Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Discussion Topic: Know your Role
Vertexon wrote:
There have recently been a number of threads talking about what the "role" of the Creature Handler currently is in-game. I'd very much like to get more thoughts on this, so I'm creating this thread to focus the discussion. Here are a few questions to get the ball rolling:
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
1. CH for me is the chance to have a buffer between myself and death! the pets are cool etc but I am not going to do a "tivo" etc I will pay for mine (ie ones that keep up with my speeder as well)!
2. Soloist we can take up a combat prof wander on out and solo alot of critters (not the really high level ones).
3. I have yet to be in a group without a CH pet tanking even now a pet makes a big difference! as for our place i have no idea really I am just going to finish of mastering CH and see what i see I amy jsut end up dropping it!
) I just liked the idea of being an outdoorsy-rangery type guy with a big cat hunting with me.2. Which brings me to this part of the "poll." After being master ranger for about 2 weeks, I started getting quite bored with it. As far as I could see, my extra skill points were just being used up by extraneous things I didn't need. So I dumped all of the lines except tracking and started working on mastering pistoleer. This is when my creatures really came into their own. Before, I saw them as companions or just pets, and I'd go out of my way to get off-the-wall ones that no one really uses, but I liked because they added colour to my gaming experience. Everything changed as I started serious hunting. (No, not grinding. I really didn't grind to pistoleer, thanks.) Suddenly my GSPs and, eventually, my grauls were a HUGE help for me, thereby ceasing to be just pets, but suddenly essential as my protectors and guards. They were my tanks, my defenders, my distracters, etc.
3. Now that I've mastered pistoleer, and have decided to master CH, I look at pets a lot differently. When I'm not hunting solely to get CH xp (thank you, creator of enraged rancor missions!) I feel my place in a group is as a protector/tank. I stand off to the side, watching the combat unfold and sending my pet in when and where it is needed. If a creature aggros a rifleman for example, and everyone else is too busy to notice, I'll send my pet after that target, usually running in myself as well and using knockdown to give the guy a chance to get away, causing the enemy to attack either me or my creature, or better yet, both of us.
Please keep them coming.
1. My character (a roleplayer) grew up to feel close to nature and animals, wich made creature handler her natural choice of profession. Before nerf, i enjoyed taming pets, different kind of pets, not only tanks ( i still enjoy this all though no one buys them, i just release them into the wild after using them a little or give them away if anybody wants them) , like for exsample i tamed Horned rasps and other rasps and gave them away to people wanting them.
As it is now the rare babies has been my mission, in taming these and keep them for myself ( not wanting to sell a single one). I also roleplay a ch as i said so this is also why i choose to be one.I would all though like to see many many more rare babies, and hopefully some real bait of there for us to really look for. Also i would like to see rare babies spawn on every planet, so we could get the chance of exploring different planets. ( also like someone suggested in a different post, give us a chance to store more pets, for exsample in a zoo were wecant pull out the pets when were not there, and even displaying pets we have tamed, this is an awsome idea, and would also support the roleplaying behind this profession)
2. I fill in all these roles, except for creature salesman. I bring my pets into pvp ( all tho specials are clearly bugged), missions, just exploring killing random animals etc, harvesting and hunting with friends. And roleplaying. As it is now i would say chs would almost not compare to any combat profession, from being the strongest we did go down to being one of the weakest ( all though i am a big fan of ch) if specials wont work, wich leaves us out of this benefit, what do we really have? Alot of pets that can do nothing but tank wich they are not god at this moment. I feel the new specials interessenting and gives a whole new perspective to the ch profession, but witout them working properly, theres no point in doing pvp either 
Please please fix this.
3. We were used for tanking. I like the idea of pets beeing a dmg giver/specials with poison/bleed and a tank (not as good as it used to be) with for exsample spawns of frenzied graul babiesetc this would make things easier for us, we would have the chance of finding and taming a good overall pet that can both tank and give some decent dmg. Also what could be interessting is that we could choose between beeing tanks or dmg givers. As specials used for support in a different way than before is a interessting thought wich is coming alive with the rare pets and the other specials. I think we should atleast have one or two pets that is some better than the BE made pets, or i rather have several rare ones, so we dont have to see the same pet beeing used over and over by everyone ingame. I want variety and a chance to different choices.
