need to adjust--that's why I took on BE, and am considering opening another account for merchant or ranger type support. We simply can't have everything we want in one profession it seems, and it doesn't look like they'll be giving us more skill points soon--so we have to do something.