Ok this was just of the top of my head-im tired and i know i have alot more to say just cant think of anything more right now.
(fix the buggs 
no more pets running away please make specials work )
As a Sniper/CH combo (because i want to solo) pets served as the distraction. I did the real damage, i ran alot of faction missions before i dropped Rifle. Even cons, pets sic, mindbleed...headshot....headshot....headshot......headshot. Dead.
Because my template was maxxed (atleast rifleman XP) i never fired a shot in groups. I stood back cycled mobs. I still demand that i direct combat in certain groups. Its how i feel safe. Plus as a Master Medic i am able to pick up fallen comrades how never listened or try to be the UBER by taking everything on themsleves or bleed all the mobs before the first on was down.
Now what i expect to see atleast before the new combat HAM comes into play, is more CH/Commando combinations. NO im not calling for nerfs. Truthfully and im going to get booed for this, the best scenario is 100% no dabbling. Eventually we will all be grouped anyway (sorry soe track record shows that).
I just think that theres is this really bad image that in and of ourselves we are uber. Its like people are saying, i want the most uber profession and i like my uber profession and since i dont want to change mine make them change theirs. We dont use enough skill points to be that Uber. When most if not all of us are specialized in a weapon. With atleast some healing skill. Trust me CH does not live by Pet Stims alone.
I mean for instance, my BH kills a graul in 3 direct hits to any ham bar with lightning2. Its over in what 18 seconds if they all hit the same one. If i fight now or even prenerf it was an epic battle even with mindshot3 1 graul on 1 graul.
And Scoutmastr im sorry to disagree but in another post you stated something like BE's could put CL 45 creatures in skins and they would effectively be 40ish. now if that means i can have AR1 60% Kinetic and Bettter HAM.....lesser damage may suck because i have no skills currently. but if im forced to group because i have my pets or your pets dontcha thing that lesser CL help. I cant call 3 GSP now. could before not whining but under your scenario its possible a BE could get me back to 3 GSP.
But now if your saying no, that CL45 is always CL45 and all you do is alter the stats one goes up another goes down i may think you have a point. Short of that im not certain that BE pets are effectively the same as wild ones. Thats not my complaint just a minor beef because i think one way or another your profession is getting misrepresented to us. But it does lead to my next recommendation. Which i believe is friendly to BOTH BE and CH. Rather than nerf CH and take Transfer away.
Vert another change that would fix things is this new idea ive seen someone post prior to me and i think would gain more popularity if both the BE and CH community could discuss it is the relationship between us. That will grow stronger the more freely the milk flows next patch. But again thats off topic, CH's should catch the pets and BE's should be able to make modification stims. Personally i would rather see these as permanent. This puts the CH back where it belongs at providing the pet. and allows the BE to engineer modifications stims that offer +1K HAM or +AR1 or +100 DMG or +SpecialAttackPoison. Im still trying to figure this out in my head. but i am offering it as a workable solution. How much a stat gets raised would be totally dependent on what mobs the BE samples. For instance if the Devs want to set a limit of +1K HAM then perhaps it should come from the toughest mobs in the game. And there could be special rules such as nothing can be boosted more than 10% of what its normal ham is. There is no fluctuation of CL and this prevents any exploit/bugs due to that. if you cant tame it or call it you wont get the effects. Other special rules ive thought about are if something has two specials now it cannot have a third. This limits that line of Modification Stims but it also limits a need to change CH more than necessary. Never sampled DNA or been a BE i dont know how much work this would require for the Devs. But i would like to see this BE/CH tension eased and i really believe this is the greatest compromise. If a BE is getting 50K like we once were for Grauls then there should be little change in the price of the Mod Stim because it would allow for change. Also, dont let Mod Stims stack.
Sorry long post. Just things somehow i believe that can fix a few rifts.
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
I'm in it entirely for the creatures. IRL I'm an animal person and in-game I get to handle very exotic types of critters. Being able tolive and hunt alongside them, in effect to become part of a "pack" was an incredible draw. On top of that, the exploration and the chance, however small, of coming across something unique or interesting and being able to show off my special friend to others was too much to pass up.
Not to derail the thread necessarily, but this has been the source of much disappointment for me. The variety of pets being what it is and the devaluing of wild-tamed pets really diminished my interest in the profession, and in fact, SWG as a whole.
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
Pre-December patch, I was the tank for most of my groups' hunting. I can do virtually no damage being a master Ranger/Master CH + some carbineer but I could do crowd control like nobody's business. Having 2 or even 3 decent tank pets at a time allowed me to maintain crowd control in ways that my commando or BH companions couldn't and that gave me a special place in a group. We could take on tougher or more plentiful "spawns" because I knew I could divide my efforts in an effective manner. Specifically the combination of carbine (action shot/charge shot) and CH allowed me to hold down a group of mobs, even if I couldn't really take them out.
Disease and poison would have been nice, but were never as effective as I would have hoped. I'm still surprised (pleasantly, but surprised all the same) when my Toxic Merek Battlelord actually *uses* his poison attack.
I'm not certain that CH has any more or less Roleplay to it than other professions and my primary function has been to run missions. Previously I could solo missions butin my experience I've always been more effective as part of a duo. Again, I can hold down agro and engage "adds" while my partner dishes out the real damage.
The lack of damage potential has never really bothered me. I've learned to deal with it, partly with how I structure my groups and partly with how I pick my targets and specials. I've functioned as a pet trainer to my friends but I've never really considered it my business. I tame pets primarily for my own use either in battle or for show, sometimes both.
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
I think I've been waiting for the Devs to decide this for me. I've been rolling with the punches as we've become tanks, status effectors, mount salesmen, etc. I enjoy my combat experience and I wouldn't want to devalue that, but it's possible there could be other directions which I would enjoy as well. If there's anything that's really bothered me about this profession it's the lack of definite direction.
Our combat value has gone down, the value of the pets we provide to other people has gone down and so we've seen "nerfs" of both the combat and non-combat varieties leaving me to wonder what it is we *are* supposed to be good for.
What made us valuable before was our ability to tank or hold agro from multiple targets. That was based on the previously phenomenal abilities of certain pets and is no longer entirely valid. We can still do crowd control, but it takes a big toll on our pets and consequently on us. I'm not sure entirely how to get back to that or if that's the direction we want to go.
Off the top of my head, maybe our pets should "decay" faster according to their resists? Similar to the manner in which armor decays based on how much damage it has absorbed or not absorbed, whichever way that works. It would let us have our highly resistive pets but also provide a limiting factor, providing us with a good pet but at the same time a disincentive to use it.
If not absorbing damage, maybe our pets should be doing more damage? The fact that our special and ranged commands don't work at all makes it difficult to assess what our abilities *are*, much less contrast them against what we think they should be.
I like the ability to use a versatile selection of pets to help me accomplish goals in the game. It allows me (to a point) to solo content, mostly mid-level at best, so I can play with my own NPC companions rather than wait all the time for a group to form and go out there. It enables me to feel better protected while exploring and hunting, and is also a blast to interact with the pets given the new touches to the profession (/pet reactions are AWESOME). Not to mention, the promise of new, rare babies to seek out (although the promise has been far from fulfilled, we still need more variety) lures me back out to roam the far reaches of the planets. It's also just impressive to see some of the finer creatures in the game under my command... my first rancor, my first kimogila, my first mantigrue screecher... all great fun to watch and use.
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat) does the CH fill better than any other profession?
Personally, my job in battle has been to inflict whatever states my pets are capable of (although this is VERY difficult to do with any reliability since my pets do not respond to my special attack commands), and provide a stable "tank" to help my group tackle harder opponents that would one or two-shot a PC in many cases. I also function as a pet trainer for non-CH pets (most usually mounts) and occasionally dabble in the pet trade. I enjoy using my pets as my companion from a role-playing standpoint, as I often have one or two of my smaller, less invasive pets out following me around, or sitting next to my chair in the cantina (/pet my BE narglatch and he sits down like a loyal friend). Because I am also master scout with some ranger skills, I use my pet to aid me in hunting to gather organic material for my BE account.
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
I feel early in the game we were overutilized, depended on to the point where it called down the almighty NERF upon us time and again, until we were hit to the point of near oblivion, but have finally come close to finding our place.
To make ourselves useful in a group, our newfound special attacks need to work on command. As a master, I should be able to command Special Attack One, Special Attack Two, Ranged Attack, and Melee attack. As I stated above, I cannot even train the Ranged Attack command on a pet that has any other special attacks. For example, my BE narglatch has Strong Poison/Strong Disease, Ranged: Yes. When I go to train it, I only get the ability to train Attack, Special One, Special Two. I do not get the option to train my pet ranged. When I order an attack, 50% of the time it will open by spitting, 50% of the time it will charge and melee, usually hitting with one of the two specials on the first strike but not always. However, my pre-patch BE blurrg has ranged attack and no other specials. While training it, I had the option to train it "Use Ranged Attack", something that had not shown up on the radial for any of my other pets, as all my other pets have at least one special attack. I assume this is a bug. I also assume that the fact that ordering my pets to use specials only results in a standard attack with no increased probability of executing the KD/poison/disease/dizzy/whatever is a bug. Please fix this, then we might be more useful. It looks great on paper, but it simply does not work.
Ultimately, our place in a hunting group should be to aid in combat with our pets, who help take the focus off the PCs in order to prolong our ability to stay in a fight and thus tackle harder combat, and to increase the overall combat ability of the group. To this end, we work mostly well, although we really need the special attacks and ranged attacks fully functional and commandable to really shine.
What if CH terminals were Tame and Deliver. I think that allows for more roleplaying aspect than anything. And it could be really annoying like and not give the WP. Combine that with with some XP like BH mission terms and Uber cash.
Do entertainers ever use their terms btw lol
IMPORTANT NOTE: Thunderheart has now started a "Know your Role" style feedback thread for each profession in the In Concept forum. I will still be reading through and compiling all responses here. But please do go post in that thread (even if you've already posted here). You have until April to post there, so take your time andgive responsesof the super high quality I'm seeing here, and we'll all benefit greatly.
I-C 1-6 Combat Roles; Creature Handler
There have recently been a number of threads talking about what the "role" of the Creature Handler currently is in-game. I'd very much like to get more thoughts on this, so I'm creating this thread to focus the discussion. Here are a few questions to get the ball rolling:
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
Message Edited by Vertexon on 01-20-2004 04:06 PM
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
Well Creature Handler is the first proffesion I even considerd.
Being able to go out into the wild and tame my own pet's
Such as the Rancor from the film, and being able to get it to obey/fight for me was one of the big atractions.
Being able to solo / explore
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
I would have to say that at the moment the creature handler proffesion is basically a Tank profesion, that does very little damage overall, if played all by its self.
The status effects are quite simply rather pathetic at the moment due to the fact that they dont work with any sort of reliability, and in some cases dont work at all.
And there certainly not likely to kill somthing all by themselfs, unless you have a rare creature with a good status effect.
In terms of roleplay we could do with far more control over our pets in terms of movement and posture, as atm it can be a pain to continously spam ( pet pet pet pet pet) to get a pet to sit or roll over.
Also when in houses etc, having pets sit inside walls and having to run around a room your self in order to position them where you want them is a real pain.
Creature handler as purely non combat or just for pet sales, would in my opinion completly kill the profession.
Were all used to fighting with our pets now, and it makes sense if you think about it.
Why else tame a wild rancor ?
So that it can make daisy chains ?
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
At the moment CH's place in hunting groups is most definetly using petsastank's for high level mobs.
Take that away and I cant really see anything that CH really contributes to grouping.
Though please bear in mind that a lot of us dont really want to group. We have had our fill of it from other RPG games out there, and its quite simply not new, doenst really apeal to you after your 1000th group mishion.
And I dont want to see SWG go the way of forcing grouping, just to make it viable to go out and explore a world and fight things that you come across.
In short I pay more than enough money for this game, put a lot of time into it, and dont want 90% of my ingame time dedicated to finding other people to group with.
As many people have said, I also am a CH that plays this role because I don't want enforced groups and prefer to play solo. Having pets for companionship and helping me to survive in the wild allows me to play the game solo.
I group with my guild a few times a week and because we all know each other very well that works well. But if I have to group with people I don't know just to play the game then that will be the day I leave SWG.
I also make most of my money from selling pets and rarely do missions. I might take some missions just to locate lairs of things I'm interested in but will then tap the lairs for babies and if none found will move on and forget the mission.
CH is meant for solo play and if the DEVS alter this I go.